Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Appalling "London - Americans And Muslims Comment"  
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1700 times:

Tonight is one of the very few times I regret reading a thread. I checked the first 35-ish replies, and was truly appalled by what I saw. Is anyone else sick and tired of the hatred that's growing between American right-wingers and Muslims? Do some people really have to spread this nonsensical "Nuke 'em all!" hogwash?

Basically, I'd like to know if anyone else is scared, and I mean that by these people. I'm kind of losing my "it'll get better" attitude I had towards the extremism in the US and also the Middle East because there seems to be an increasing amount of Americans (and a couple others, too) who really mean what they say, and maybe one day their talk will no longer be nothing but cheap.

So, am I scared for a reason?


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

Not trying to be disingenuous at all but why would a German be scared? Especially if some renegade US citizen(s) carried out some sort of terrorist attack on the ME?

If you have to be worried about anything I'd worry about the next bombing happening on your soil.


User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

You're scared because as mentioned in another thread, the terrorists are winning.

User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

No reason to be scared, its just the internet. I don't think that you can generalize Americans into "right-wingers" because of a few threads, nor can you accurately gauge that "there seems to be an increasing amount". The US has a huge moderate base that will always stabilize politics (which have always swung to the left and right like a pendulum). Lastly, thank god we all have responsible leaders in charge to make those decisions for us. spin 

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1677 times:

Well, I think that there are a lot of people who are concerned about the widening relationship between the Muslim/Arab and Western world. However, these people don't usually stand out when it comes to speaking. The news will always concentrate on the ones that stand out, hence you hear and take more notice of ignorant phrases such as "Nuke 'em" etc.

I think, epecially as my generation comes to fruition, the situation will be better. We just have to get the conservative/old people away from voting. Unfortunately, the older people in the US basically determine US policy on many issues, because they have the power. They have the power because they are the ones in the country that have the highest voter turn out, which is sad, because many of them have never been exposed to EVEN the internet. They are usually very conservative and fundamentalist about certain things.

The conservative party in the US really benefits from the senior citizen voting republican, but I'm afraid that until these people die off, we will remain conservative, internationally ignorant, and a "Christian" state. Older inviduals have a hard time comprehending a lot of things that we as a younger generation understand. Their ideologies are antiquated, and they tend to hold religion higher than politics, and in fact, many would like to combine religion and politics more than what it is today. Which is why I think you are seeing a lot of this rhetoric going back and forth. Nuke 'em, kill 'em, all this stuff is just plain ignorance because the fact is, they really don't understand the dynamics of the middle east and it's relationship with the rest of the world. And it's very easy for them just to say, nuke 'em, rather than contemplate the situation and make a proper analysis.

Of course, many times, these seniors have passed their "ignorance" (i don't mean they are stupid when saying this, I just mean they really aren't aware of a lot of new ideologies and ways of life), to their children, and their children to their children. But, a positive trend I've seen in the US is that more and more people are going to college, and the college grads are coming out of school now with more progressive and liberal ideas that require them to think more broadly.


UAL

[Edited 2005-07-10 03:24:55]

[Edited 2005-07-10 03:27:28]

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1672 times:

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 1):
Not trying to be disingenuous at all but why would a German be scared?

US foreign policies affect everyone, be it directly or indirectly. Secondly, if you check my location you'll understand why I'm a bit more concerned about US-Mid East relations than the "average German".

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 3):
I don't think that you can generalize Americans into "right-wingers" because of a few threads,

Sorry if it sounded like I'm doing that; the thing is I hear more and more about religious/nationalist/whatever extremists in the US. That's what's bugging me.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 3):
The US has a huge moderate base that will always stabilize politics

I sure hope it'll not lose that base, which is the one thing that still makes me think it'll get better in the future.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 5):
Secondly, if you check my location you'll understand why I'm a bit more concerned about US-Mid East relations than the "average German".

What's the significance of Heidelberg? US Base there?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 5):
I hear more and more about religious/nationalist/whatever extremists in the US

I'm sure your media is just as guilty as ours when it comes to sensationalizing stories. And the internet (especially this forum) is not a good place to get majority opinions about anything. I wouldn't think much of Germans if the only opinions I had of them came from A.net


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1647 times:

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 6):
What's the significance of Heidelberg? US Base there?

