Bofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1374 times:
He was a communist and a terrorist.
Even USA (!) had him on his "list" as a terrorist.
But now is he USA:s friend.
That is what USA usually does when it suits them...
It is interesting that we call some freedomfighters and others terrorists...
Bofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1342 times:
So tell me why Mandela is a freedomfighter and the people who is against USA in Iraq is terrorists? They are doing the same thing that Mandela & his boys did... And pls try to be serious and not so PC!
Bofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1337 times:
What will you call the USA troops in Iraq then? Invading a country. Would you not try to do something against that if it was in Germany? And about the website: Is something about SA not true there???????????
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8394 posts, RR: 47 Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1333 times:
Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 7): What will you call the USA troops in Iraq then? Invading a country.
Let's just not get into that. Iraq has nothing to do with Mandela.
Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 7): Would you not try to do something against that if it was in Germany?
Being that we have a democratically elected government, are a NATO member country and never wanted to get WMDs, that comparison is a little bit out there.
Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 7): And about the website: Is something about SA not true there???????????
I checked out their homepage, and I'm not going to read that article. If I want bad stuff on the internet, I'll have a look at RSmith's rants, or discuss Catholicism with TACAA320, or gun laws with L-188, thank you.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Ibhayi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1299 times:
Do you know anything of one of if not the greatest man in history?
He never was a communist, he never joined the communist party, he helped draw up the freedom charter which was capitalist in nature, and supported equality and freedom for all.
One man one vote.
In 1984 dick Cheney voted against his release from prison, but no Nelson refused a conditional release from prison, until his demands where met.
He walked out of there after a total of 27 years in prison and said "I forgive you, lets make peace and move on"
After the apartheid regime shot 15 year old kids in t he back, beat people to death and tortured them, they non violent protests of the ANC and other movements, if it be black or white were always met with violence.
Mandela then formed the MK, the armed wing of the ANC, to bring the nats to the negotiating table. Which it did, and South Africa is a better place today than it was under them, was the MK then important yes. Its the same as any other tyrant, such as Hitler and Stalin. Just with Hitler the world stood against him and no one in t he world originally backed Nelson and the ANC because they never understood their ideas and ideals. Eventually the Dutch were the first to impose sanctions against South Africa.
Nelson does say he advocated violence to bring out a peaceful end which he did, fight fire with fire which worked. Once it had run its course he said no more, and the very allies of the united states kept killing people in informal settlements to disrupt the peace process.
Nelson also said I'm surprised I won the Nobel price after I had set up an armed wing.
Im a white male and he fought for me, he fought an oppressive regime for the collective peoples of South Africa. He is still on the US terrorism list, has never been taken off, he is a head of state hence he is allowed to visit and now ex head of state.
Those pictures you see are very biased, white 27 year man can shoot a black girl in her back running away from police, kill her, and then be awarded a medal? Get real, you are completely oblivious to the truths of Nelson Mandela and t he situation in South Africa, do your self a favour and read his book.
Ibhayi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1293 times:
Nelson Mandeal seperated from Winnie mandela long before she said that, about the matches, he infact called necklacing an inhumance and cruel method to do anything.
The armed wing he set up never meant to kill any one but rather perform acts of Sabotage, blow up a rail way line, cut down a powerline, cause disruptions and not kill people.
The necklacing was done by black people, who were in conjunction with the nats in some cases, in others Nelson told those kids and people doing it to stop and the kids to go back to school otherwise the peace process will fail. Bet you never read that did you?
He never once said, "lets put tyres on people and burn them" and those pictures are true, you ever seen the Hector Pieterson photo?
He has the most awesome presence in the world, he obtained a university degree in a system that was designed to make him fail, people refused to lecture him cause he has black and he earned his degree. He has had to fight for everything in his life and achieved it.
Soyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 593 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1280 times:
Ibhayi, do you know if online there are transcripts of his 1962 trial? According to right-wing (and more often than not, racist) websites, Mandela told the court that he was in fact a communist. Talking about "we communists" etc. These same right wing nut websites (including the one in the thread opener) also talk of his hand written 'manifesto' with a section called "How to be a good communist", although a search of this document only brings results from these same right wing websites.
Ibhayi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1264 times:
ah propaganda, he used the words, comrade a lot which people missed interpretated as communism, but he used it as a collective word for people in the struggle.
he never spoke in the 1962 trial, it was walter sisulu and their lawyers, one recently awarded a controversial doctorate from a "right wing" south african university.
he did make notes, but I dont recall them ever being released the propagnda from the aparthied regime was so over the top at times it bordered on not stupidity but insanity.
He in court did many daring things, arriving in traditional gear to intimidate the judge, not that trial but one prior. They were labelled as being communist in that trial and hence the term us communists. if they quoted it i dont know, but they were refered to as the communists, so i suppose only fitting.
He is a staunch capitalist as outlined in the freedom charter and the ideals of the ANC youth league and MK all of which he was instrumental in setting up. As I said is his introduction to politics was through a communist but they went their seperate ways, that man retired from his job to give nelson the opportunity progress at that law firm so he could study. Thanks Radebe.
I would have to look up exactly about the trial, i cant recall it off hand.
His successor Mbeki, studied in russia under communism and so do a few other people, they all are firm capitalists yet have I belive Mbeki may have certain communist undertones, which I belive are very positive ones. Such as he doesnt have a speech writer but writes everything him self and the rule of his cabinet with an iron fist, I firly agree with, hence the sacking of Jacob Zuma.
I would find it very unlikely there would be many original transcripts of the trial still available, or ones claimed to be original but altered.
Remember that nats at a rally he was at, confiscated everything including meal signs that said, meat and non-meat for the soup, and that appeard in the court case. What soup with or with out meat has to do with communism I havnt quite figured out, but it came up there as they said it was a communist meeting.
Springbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1240 times:
Dude...looking at your other post - "Is SA a democracy"...blah blah...looks like you have some serious issues with SA. Mandela is a popular guy because to all the common people he was the one who liberated them from Apartheid. Simple.