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UK Govt. To Intruduce New Terrorism Laws  
User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 549 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1486 times:

Finally they have woken up and decided that openly declaring in the streets of London and other cities in the UK that you have extreme and radical views about how you would willingly give your life to kill ours should be illegal!! Wow, our government is good!

If I was to go to a Muslim country and openly express that I would give my life to kill Muslims, I could expect to be beaten up, deported, or killed.

So why do/did we allow it here?

And if Muslims claim this is unfair, then I might just have to slappa their face.


I came. I saw. I conquered
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1484 times:

Another thing that is unfair...
You go to a predominantly Muslim country, like Iraq for example. You won't see many Church of England churches, or Church of Scotland churches. Yet, in Britain we allow them to have their own Mosques.
In their lands, we have to conform to their ways, yet, somehow they refuse to c9onform to our ways. Slightly unfair dont you think?



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1480 times:

And I damn sure wouldn't want to preach Christianity on a street corner in say Kabul or Islamabad or Tehran . . .

User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 549 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1477 times:

Exactly!
And things like stop searches. Of course the police are going to stop asian/arab/Muslims, because its very unlikely that a white person for example is going to be a terrorist who is in conexion with al qaeda!



I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1475 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 3):
Exactly!
And things like stop searches. Of course the police are going to stop asian/arab/Muslims, because its very unlikely that a white person for example is going to be a terrorist who is in conexion with al qaeda!

Never say Never though  Sad



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1474 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 3):
Exactly!
And things like stop searches. Of course the police are going to stop asian/arab/Muslims, because its very unlikely that a white person for example is going to be a terrorist who is in conexion with al qaeda!

Never say Never though

McVeigh . . . ring a bell?


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1465 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 1):

-
you may be aware that Iraq has a sizeable Christian minority who DOES HAVE its churches, and that Tariq Aziz was (is) a Christian also. In Egypt, where approx 15 to 18 percent of the population ARE Christians, and also in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, there are many churches. Go to Tunis, with a 99% Muslim majority, and you will find churches and even synagogues (open ones in fact) -- and in Morocco a similar situation as in Tunisia.
-
and I find it a bit hard to imagine an extremist Muslim stating such stuff on the open street in any British or other European city. It sounds somewhat unreal !
-
-


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1462 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 3):
a white person

-
most Arabs are "white persons" (more or less at least)
-


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

We must be careful not to destroy what makes the place special in the first instance though.

Undoubtedly we've got a serious problem if people can grow up here and become suicide bombers, but that shouldn't blind us to the fact that race relations here are quite astonishingly good overall - certainly in comparison to most countries. We don't have any racial ghettoes in the UK. Even the most predominantly non-white areas are by no means exclusively non-white.

I hear a lot of stuff about how this is bad and that is bad, but overall it really isn't. I've lived in an area that might be termed "Muslim", and "Pakistani". I had a great time - and why the hell should that be worthy of comment anyway, it's just a place to live.

The ideas being brought forward seem eminently sensible and probably overdue regardless of what happened last week. But let's not overstate the problem here.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
I find it a bit hard to imagine an extremist Muslim stating such stuff on the open street in any British or other European city. It sounds somewhat unreal !

Sorry, wrong!!

It has been done in the past, believe it or not.

A certain extremist called Abu Hamza is in jail right now for that very reason.


Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1449 times:
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Certainly something needs to be done, in a sensible and calm way, no knee jerk reactions or laws which won't help anyone. Things need to be debated amongst all communities to see what can be done to a new and deadly phenomena. Having said that, some of the language being used is raising my eyebrows, the "they" and "us" mentality, "they" get this and that, "we" are losing out etc... This type of language does not help, and further it divides people, singling them out and making them feel like outsiders.


In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1412 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1445 times:

I would not hope for anything to change in the UK as this government loves passing new [usually ill thought out] laws but never then uses them or our pompous judges declare them to be illegal

little vc10


User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1443 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Thread starter):
UK Govt. To Intruduce New Terrorism Laws

Run Kirkie, run!  Wink


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1433 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 9):



Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 9):
Abu Hamza is in jail right now

an extremely well deserved stay there indeed. But I understood he spew his sermons behind closed doors. Of course, if anybody states publicly to be willing to kill others then it is a "threat" and instigation for murders, and as such punishable anyway.


User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1416 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 13):
I understood he spew his sermons behind closed doors

IIRC, he also held 'sermons', in the street. Can someone back me up on that??


Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13208 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1416 times:

I do hope that the UK doesn't make the same mistakes in changing important laws on privacy and the like as we did with the Patriot Act, which became law something like 6 weeks after 9/11. As the saying goes, haste makes waste - badly made law can cause many problems including unforseen and serious ones.
Fortuntally, some elements of the Patriot Act, including some of the most conterversial parts, have sunset clauses that expire on the 4th anniversary of the passage of the Act in October. Problem is that for months the Bush Administration has been pushing for blind renewal of all of the sunseting provisions, although some Democrats and a few Republicans want to be more selective and make modifications to the sunseting provisions, to keep those that do work and are needed, but to let die or modify those that are most conterversial.
The UK also must not make the mistakes they made in law and practice from their terrible experiences with IRA Terrorists. Nor should the UK go into anti-immigrant mode or pull out of Iraq quickly, despite the pressures to do so.


