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Man Shot Dead In London, Not Connected  
User currently offlineTFSPhoto From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

The dude the police shot on the train in london the otherday, was totally unconnected to the terrorist attacks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4711021.stm

After being shot 5 times in the head.. i think they dropped a bollock with this one.

Lew

199 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyLondon From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

Quoting TFSPhoto (Thread starter):
i think they dropped a bollock with this one.

I don't agree, as regretable as this man's death is, I still fully support the police in their descison to shoot. This man emerged from a house they were monitoring, the day after an attempted terrorist attack, wearing a thich coat on a hot summer day. He then proceeded to a tube station 1 stop away from the previous days inncidents and when challenged by the police chose to jump over the barriers and run onto a tube train. Under the circumstances I believe he must hold a great deal of the responsibility for his death.


User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Certainly doesn't sound entirely innocent - he practically asked for it. Now just wait for all the PC apologists to start telling us that we have to have a signed confession from a suicide bomber before police are allowed to stop him killing a couple of dozen people.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3693 times:
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I have to agree that the police did the right thing! Why was he running once ordered to stop.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLeonB1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

I wonder whether the police will release CCTV footage from the underground station? Clearly must provide a good insight into what actually happened as the man passed through the station to get to the train where he was shot.

With regard to the weather, I didn't find it hot yesterday. I believe it was overcast for most of the day and I almost wore a (padded!) jacket as I travelled to work at LHR...

Quoting FlyLondon (Reply 1):
Under the circumstances I believe he must hold a great deal of the responsibility for his death.

Not sure if I can fully agree with that. Would he have known that the house/block where he lived was under surveillance? Did he know the men trying to stop him were police? I guess we'll never know these things.

[Edited 2005-07-23 23:46:57]

User currently offlineTFSPhoto From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3674 times:

I dont fault them for his death at all.. but shot in the head 5 times? thats a little insane.. obviously they didnt wish to speak to him..

User currently offlineFlyLondon From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

Quoting TFSPhoto (Reply 5):
but shot in the head 5 times? thats a little insane..

According to the BBC analyst I was listening to yesterday, the police were likely using low velocity bullets to minimise the risks to people nearby, hence so many shots. As for shooting in the head, apparently Israel had advised that shooting suspects in the chest, as is normal to incapacitate but not kill, may set off explosives.


User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3661 times:

Quoting TFSPhoto (Reply 5):
I dont fault them for his death at all.. but shot in the head 5 times? thats a little insane.. obviously they didnt wish to speak to him..

If they had reason to suspect he might be about to detonate a bomb, there's no other option than to put him down and make sure he doesn't get up again.


User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

Justified, IMO. If police ask you to stop, you stop. If you run, they follow. If you do this a day after a 2nd terror attack, a fortnight after a first, you are asking for it. The police perhaps were a little hasty, however if he had been a suicide bomber, and had the train he boarded been destroyed, the police would no dount have come under intense criticism. Also, he had to be prevented from detonating any potential bombs. Simply incapacitatying him would have been ineffective if he had been able to detonate a bomb.


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3636 times:

play the tape! i'm sure we're all eager to see what the police have told us is supposed to have happend, the guy was a Brazilian electrician, what are the chances he spoke limited or no english?!? guess we'll never know, shooting up a train station is as terrifiying as a terrorist setting off bombs but it's seen as being acceptable?!?


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3635 times:

Quoting Backfire (Reply 2):
Certainly doesn't sound entirely innocent - he practically asked for it.

Yeah, just like women walking alone at dark ask for being raped.  sarcastic 

Even though both are utterly irresponsible (might as well say "stupid"), there's no justification for either. I'm just glad the police had the balls to call this a "tragedy", which seems to be more than anyone can expect from a.net's armchair terrorism experts.

This is also an example of the popular "chain of events" you hear about every time a plane crashes, and of over-reaction due to terrorism. Those who truly are to blame for the man's death are the terrorists screwing people's and peoples' minds.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

Well, I have to agree with the rest of you guys here. As much as this event is lamentable, running from cops (who are already under lot's of pressure) into the Tube given the recent events is not the smartest idea. Especially not following police orders.