US Army Hospital right accross the street, two huge barrack compounds (one of them the NATO headquarters) plus a US Army housing compound within the city limits, Patrick Henry Village (huge US Army installation) a handful of miles away, loads of GIs, US and other tourists flocking the centre and the next city with US installations (Mannheim) not even half an hour by train away. I don't know the number of US citizens living in the area, but it's in the tens of thousands.

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 6):
I'm sure your media is just as guilty as ours when it comes to sensationalizing stories.

Can only hope it's just sensationalism...  Sad

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 6):
I wouldn't think much of Germans if the only opinions I had of them came from A.net

 ziplip 



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineWunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 6):
And the internet (especially this forum) is not a good place to get majority opinions about anything.

Why?

Ok, aviation enthusiasts may not be your "average Joes" (whatever that means), but who is? What is the definition of the average citizen? Isn't it an aggregate of unique "profiles" and opinions?

Another point is, because a.netters *tend* to be more travel-oriented than the *average*, one could assume that they might have seen a bit more of the world than the so-called *average* people.

What I am saying is there are quite a few educated/experienced people on this forum whose opinions about any subject would be worth reading/listening. These people have travelled a lot, worked all over the place in multicultural environments so their take on politics certainly has value.

If they sense that there is a significant swing of majority opinion towards one particular end of the political spectrum, it might very well be true.

Well, just my two cents...  Wink

Cheers.


User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1624 times:

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 8):
Why?

Ok, aviation enthusiasts may not be your "average Joes" (whatever that means), but who is? What is the definition of the average citizen? Isn't it an aggregate of unique "profiles" and opinions?

Another point is, because a.netters *tend* to be more travel-oriented than the *average*, one could assume that they might have seen a bit more of the world than the so-called *average* people.

What I am saying is there are quite a few educated/experienced people on this forum whose opinions about any subject would be worth reading/listening. These people have travelled a lot, worked all over the place in multicultural environments so their take on politics certainly has value.

If they sense that there is a significant swing of majority opinion towards one particular end of the political spectrum, it might very well be true.

Well, just my two cents...

I think you're absoluetly right. It's also a hostile (but nevertheless interesting) mix. Most of the peple who post here are much more opinionated than your "average Joe." But it is the average Joes who carry the most votes, and thus elect our leaders.

If we held a presidential election here where only A.netters voted odds are it would be Pat Buchanan vs. Ralph Nader. I'm not sure which would win. The results of said election would be disputed and somehow the "Airbus gets subsidies" argument would somehow play into determining the outcome of it.


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1624 times:

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 8):
Ok, aviation enthusiasts may not be your "average Joes" (whatever that means), but who is? What is the definition of the average citizen? Isn't it an aggregate of unique "profiles" and opinions?

Good point. However, it does take a certain type of person to comment on A.net threads. A majority are males for one. While I do try to respect others opinions (I have to try very hard sometimes) it does take a certain type A personality to comment and have agrumentative conversations with people around the world. Usually people who don't mind stating their opinion to others that they aren't really acquainted with are going to be a little pushy about it.
Most sane people wouldn't waste their time in back and forth banter that will never achieve anything. I don't mind though. 

[Edited 2005-07-10 03:48:26]

User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1617 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 10):
Most sane people wouldn't waste their time in back and forth banter that will never achieve anything. I don't mind though

Amen  biggrin 


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1616 times:

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
Is anyone else sick and tired of the hatred that's growing between American right-wingers and Muslims? Do some people really have to spread this nonsensical "Nuke 'em all!" hogwash?

I explained my answer above, but I do want to make one more comment. All stupid, ignorant people aside, I'm sick and tired of all the hatred that the Islamic Terrorists are causing between nations who have long been friends. . They are really pissing the world off, to say it bluntly. They have destabilizedd realtions with Europe and the US, they are constantly controlling international policy, and this is just with a small percentage of what they are probably capable of.

I hate seeing the Europeans and the US members on this board fighting. We are a strong alliance, and always have been, but when we fight back and forth, call each other names, etc., the terrorists are getting their way. They don't want us to be friends. If you can look past the bombs, death, and destruction, it's personal. The terrorists want the entire world to hate each other, because when this happens, there will be huge chaos, which is what they want to cause.

It's sad to see the US and Europe fight when we are the leaders of the free world. It should be us together fighting against terrorism. No, I don't know how to fight terrorism, but as a collective, we should fight in some way for our right to live as a free member of this world. No one should be robbed of their freedom.