User currently offlineJamman From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 14):
IIRC, he also held 'sermons', in the street. Can someone back me up on that??

Yup your correct, see link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2736125.stm



Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
User currently offlinePaulc From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1406 times:

Congratulations to the govt - talk about bolting the stable door after the horse has gone.

The UK is a very tolerant nation when it comes to allowing people from other countries, religions to settle here and contribute. Yet those who seek to incite others to destroy our freedoms and way of life escape punishment because of the freedoms they are seeking to destroy - the two faces of the coin that is democracy.

As for fanatics like Abu Hamza - Kenny Everett had the rIght idea  Wink



English First, British Second, european Never!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

Quoting Jamman (Reply 16):
see link.

-
ohhhhh, the man is even worse than I thought ! if that is possible
-
-
 no 


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13254 posts, RR: 77
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1369 times:

I'm not sure we need yet more laws, the problem is that when some mad mullah is lined up for deportation, the whole 'human rights' industry swings into action, delaying, fustrating etc.
Exemplified by one Sami 'Poison dwarf' Chakrabarti', head of Liberty.

How a perfectly legitimate organisation like Liberty got themseleves so tied up in knots astounds me.
Consider, these lawyers no doubt started out with a firm commitment to human rights, very often specifically womens and/or gay rights.
How do they square that with defending some medieval minded mullah, who'd just love to stick the women in Burqa's, and kill the gays.

This whole middle class, affluent industry, needs to take a long hard look at themselves, like they are often urging society to do.

It did take pressure, after Sept 11th, to get most hate preaching Iman's, (almost all from abroad) out of UK Mosques.
But they've not gone away.
Even then, it seems that at least two of the London bombers went to 'religous schools' in Pakistan.
We need to ask the security forces in places like Pakistan to monitor the movements of people frequenting places where it is thought these sort of Iman's are active.

Not only Islamic extremism either, 'Poison Dwarf' has waged an unrelenting campaign against ASBO's.
Now these are easy to mock, but what about the case of the racist who constantly threatened a family, at their shop, death threats, fire bomb threats.
He got ASBO'd, walk into the said shop, you breach the ASBO.
He did, now he is in prison. Job done.

Would Ms Chakarbarti have been so down on ASBO's if this had been her family on the recieving end of this racist?
Does she, or any of her colleagues, have to live in an area menaced by such low-lifes?
I doubt it.

So no, we don't need a raft of yet more leglislation, maybe tighten up on existing acts of Parliament.
For a start, let's in the case of someone known to preach violence, not let the 'I might be locked up/killed if I return home' get out clause be used.
Tough shit. should have thought of that before.

The Islamic community here need to get their own Iman's in Mosques, who have been born and brought up here, not some ignorant hate monger from abroad fill this role.


User currently offlineShamrock_747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1347 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 1):
Yet, in Britain we allow them to have their own Mosques.

What reason is there to stop persons of any belief practicing their religion in peace?

Extremists must be dealt with seriously but it is not only those from traditional Muslim backgrounds who join the ranks of such evil people - today it has emerged that the fourth suicide bomber is likely to be a British citizen of Jamaican origin.

One of the main reasons that London is such a fantastic city is cultural diversity. Being able to live, work and be educated in harmony with people from all over the world, holding all kinds of beliefs and coming from such varied backgrounds is something I find to be a huge privilege. Fortunately acts of extremism have not divided London.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

This is such a difficult subject.

Up until now, communities have been relied on to be self-policing with regard to extremists. Turds like Abu Hamza have been tossed into jail when they totally overstepped the mark, and he is also wanted by ol'Dubya on an extradition warrant for some naughtiness he is allegedly involved with across the pond.

It's what helped make Britain into a multicultural society; having a light touch and relying on immigrant communities to self-police. Obviously there now needs to be some firming up of what is not acceptable and writing it into law in a much more defined process. Which includes advocating the overthrow of the State by violent means.

Nobody is going to lose any rights to association or practice of religion if done properly, except those who practice their beliefs in such a manner as to be a threat to others and the country in general.

Nobody who is reasonably minded could object to Britain as a nation saying "this is the line; cross it and you are in trouble".


User currently offlineJamman From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1326 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 21):
Nobody who is reasonably minded could object to Britain as a nation saying "this is the line; cross it and you are in trouble".

That's exactly what we need 'a line' and until anyone in power has been too afraid to put one in place.
The UK is diverse multicultural country and so should it remain with the bad apples plucked off the tree.
If you don't like this country and for what it stands for, you shouldn't be here.



Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1315 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 1):
Another thing that is unfair...
You go to a predominantly Muslim country, like Iraq for example. You won't see many Church of England churches, or Church of Scotland churches. Yet, in Britain we allow them to have their own Mosques.
In their lands, we have to conform to their ways, yet, somehow they refuse to c9onform to our ways. Slightly unfair dont you think?

And here I thought the industrialized nations of the world were full of civlized freedom lovers who don't demand conformity and like minded thinking like a totalitarian regime would (such as, the Nazis)

Boy, some people just don't learn from history, do they?


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