Btw, the media down here is reporting that he was a legal resident, lived in London for four years, worked as an electrician and spoke english well.

PPVRA

[Edited 2005-07-24 00:12:19]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineGamps From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 469 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

Justified, IMO. If police ask you to stop, you stop

Cops were in civvies. Guy must have thought that they were trying to rob him.


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3615 times:

Hey, I'm a liberal, and I take a good deal of crap about it: you don't support our troops, you're soft on terroists...

As tragic as this is, I agree that at some point, you've got to take immediate action in a situation such as this. Anyone should realize that, if confronted by authorities in the aftermath of what has happened in London, you'd better use a dose or two of common sense. Suspicious behavior/clothing, coupled with where he was coming from, running from the police, I'd have probably done the same, if I were a policeman, and shot him.

If the reports are accurate, that he was not connected, why did he run??? There are no doubt more facts to come out. Strange, and sad.

And, BTW, I do support our TROOPS, I just don't support our administration; I also think that fairly convicted terrorists should pay for it dearly and that all fair and reasonable efforts to curb terroism should be implemented.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

The problem is that the police are currently in a no win situation. The fact is that there is a militant fifth column operating in Britain (not just there), which is hiding within the normal population. These fifth columnists are seeking to sacrifdice their lives for what they consider their cause and to cause extreme bloodshed.
Frankly, I don't see any other way to stop a determined suicide bomber than to kill him, even though I would prefer to capture him alive, if only to gather intelligence about the people in the background of his group.

If the police reacts hard and accidentally they kill an innocent person (as happened yesterday), they get blamed for incompetence.
If they hold back and a terrorist manages to blow up a train, killing many people, they get blamed as well.

Jan


User currently offlineLeonB1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

It's a no win situation for the police, I think that's clear. They did what they believed to be right and in the interests of public safety.

However, am I the only person who would think twice if people in civvies shouted at me to stop? Yeah, naturally I'd stop if a uniformed police officer asked me to, but anyone can in normal clothes can shout "stop, police!" before proceeding to give me a good kicking, stealing my bank cards, etc.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

Quoting FlyLondon (Reply 1):
I don't agree, as regretable as this man's death is, I still fully support the police in their descison to shoot.

Second!

...when someone, or correction: mulitple people, with M16s tell you to stop-- yo ass needs to stop. End of story.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3579 times:
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I just heard on NBC news that the victim was an illegal alien who did not speak or understand the English language, good reason to learn the language of your host country!


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineN229NW From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1950 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting LeonB1985 (Reply 4):
Would he have known that the house/block where he lived was under surveillance? Did he know the men trying to stop him were police?

EXACTLY. Those are the big questions that are nagging me.

I agree the police are in a truly tough situation though; don't know what I would have done if I'd been the one with the gun and a spilt-second decision. A lot would depend on what happened really beforehand...

[Edited 2005-07-24 00:43:36]


It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3557 times:
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Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 17):
I just heard on NBC news that the victim was an illegal alien who did not speak or understand the English language, good reason to learn the language of your host country!

In California or Florida, you get shot if you do speak English. If you don't, you get driving licences.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineLeonB1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3540 times:

Quoting N229NW (Reply 18):

EXACTLY. Those are the big questions that are nagging me.

I agree the police are in a truly tough situation though; don't know what I would have done if I'd been the one with the gun and a spilt-second decision. A lot would depend on what happened really beforehand...

I'm glad that I'm not the only person who thinks this. Things simply aren't black and white. It's all very well saying "oh he shouldn't have run, his house was under surveillance, etc." but how much did this guy actually know about what was going on? Presumably very little. Welcome to my respected user listed N229NW.

[Edited 2005-07-24 00:57:53]

User currently offlineSoyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3529 times:
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Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 17):
I just heard on NBC news that the victim was an illegal alien who did not speak or understand the English language, good reason to learn the language of your host country!

NBC is wrong. He lived in London for 3 years legally and spoke English.