UAL


User currently offlineBudyboy From United States of America, joined May 2005, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1595 times:

This is such a complex issue. I, an American, lived in the Middle East for years, and have a bit of understanding of the place. Religion, ideology, whatever you want to call it, is a similar divider in both regions, and also in the US and Europe. Even within the US, the Red/Blue divide.

Humans really do divide into camps; if they aren't fighting worldwide, they will fight locally. Even the Muslims, the Shia'a, Sunni tribes, (and that's not even including the heretic Sufis......and here we now have varieties of Christianity, Catholocism, etc.)

This is the Human Condition. Call it what you will. Artists are the ones who really explore this, trying to hold the mirror to the face of reality.

And we, the lucky travelers, get to go outside ourselves to discover, and ride on very cool planes along the way.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1585 times:

Aloges, I have to agree with some here that you can't generalize with such broad strokes.

The pendulum of American Politics has swung to the right and begun it's fall back towards the middle . . . how do I qualify this statement, simple. . .

Recent polls in the US stating discord with actions in Iraq

Recent polls in the US stating utter contempt for the partisan politics in the House and Senate.

Recent election (2002) where a popular and sitting Senator (Daschle) was routed from office.

Current polls showing a certain Senator from Texas about to be out of a job for being a crook . . .

It's swinging back to the middle - not to fear. Unfortunately, perpetual motion will take to the other extreme again . . . and off we'll go back on the same cycle.

Might I remind you there are just as many left wing liberals on this site that would simply cut and run and let the Terrorists do waht ever they damn well please . . .

I don't see a trend either direction. I see the same people, with the same rhetoric blaming the same people and playnig arm chair general, or president, or king/queen or whatever . . .IMHO, it's SNAFU - status quo.

I understand your concerns about being in Heidelberg, my friend . . . . . since you're there, drink down a Bitburger or three for me please  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Might I remind you there are just as many left wing liberals on this site that would simply cut and run and let the Terrorists do waht ever they damn well please . . .

I'd bet there is not one poster on these boards that opposed the US going into Afghanistan. Or opposed what was done in the Gulf War I.

This is the definition of "liberal" these days. Anyone who has a problem with any US led war for any reason. We could have invaded Canada and jetjock would be on these boards talking about how "communist" and "dangerous" they are.


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 15):
This is the definition of "liberal" these days. Anyone who has a problem with any US led war for any reason. We could have invaded Canada and jetjock would be on these boards talking about how "communist" and "dangerous" they are.

What a baseless, uneducated thing to say. I'm a liberal, but I am nothing the way you describe me.

What I get so pissed off about is, there are relatively very few a.netters who express their opinions, given the large a.net population base. Usually people with strong convictions be it one way or another, are usually the ones who post. Thus, you only see the extremes, not the general populations. The US makes judgements on Europe because of this, and Europe does the same for the US. There are a lot of unheard opinions out there, so I'm very wary of drawing conclusions about an entire country, political party, or ideology based on what I read in the media, and here on a.net.

Chill out PadC.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 15):
I'd bet there is not one poster on these boards that opposed the US going into Afghanistan. Or opposed what was done in the Gulf War I.

Agreed. I think you're right - I also think we shortsheeted ourselves in Gulf War I, but I was but a lowly Brigade Master Gunner then  biggrin  . . .

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 15):
We could have invaded Canada and jetjock would be on these boards talking about how "communist" and "dangerous" they are.

 rotfl  I always keep my shotgun loaded in case some Canuck in Whitehorse goes on a rampage and decides it's time to take out Delta Junction, AK!  rotfl 

Seriously though, Padcrasher, there are only so many members that actually post opinions here . . . it's the same hundred of so out of the Thousands of A-Netters. Can you, or Aloges, or anyone else actually believe that this represents the whole of US population? Such broad stroked opinions are ludicrous . . . and dead wrong.

It's no secret I didn't oppose Iraq, but it's also no secret I think we've made some mistakes there. Do you include me in your population of Right Wing Neo-Conservative Nut Jobs that thinks war is glorious (said with kind of a Klingon twang to it)?

As I said earlier - there are both sides of the fence here in A-net - and a VERY small number of people, the same peoplem - that banter about opinions day in and day out. It's the view and opinion of a very few in terms of the grand scheme of things . . . I don't think it's anything to get overly worked up over . . .

