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British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa  
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1449 times:

The British top Islamic leaders are about to issue a fatwa condemning the terrorists. So far the content is not known, but it could mean an instant excommunion of the terrorists and radical supporters and break down the "fellow Muslim, right or wrong attitude" adopted by many Muslims so far.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article298109.ece

Jan

Edit headline because it was too long

[Edited 2005-07-11 18:13:47]

[Edited 2005-07-11 18:14:05]

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

Since local muslim leaders have only limited authority, it´s not the same as an excommunication threat by the pope for catholics; But it´s certainly a step into the right direction.

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1412 times:
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It's certainly a step in the right direction, but i'm not sure this is what some of our right wingers want to hear, Muslims condemning terrorism? How can that be?  sarcastic 


In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

Good for them. I hereby grant them a license for this fatwah ( Smile )

User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 3):
Good for them. I hereby grant them a license for this fatwah (

The problem is that no one cares what you say, JPG.. Big grin - if all people did, the world would be a better place  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1319 times:

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 4):
if all people did, the world would be a better place

I agree entirely. Vote JGPH1A for Benevolent Despot !


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
but it could mean an instant excommunion of the terrorists and radical supporters and break down the "fellow Muslim, right or wrong attitude" adopted by many Muslims so far.

I should hope it would be more of a "Wanted:Dead or Alive, preferably dead" type of Fatwa.

Now if the clerics in Cairo and Mecca start saying the same thing, it would make me feel much better about them.

Charles


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1269 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6):
if the clerics in Cairo and Mecca start saying the same thing

-
Both the Grand Imam of Egypt and the Sheikh al-Azhar have unanimously clearly condemned such terrorist acts long ago . And they are THE most high-ranking Muslim clerics around


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1265 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 5):
I agree entirely. Vote JGPH1A for Benevolent Tosspot !

I fixed your post....


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1252 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 7):
Both the Grand Imam of Egypt and the Sheikh al-Azhar have unanimously clearly condemned such terrorist acts long ago . And they are THE most high-ranking Muslim clerics around

Condemnations are cheap, and don't mean anything. History is full of bogus condemnations. I will believe in their sincerity when they preach to their followers that they must reject such fundementalism, and do everything they can to stop it if they are aware of it.

Charles


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1248 times:
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Condemnations are cheap, and don't mean anything. History is full of bogus condemnations. I will believe in their sincerity when they preach to their followers that they must reject such fundementalism, and do everything they can to stop it if they are aware of it.

Demanding practical action from muslims is also cheap and easy. As a muslim, i keep hearing from some non-muslims that we must stop the extremists. Can you elaborate on that? What do you actually mean when you say this? What exactly can a religious leader or a ordinary muslim do to stop terrorists? Shoot every guy with a beard who comes in for friday prayers?



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1238 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 9):
I will believe in their sincerity when they preach to their followers that they must reject such fundementalism, and do everything they can to stop it if they are aware of it.

No, if that happens, you will start bitching about how Muslim clerics dare to interfere with day-to-day politics and how they're terrorist supporters.

Why can't people realise the double standards they're applying to Muslim fundamentalists and Christian fundamentalists such as the IRA? Wasn't the IRA officially allowed to do fundraising in the US, at one time?! Unless people understand that using religion as an excuse for power-hungriness, high-ranking clerics can't do jack about terrorism.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1237 times:

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 10):
Demanding practical action from muslims is also cheap and easy. As a muslim, i keep hearing from some non-muslims that we must stop the extremists. Can you elaborate on that?

Simply to explain to their flock that 1) the intentional killing of innocent civilians is wrong, 2) That NOTHING (i.e. zionism, infidels, whatever) can possibly justify such actions, and 3) that all Muslims have a moral duty to report to the authorities any such terrorists they may know about.

Charles


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1227 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 8):
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 5):
I agree entirely. Vote JGPH1A for Benevolent Tosspot !

I fixed your post....

For you, I'll happily forgo the "Benevolent" bit. Fatwah for you, matey !


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1225 times:
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Simply to explain to their flock that 1) the intentional killing of innocent civilians is wrong, 2) That NOTHING (i.e. zionism, infidels, whatever) can possibly justify such actions, and 3) that all Muslims have a moral duty to report to the authorities any such terrorists they may know about.

ALL of this has already happened and is happening, how do you know that muslim leaders are not telling muslims that killing is wrong, suicide is wrong, that it isn't justified, that they have to report any suspicious activity within the community to the authorities?. None of these things need to be told to muslims, suicide is a crime in Islam, the killing of innocents is a crime in Islam, just like in Christianity and Judaism. These three things you've listed happened after 9/11, after Madrid and is happening now after London's attack. I really think you need to broaden your horizon before making such statements against muslims. All it takes is a few clicks on Google or Yahoo and you will find tons of information relating to how muslims and muslim leaders have reacted not only in the UK but around the world.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1209 times:

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 14):
ALL of this has already happened and is happening, how do you know that muslim leaders are not telling muslims that killing is wrong, suicide is wrong, that it isn't justified, that they have to report any suspicious activity within the community to the authorities?.

I know that many clerics do basically do this, but 1) not enough, and 2) they frequently qualify their condemnation. I.e. "suicide bombing is wrong, BUT...". The proof that too few actually preach this is evident by the fact that there are so many muslims that feel that terrorism is justified, and how many people come out in the streets to celebrate when something like 9/11 happens (although as far as I know, that did not happen for the London bombings, thankfully).