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3518 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 16):
Quoting FlyLondon (Reply 1):
I don't agree, as regretable as this man's death is, I still fully support the police in their descison to shoot.

Second!

...when someone, or correction: mulitple people, with M16s tell you to stop-- yo ass needs to stop. End of story.

I can't help but notice, Freddie, that I said almost the exact same thing as FlyLondon and as you, yet you apparently chose to ignore it. Perhaps I don't need things read to me all the time.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3494 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 17):
I just heard on NBC news that the victim was an illegal alien who did not speak or understand the English language, good reason to learn the language of your host country!



Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 21):

NBC is wrong. He lived in London for 3 years legally and spoke English.

Exactly, the info down here is the same.

PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3455 times:

there is no fucken excuse for police in civilian clothing pumping 5 bulletts into a mans head while he is pinned to the ground! ever heard of handcuffs? none whatsoever! if someone in civies was chasing me with an M16 i'd bloody run for my life too! how the hell are you going to know if they are police or not, then when they finally catch you and pin you to the ground the fire 5 shots into your head! this is the scary part, "Analysts said police were operating under secret new guidelines, codenamed Operation Kratos, allowing them to aim for the head if they believe there was a threat to the public." "To give license to people to shoot to kill just like that, on the basis of suspicion, is very frightening," god help you if your running to work and your late for the train!


