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China....what Do You Think?  
User currently offlineJamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1246 times:

The military build up, acquiring part of IBM, attempting to purchase American companies like Unocal and Maytag, controlling the Panama canal, their thirst for oil....and then today:
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/28cfe55a-f4a7-11d9-9dd1-00000e2511c8.html

“If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons,” said General Zhu Chenghu."

“We . . . will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian. Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds . . . of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese.”

Coupled with this:
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazi...e/0,13673,501041025-725174,00.html
"...the United Nations discussed imposing sanctions on Sudan as a punishment for sponsoring human-rights abuses in Darfur. China has invested a reported $15 billion in Sudanese oil projects, and Sudan nowadays supplies about 7% of China's oil imports. China, which sits on the U.N. Security Council, threatened to veto the sanctions. The U.N. instead passed a watered-down measure."

Doesn't sit well with me...what do you guys think?


Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1242 times:

Quoting JamesAg96 (Thread starter):
what do you guys think?

We

Are

Fucked  Sad


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2570 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1234 times:

Quoting JamesAg96 (Thread starter):
Doesn't sit well with me...what do you guys think?

As long as you and many of your fellow countrymen keep buying cheap Chinese clothing and manufactured goods, the Chinese growth will be unstopabble.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8685 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1233 times:

What do I think?

Well, now more than ever, it's time to change the SC's structure - even if we dare oppose the US on a major issue every other decade.

As for China, I think it's changing quickly economically, but the old hardline communists occupying important government positions will need more time to change/be replaced.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineACAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 710 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1232 times:

China does not shoot missiles at anyone.
China does not bomb other countries.
China does not invade other countries.
China does not keep troops in other countries.
China has not used nuclear weapons ever.
China has not used biological weapons ever.
China has not used chemical weapons ever.
China does not support the terrorists.

Anyone want to add to the list?



Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
User currently offlineTheCoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1225 times:

China is a country we must look out for either way. They're having a massive industrial revolution and they've got a billion people.

Someday when they decide they're stupid enough to acquire Taiwan, we'll have some big problems regardless of what we do.

China knows we're busy with Iraq and Afghanistan, but I'd be surprised if they were to follow through with doing such a thing.


User currently offlineJamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1222 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
Quoting JamesAg96 (Thread starter):
what do you guys think?

We

Are

Fucked

I agree.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 2):
As long as you and many of your fellow countrymen keep buying cheap Chinese clothing and manufactured goods, the Chinese growth will be unstopabble.

I agree.



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8685 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1218 times:

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
Anyone want to add to the list?

In a way, yes:

China practises the death penalty.
China limits political freedoms.
China is an anti-democratic one-party regime.
China threatens a sovereign country with invasion.
China imprisons dissidents.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1215 times:
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ACA fan

The Chinese have thousands of missiles and artillery pieces trained on Taiwan.

They have hundreds of thousands of troops prepared to invade Taiwan, the Spratley and Paracel Islands, just as they did Vietnam 20 years ago.

They have thousands of troops in the Sudan. They have troops in dozens of other countries in "advisory" capacities.

They did not have nuclear, biological or chemical weapons when they had the opportunity to use them, and now lord them over their potential enemies when working hard to keep them out of their territory and desired areas of control. There is no question that they have these weapons and they have announced that they are prepared to use them.

Not only have they supported the DPRK in the past but they also blatantly took over Tibet and control that country via very terrorist means.

The PRC is a serious problem in that they are already seeking to control key choke points around the world, as well as working on securing foreign sources for the oil that they project that they will need.

There is conflict coming, and it is going to be with the PRC whether it's going to be hot or cold is debatable. For now they are a completely authoritarian nation run by old men and generals.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1189 times:

Let me give you a little info on China, as I saw it when I lived there.