Since we're tossing out labels I'd say, Crasher, you're definitely in the liberal category, but not so far gone, you're not salvageable  biggrin   wink  silly 

Not to worry - the pendulum is swinging . . .


User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
So, am I scared for a reason?

Yes it is scary, you are not the one that shares that view. However my advice to you is to not get involved in those discussions. I haven't opened a single one after the first day. What I read in there was shocking and I have no intention to read bullshit like that any longer. But I agree with you wholeheartedly by the way!

Quoting EGGD (Reply 2):
You're scared because as mentioned in another thread, the terrorists are winning.

No, that's now why I'm scared. The other people making comments like "nuke em all" scare me more.



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlinePerthGloryFan From Australia, joined Oct 2000, 751 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1431 times:

Bloody media - here's a take on recent events and how it was reported, from the other side of the world.

In this context "abc" = Australian Broadcasting Corporation

http://www.abc.net.au/correspondents/content/2004/s1410257.htm

PGF


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4368 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1428 times:

Truthfully, I wouldn't take most a.netter political commentary very seriously - much of it is very shallow, too "ideological", or based on an overly narrow and immature view of the world. I find maybe 20% of the commentary worth reading, and the other 80% an insult to my intelligence....


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineBezoar From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 807 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1406 times:

MD11Engineer shared this link http://www.sftt.us/HTML/article07072005a.html in another thread: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/873215/

Though it's rather long article, I think it bears reading by anyone who wants to have some hope for peace.



"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1372 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
Can you, or Aloges, or anyone else actually believe that this represents the whole of US population?

Oh, certainly not. However a.net non_av is the place where I first heard about Southern Baptists, Jerry Falwell and so on, so it makes me read up on a certain amount of US originalities.

Anyway, thanks everyone for providing a different point of view. The reason for this thread was the flame throwing (or verbal nuke throwing) in the other thread, and it's been put back into perspective. Case closed as far as I am concerned.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1363 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 22):
Oh, certainly not. However a.net non_av is the place where I first heard about Southern Baptists, Jerry Falwell and so on, so it makes me read up on a certain amount of US originalities.

Oh, *EN^#BF83b, I'm sorry you were subjected to that fruit loop. Clearly, and wholely, NOT a decent representation of the US . . . I'm really sorry about that - but hey, it takes all kinds doesn't it. Weren't for him, we'd have less to bitch about.  biggrin 


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1357 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
Clearly, and wholely, NOT a decent representation of the US

Certainly, but a select minority seems to actually think like him - that's my problem.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
Weren't for him, we'd have less to bitch about.

 bigthumbsup  At least there's someone we can all bitch about!



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
25 SATL382G : That's about the most ignorant thing I've read on a.net yet. The older generation is responsible because they vote -- what a crock. Ideology on the i
26 ME AVN FAN : - Terrorists inevitably sometimes succeed, unfortunately. But that does NOT mean that they "are winning".
27 1MillionFlyer : Sorry, but the "younger" generation proved in the last election they are not too concerned about our government. Less than 1/2 of voters 18-25 bother
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
London - Americans And Muslims Comment posted Fri Jul 8 2005 22:02:43 by Padcrasher
London Times "The Ties That Bind EU And Usa" posted Sat Jun 15 2002 02:17:49 by PanAm747
US "arrogant And Stupid" In Iraq posted Sun Oct 22 2006 16:06:29 by Gkirk
Expect A "Real And Cold" Winter Across The USA! posted Tue Aug 29 2006 01:53:33 by NWDC10
How Hard Is "copy And Paste"?!1! posted Sun Jan 29 2006 00:02:09 by Pilot kaz
Al-Qaeda Warns London/U.S "More Attacks To Come". posted Thu Aug 4 2005 18:19:01 by BMIFlyer
FOXNews: London Attack "Works To Our Advantage" posted Mon Jul 11 2005 19:07:41 by Tbar220
Syria:"suicide" Victim Brother Now Also "suicided" posted Fri Nov 10 2006 12:15:20 by Kay
"I Refuse To Wear Clothes" On Jerry Springer posted Thu Nov 9 2006 13:35:26 by Shinkai
"Flaqs Of Our Fathers" posted Mon Nov 6 2006 17:22:00 by PJFlysFast