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
25 Arsenal@LHR : A terrible blunder by the police, someone should lose their job and career as a result of this. What needs to be done now is seek answers as to how an
26 ANCFlyer : Fleeing the police when told to stop - having exited from a structure under surveillance in connection with a Terrorist Attack - an ACTUAL terrorist a
27 Post contains images LeonB1985 : Imagine the outrage if this had happened to a British citizen in a foreign country. The Sun newspaper's headline would probably read differently to Sa
28 QANTAS077 : then when they pin him down they pump 5 bullets in his head, even worse call on the polices part wouldn't you think? surely they could have assessed
29 Tbar220 : The police were in plain clothes, how did he know they were cops? Now we don't know if they showed their badges or just yelled at him to stop. They h
30 LHSebi : Could not agree with you more! This guy really seemed to have no idea what was going on! Witnesses say that the look on the guy's face before they sh
31 QANTAS077 : Murdoch trash, you can't expect to much more from him!
32 LeonB1985 : Tbar220 and LHSebi, I agree with you both. As I've been saying all along, the guy in question most probably won't have known his house was under surve
33 SATX : If I were a praying man, I'd pray to god that each and every one of you would eventually be forced to make the same decisions this dead man had to ma
34 Soyuzavia : Already the UK authorities are in damage control and passing responsibility by claiming that this guy is a victim of terrorism. No, this Brazilian is
35 Post contains images N229NW : There is a wide range of possible things that might turn out--and I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions. If the police acted properly, and the man
36 LTBEWR : If recent reports are true that the man shot by police on Friday in London was not a terrorist, then we may be in more serious problems than just terr
37 Falcon84 : As taut as nerves have got to be in London right now, I don't fault the police one bit. Sounds like this guy was acting a little strange, and a little
38 787 : Ooops! And they call the Americans trigger happy? Fact is, if this had happened in the U.S., people on here would be ALL OVER the Americans screaming
39 SATX : With our domestic media filled to the brim with naive Pollyanna's who refuse to ask the tough questions 999 times out of 1000, I wonder if such an ev
40 Falcon84 : One problem here-there was no mistake, except by this man who had a brain fart, and it cost him his life.
41 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Tis you that is failing to engage your cranial lobe sir . . . NO, they obviously didn't announce to the occupants of the house were surveilling them,
42 SATX : Those are the kind of confident statements that would seem to require the whole story to be known before they could be made. How can we really know t
43 SATX : I have reason to believe that there are plain clothes officers on some of the planes I fly on. However, the number of times that I have ever seen a p
44 Soyuzavia : What I find funny is that this is one of the most erroneous comments I've read. There is a difference between detaining a 'suspect' and questioning t
45 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Why the self-importance cher? ...I didn't even notice it
46 Falcon84 : And you'd be the first one to scream at the police, as ANC alluded to.
47 Falcon84 : You don't complicate it, my friend, when you're the policeman, and you may be right behind a terrorist, and you KNOW you're right behind a guy who is
48 Post contains images Soyuzavia : Would I? Why do you like to assume what I would do Alpha? Here you go assuming again? Everyone is on their side? Rubbish. The intelligence (for lack
49 Falcon84 : Because that's just how you are. You scream at them for making a split-second decision, and you'll second guess them no matter what they do, Russophi
50 Soyuzavia : Can you put your utter naivete any more succinctly? Only if I were you and was looking in the mirror.
51 Falcon84 : Oh, that REALLY hurt, and REALLY added a lot to the conversation, Russophile. Again, the fact is, you're screaming about somthing that you seem to be
52 NumberTwelve : Ok, no more London visit when the police gets supported blind, also when they kill/murder an innocent person. Is every tube user practically asking f
53 QANTAS077 : nobody is dangerously naive and it's quite stupid to suggest that, just because some people disagree with the shoot first ask questions later policy d
54 GVBIG : The Police done their job, and done it well. It's unfortunate that these thigns happen, but the guy shouldn't have run away when called upon.
55 Post contains images Skidmarks : Having read through roughly 2/3rds of this thread, I have come to the conclusion that none of us actually know what exactly happened on this rather tr
56 NumberTwelve : Done it well? Hmmmm, you define "killing an innocent person" as a good job?
57 Post contains images GVBIG : Better being safe than sorry. Of course, you probably support the terrorists.
58 NumberTwelve : GVBIG - the person they killed was innocent. So is it allowed to kill innocent people just to be safe? Don't blame me supporting terrorists, but if yo
59 GVBIG : NumberTwelve, but sorry, they believed that he was a suspect. If he was completely innocent, he would not have ran away. Stop critising the UK Police
60 MD11Engineer : That guy was obviously running away BECAUSE he was an illegal immigrant with no papers. If he would have stopped when challenged, the police would hav
61 QANTAS077 : if they believed that then why the hell did they even let him get near the station, he should have been arrested as they had planned before he even g
62 Pelican : You 100% right. I can imagine a situation in which the police screwed up. On the other hand it's not unlikely that the police had no other choice tha
63 Post contains images QANTAS077 : bullshit, he was tailed by 2 different groups of police and the 1st group wanted to arrest him before he entered the tube station, if the house was t
64 Post contains images Pelican : QANTAS077 - So you know what actually happened? With such knowledge you should immediately contact the media and Scotland Yard. As I've already stated