There is a rise of the middle class in China, which threatens the regime. There is an underlying want for democracy and capitalism rising with the youth. The administration is scared. They are scared because the last communist super-power is about to crumble. The leaders are hardlined for a reason, they are about to crumble. Chinese culture, everyday is becoming more westernized, and western values are floating around with great ferver. As this happens, the regime will become more hardlined, and I fully expect that China will go through a revolution in the near future towards western values, leaving those old, hardliners in the dust. China is on the rise, and it's rising in favor for western ideals. The power is truly in the people, and they need to start exercising that power. I have always though, and will continue to feel, that China and the US are going to become closer and closer, even though the current US/Chinese administrations would like to you think otherwise. We would be absolutely idiots if we did not bring China into the realm of the US and Europe. It's coming people, just the old hardliners in the US and China are worried about it. I am not. The Chinese have different value systems, but the feeling in China is far from communism. Cab drivers were more than friendly to talk to me about the US. They are fascinated by western culture, and want that for themselves. And, as this middle class comes to fruition, the fruits of capitalism will prevail in China. That is, unless the administration does something incredibly wrong.

UAL


User currently offlineJalto27R From United States of America, joined May 2004, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1182 times:

The whole empty threat of nuclear usage scares you at first, but then you just have to think about it. China is going through a ridiculously large industrial and military revolution, the last thing they want is to be destroyed, while in the process bringing down another country. It defies the entire purpose of living.

Mike


User currently offlineSQuared From Canada, joined May 2005, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1174 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
There is conflict coming, and it is going to be with the PRC whether it's going to be hot or cold is debatable. For now they are a completely authoritarian nation run by old men and generals.

This really is the multi-trillion dollar questions, whether or not this conflict will be cold or hot. Historic trends suggest that when a great power (in this case China) challenges the superpower (the United States) conflict ensues. For case examples WWI and WWII suffice. However the development of nuclear weapons coupled with interedependent global links throws that trend into disarray. Furthermore there is evidence that a challenge need not result in conflict, in the post-WWII the United States surpassed Great Britain without any form of resistance.

So will this conflict be military-based? This, I highly doubt. Even though China is bent on taking back Taiwan, it also realizes that military conflict is counter-productive to its aims. Such an attack would be devastating as Taiwan has quite an advanced military, and the support of the United States. China may be an authoritarian state run by old men and despotic generals, but they aren't suicidal. IMO the conflict will unlikely take place in the military sphere, at least at first. China's challenge will come in the economic sphere. As we can see China is already trying to secure the major commodities it needs by buying foreign companies. We are also witnessing some of the reaction by the superpower, with lawmakers wary of Chinese control.

Do I think a military challenge will occur? Not for a while, if at all. But China is certainly gunning for the position of superpower, a position it lost centuries ago, and feels that it is its birthright. It will try to accomplish this goal, firstly through economic supremacy, and then perhaps through military supremacy.

SQuared

[Edited 2005-07-15 04:50:09]

User currently offlineHKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1172 times:

Hmmm, another thread by people who are scared that some Asian country dares to challenge the West in the superpower stakes and won't bow to Americans.  Angry

These people are still living in the 1800s when they are all high & mighty and want to colonise China.

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China does not shoot missiles at anyone.
China does not bomb other countries.
China does not invade other countries.
China does not keep troops in other countries.
China has not used nuclear weapons ever.
China has not used biological weapons ever.
China has not used chemical weapons ever.
China does not support the terrorists.

Thank you ACAfan . . .  Smile

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
China practises the death penalty.

As does the US, and a lot of other countries, and is probably not a bad thing.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
China threatens a sovereign country with invasion.

Hmmm, that supposedly sovereign country is really part of its own country and threatening independence. I don't see why it can't point missiles at it. How much money has this supposedly sovereign country given to poor countries just to keep the "sovereign" status?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
China imprisons dissidents.

As does the US and other Western countries - I wonder what will happen if you proclaim you are a "Radical Muslim" or something like this in the US?

And for you Americans out there, don't forget which country is feeding you by buying US Treasury bonds.