And yes, they DO have to be told to Muslims, evidenced by the facts above and that Wahabi-funded schools have brainwashed so many people in the world.

Charles


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1200 times:
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The proof that too few actually preach this is evident by the fact that there are so many muslims that feel that terrorism is justified, and how many people come out in the streets to celebrate when something like 9/11 happens

How many is "so many"? Out of the 2,000,000,000 muslims, how many support terrorism? Out of the 2,000,000,000 muslims, how many "came out in the streets celebrating 9/11"?

And yes, they DO have to be told to Muslims, evidenced by the facts above and that Wahabi-funded schools have brainwashed so many people in the world.

No, not every muslim has to be told, only those on the peripheral of society and those who are vulnerable need to be reminded.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 2):
Muslims condemning terrorism? How can that be?

It's about damn time one of their own condemn this stuff.

Talk is cheap, but at least it's better than the embarrassing silence that has heretofore eminated from pretty much the entire Muslim community.

Now they need to turn the screws on their radical brethren and police themselves.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1191 times:

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 16):
How many is "so many"? Out of the 2,000,000,000 muslims, how many support terrorism? Out of the 2,000,000,000 muslims, how many "came out in the streets celebrating 9/11"?

If it were only 1%, that would still be 20 million terrorism supporters and/or potential terrorists. I consider that many people.



Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 16):
No, not every muslim has to be told, only those on the peripheral of society and those who are vulnerable need to be reminded.

I never said "Every" Muslim, and most already know that (otherwise we would be in a major war, not a guerilla skermish). But, like I said, 1% is still a big number, and either they must be educated, or eventually killed when they decide to show up on the battlefields of Afghanistan or Iraq.

Charles


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1179 times:
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If it were only 1%, that would still be 20 million terrorism supporters and/or potential terrorists. I consider that many people.

Let's assume for arguments sake it is only 1%, around 20 million muslims, why should the remainder 1,980,000,000 take the flak for a group who are not answerable to anyone or anything? Considerning the figures we are talking about here, 20 million is still a minority. Even having said that, i highly doubt there is 20 million terrorists roaming around in Afghanistan, Iraq or Finsbury Park. Al Qaeda has a generous following, MI6 and the CIA estimate Al Qaeda has between 15,000 to 30,000 hardcore terrorist followers. But 20 million? That's a fantasy figure.

Talk is cheap, but at least it's better than the embarrassing silence that has heretofore eminated from pretty much the entire Muslim community.

Which muslim community and where?



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1175 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 13):
For you, I'll happily forgo the "Benevolent" bit. Fatwah for you, matey !

Join an increasingly long queue WhiteHatter..... Big grin



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1176 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 20):
Join an increasingly long queue WhiteHatter.....

Get back in the Pit of Stoning, you !

I'll take 3 large ones, 2 pointy ones and a packet of gravel...


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1168 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21):
Get back in the Pit of Stoning, you !

I'll take 3 large ones, 2 pointy ones and a packet of gravel...

But all I said was Jehovah......



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1152 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
that too few actually preach this is evident by the fact that there are so many muslims that feel that terrorism is justified

-
Not many Muslims feel or felt that terrorism is justified

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
many people come out in the streets to celebrate when something like 9/11 happens

-
A few dozen people celebrated, and were filmed, and these films shown again and again and again --- as the media people found these films nice

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
the embarrassing silence that has heretofore eminated from pretty much the entire Muslim community

-
silence ? already after 11Sep01, both the political and clerical leaders have clearly condemned that. And this has been in the media all over, and quite public


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1150 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
Talk is cheap, but at least it's better than the embarrassing silence that has heretofore eminated from pretty much the entire Muslim community.

What a load of crap (as usual).

Do you read Arabic, Urdu, Persian, Bengali, Indonesian, Tagalog?

Do you follow the news from majority Muslim countries? Do you read their newspapers? Follow their news?

How many Muslims have you talked to/interacted with in the last 4 years?

The Muslim press is filled with angry condemnations against fundamentalist radicals. At the same time they don't let the US off easily either.

Asking fundamentalist crazy preachers to condemn their hateful ideology is a bit like asking the Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson to walk in a Gay Pride Parade. Hatred is their stock in trade. But just because these whackjobs aren't making amends doesn't mean that the vast majority of Mosques, the Islamic press, and governments don't fee otherwise. Do a bit of research before you make loose accusations.


25 GDB : No, the IRA were not Christian fundamentalists, they were mainly Marxist, so Atheist, (But they forgot to mention that to their clueless US supporters
26 Mrniji : he never reads any newspaper.. what do you expect from Slider? That he converts into an intellectual and well-read from today to tomorrow?
27 Slider : OK ace, go show me the condemnations from the leading Islamic organizations....walk the talk....there have been numerous with regard to the London att
28 Mrniji : They do condemn it.. is it possible that the media "does not (want to) know about it"??? And is it possible that you would just cross out any such ne
29 Cfalk : A possibility 20 years ago. But today, where the internet reigns and we have access to nearly every newspaper article in the world, plus millions of
30 Slider : That's a good question, and I think one that needs to be asked...loudly. I don't have the answer to that one, wish I did, because we might be able to
31 Mrniji : How about we do some internet research and present our results here.. you and me? Will try my best to take some time off my lunch break tomorrow - OK
32 ME AVN FAN : > while also after 11-09-01, Muslim clerics in the West, Muslim clerics in the Arab World, Arab politicians in the Arab World, and school classes and
33 Cfalk : Who said I read them all? I didn't. I just said that it is possible to access them via the internet. Charles
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