4 Engines 4 LongHaul
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13032 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1167 times:

I am very concerned that they will annex Taiwan, perhaps in a confrontation that we may have to avoid despite our support of an independent Taiwan, a country that has developed a democratic society and is an economic powerhouse for it's size. I would also be concerned with the PRC expanding their sphere of influence into South and especially Southeast Asia, Eastern and East Central Africa and parts of the Islamic world. Maybe China will even try to annex Eastern Russia, as Russia is now and in the forseeable future a crippled country, unable to support and protect their turf east of the Urals and as a possible source of minerals, wood, water, oil and just some land area for China.

User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1167 times:

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 12):
and is probably not a bad thing.

Save lack of due process and billing the family for the bullet..It's the little details, I know..

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 12):
feeding you by buying US Treasury bonds.

Another source of embarrasment for this administration.


User currently offlineJamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1138 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 14):
Another source of embarrasment for this administration.

This has been going on long before this admin came into power.



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineA380 From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 658 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1133 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
China threatens a sovereign country with invasion.

The US of A invaded so many sovereign countries anyway.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1133 times:

Anyone, I mean ANYONE, who lives in a free, open society, who things China is all that, is just a lunatic, I'm sorry to say. They are a dictatorial country; they imprison people for simply voicing opposition to the government (sorry, whomever said it, the U.S. does not do this, or I'd be sitting in a freaking jail. Stop being ignorant). They still have imperialistic aspiriations for Taiwan; for Japan; for Siberia-those have never changed; they brutally oppress their own people; they are not a nice country, nor a nice government right now.

How the U.S. lets a communist regime like this, to take IBM, maybe Unocal and other U.S. companies is just dumbfounding. Far as I'm concerned, we should pass a law barring the sale of U.S. companies to Chinese interests, period. No exceptions. The money all ends up in their military.

Any free man who supports China, and thinks it's something good, is a friggin' idiot. Let him move ther for 5 years, and see how much he would love it.


User currently offlineJamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1114 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
How the U.S. lets a communist regime like this, to take IBM, maybe Unocal and other U.S. companies is just dumbfounding.

Scary isn't it?



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1103 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 14):
Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 12):
feeding you by buying US Treasury bonds.

Another source of embarrasment for this administration.

TedT . . . I hate to break it to you - but here's a blinding flash of the obvious - this is no more an embarrassment to this administration than it is/was to Clinton/ Bush 1/Reagan . . . . . .

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 2):
As long as you and many of your fellow countrymen keep buying cheap Chinese clothing and manufactured goods, the Chinese growth will be unstopabble.

Luis . . .how much "cheap" stuff do you think the US gets from Venezuela? Should we also stop importing good from Venezuela as well? It's the whole outsourcing thing that has to stop . . . or be drastically pared back . . . we're doing more damage to our economy with that than most people realize or will admit.

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China does not shoot missiles at anyone.

Taiwan is a sitting duck, and the only reason it hasn't been hammered yet is the US and other nations vowing intervention.

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China does not bomb other countries.

See my previous statement.

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China does not invade other countries.

Vietnam, South Korea, Tibet . . .

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China does not keep troops in other countries.

Sudan, Tibet

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China has not used nuclear weapons ever



Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China has not used biological weapons ever.



Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China has not used chemical weapons ever.

But they have them . . . and could use them at any time. Once again . . . Taiwan is a great example. I don't put their leadership in the same category as North Korea's but I would NOT be at all surprised if they commited NBC weapons in the future.

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China does not support the terrorists.

They are a terroristic government. That's support enough. They rule by terror.

See . . . . . . .

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 12):
Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
China practises the death penalty.

As does the US, and a lot of other countries, and is probably not a bad thing.



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 14):
Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 12):
and is probably not a bad thing.

Save lack of due process and billing the family for the bullet..It's the little details, I know

 yes 


User currently offlineF9Widebody From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1091 times:

Bingo ANC.

This really worries me as well. I just cannot believe we would even consider allowing our companies to be bought by China. That is just frickin' absurd, irresponsible, and moronic.



YES URLS in signature!!!
User currently offlineAirways1 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1088 times:

Well, Alpha1, I willingly moved to China a year ago, and so it's not the 5 years you suggested, but I can tell you from my experience here, you are quite far off the mark for the average person.

There is no question that political dissent is suppressed in this country, but what you fail to understand is that the vast vast majority of people here don't give a hoot about politics. The economy is growing well, and people here are first and foremost concerned with increasing their wealth and living standard. Thus for nearly all people the suppression of political dissent has no influence, negative or otherwise, on their lives.

Whether you, as an outsider, are in favour of or against the policies of the chinese government has no relation with the lives of the people in this country. It's undeniable that people in developed western countries are a lot wealthier than the majority of the Chinese, but to make out that living in China is an existance in an oppressive hell is anything but realistic.


User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1074 times:

Quoting Airways1 (Reply 21):
There is no question that political dissent is suppressed in this country, but what you fail to understand is that the vast vast majority of people here don't give a hoot about politics.

Well they do so at their own peril then because politics affects almost every aspect of your life whether you vote for it, or it gets handed to you. You act as though it’s something superficial like saying “I don’t need tennis. We’re really not that interested in tennis”

The political structure of your government impacts every facet of your existence from the form of your judicial system to what kind of roads you have to what your children read in school. To suggest it doesn’t matter or that people shouldn’t care is just plain stupid, and you will regret the day you came to that conclusion.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineAirways1 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

11Bravo:

I'm just describing the situation as it is, or at least as I see it. Whatever the implications may be, for better or for worse, it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I reitterate, for the vast majority of people here, it is not the oppressive hell-hole that some people like to portray.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9298 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1055 times:

Quoting Jalto27R (Reply 10):
It defies the entire purpose of living.

it defies our purpose.

their purpose is to do good deeds for "the now" so they can enjoy a healthy after life.

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 4):
China does not shoot missiles at anyone.
China does not bomb other countries.
China does not invade other countries.
China does not keep troops in other countries.
China has not used nuclear weapons ever.
China has not used biological weapons ever.
China has not used chemical weapons ever.
China does not support the terrorists.

whose to say they aren't going to start?



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
25 Post contains images Aloges : It is a bad thing for it violates the most fundamental human right, and the US doing it, too, is not an excuse. The US is also a country that used nu
26 L410Turbolet : Tibet anyone? Border disputes and history of military conflicts with every single one of their neighbors? But they sure can do their maths if you und
27 Soyuzavia : I say bring it on. Let the Americans start a nuclear war, and we'll soon find out just how effective this missile defence system which was paid for by
28 Aloges : AFAIK, Benq will continue producing mobiles with the Siemens brand in Germany for a couple of years.[Edited 2005-07-15 13:19:55]
29 SQuared : While that may be true, an impending American threat is a sufficient deterrent for China. Direct conflicts between great powers ended with WWII. We a
30 L410Turbolet : I agre. I am not sure whether it is (was) more peaceful (number of proxy wars and "police" actions within respective blocks of influence), but certai
31 Pope : The Nepalese may disagree with that. The formerly South Vietnamese may disagree with that. Several thousand US airmen certainly disagree with that st
32 Falcon84 : I think we have a winner for LOTW on Airwhiners. That may be one of the most naive, most incredible sentences I've ever read on this forum. Just incr
33 Slider : China murders newborn girls in order to orchestrate more male births. China has over 300 million of its citizens that don't have drinkable water. Chi
34 Post contains images Jacobin777 : UAL747...you made some good comments, it will be a "race" to what ideologies wins...will it be the middle class people who will be able to revolutioni
35 Slider : The really insidious (and sad) thing is that there are few alternatives for many such products.
36 Jacobin777 : Slider, it all boils down to money, if people from the United States chose to spend more for a product, it can be manufactured somewhere else other t
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