65 Post contains links QANTAS077 : it's fact what i said, it's from the polices mouth not mine! they've made it clear they were watching his house, that he caught a bus from his house
66 Pelican : It says to me they weren't sure whether he was a bad guy. If they had been sure, they wouldn't have been watched the house. They would have arrested
67 QANTAS077 : and that's my point! they lacked intelligence and that failure cost an innocent man his life! if they knew enough to be there in the first place then
68 LeonB1985 : I don't believe this to be a particularly fair statement, afterall it seems he was indeed innocent. In certain situations, people run. If a group of
69 ME AVN FAN : -> he "emerged" ? NOT from his point of view. He simply came out of that house. And wearing a thick coat ? many people originating from warmer countr
70 Post contains links LeonB1985 : The man had been living legally in the UK: "Mr Menezes' cousin Mr Pereira said the 27-year-old was from the city of Gonzaga in Minas Gerais state, and
71 Arsenal@LHR : Wrong, and pretty naive. 1. A terrible blunder by this guy, running away from police in an area of a recent terrorist attack. 2. No one should lose th
72 ME AVN FAN : - the really frightening aspect is that policemen in London start to suffer from strained nerves. Have again to suggest to replace them with some pol
73 PerthGloryFan : Someone who apparently is not naive said: You take the guy down. The fault lies with this guy, who didn't have more common sense, not with anyone else
74 Gman94 : You guys really need to take a step back and stop shooting from the hip defending one side or the other. Some of you really have come up with some stu
75 L410Turbolet : Yeah, take some cops from rural nowhere just for them to get lost at the first intersection. Sorry, but that's just naive. Besides I believe the Cana
76 Post contains images Skidmarks : Well said Andy
77 LTBEWR : One story I heard is that this person that was killed by the cops lived in a flat/apartment in the same building that was being monitored as to possib
78 ME AVN FAN : -> Edmonton has 940'000 inhabitants, Calgary has 953'000 inhabitants and Winnipeg has 673'000 inhabitants --- so that this is NOT exactly out of rura
79 Jamie757 : I couldn't agree more... well said! Rgds.
80 7LBAC111 : Drama queen! They didn't shoot up a train station, they used 5 tartgeted shots, on someone who, in the heat of the moment, was seen as a threat, and
81 TFSPhoto : Well thats another bollock, if they left him on the train untill they cleared the area, he could of easily detonated anything he had... or in this ca
82 Post contains images Gman94 : For crying out loud the only guys dropping bollocks are you guys, as I said in my earlier post you are just adding 2+2 and getting 26342187631. We kno
83 Post contains images Falcon84 : Now, they murdered the guy. The naive pills must be getting passed around between forum members now. The appalling lack of reality in some of you is
84 MD11Engineer : I got my information from previous articles, which stated that he was an illegal. I asked the moderators to remove my obviously false post. Jan
85 Post contains images Falcon84 : Heck, don't do that MD11. No reason to delete it. It was just an error. That's not against the rules-at least last time I checkecd.
86 Post contains links Arsenal@LHR : The family of the Brazilian man have received an apology from the Metropolitan police, somehow i don't think that will ease their pain. http://news.bb
87 MD11Engineer : BTW, a lot of accidents like this happened in 1940, when there was a serious threat of Germans invading Britain. There were quite a few people shot by
88 GDB : I'm with Guam94 on this, some of you clearly do not know much about the area this happened in, it is NOT usual to vault the barriers to catch a train
89 ME AVN FAN : -> in my case at least, you got it right, because I am puzzled about the REAL circumstances. For instance what does "completely innocent" and "not co
90 ME AVN FAN : - This is THE only way to go. I went through such things since the Zerqa days in 1970 and repeatedly since then. I in 2002 got interrogated by Carabi
91 NumberTwelve : Are they gods, GVBIG? No Criticism? They killed an innocent person. What would you say if this would happen to a British citizen in- or outside GB? T
92 ME AVN FAN : -> it of course is conclusion based on insufficient evidence, but it clearly looks like panicking. Running away from anybody with a pistol is wrong a
93 QANTAS077 : let me make it simple for you, how the hell did the police allow him to get on a bus in the first place to ride to a tube station?? they were observi
94 NumberTwelve : Falcon, you are talking about the past several weeks? So maybe you ignored what happened the last years, not only weeks. The Madrid and London attack
95 Jaysit : And just a few days ago I thought that Scotland Yard would NEVER make such a mistake. Why, oh why, did I assume that British cops are in any way more
96 GDB : No.12 and 077, come on, you are being absurd. Easy to criticize from a PC on the other side of the world isn't it? Used the London transport system si
97 Mhodgson : the four terrorists on 7/7 were British. I'd be delighted if they had been shot before they boarded those trains.
98 Falcon84 : Jaysit, you have the luxury of sitting back here and pissing on the police of London, when they had to make a snap decision. They didn't have that lux
99 Post contains images NumberTwelve : Of course it is - but I have a different job than the policemen who killed the innocent man. Of course police makes life more safe - but when they sh
100 PerthGloryFan : Falcon84 said, in a non-dramatic way: I suppose next time, we should just let a suspicious-looking person walk in there, and not have the police bothe
101 NumberTwelve : Perthfan - it's just annoying when you hear people in this thread who aren't critical against the Scotland Yard "action". It's a fact that they killed
102 Jaysit : They did. They'd been tailing this fellow for awhile. They probably fucked up big time. And now you're using an enhanced state of emergency to someho
103 Post contains images Luv2fly : They are not the only ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
104 ME AVN FAN : - an interesting thought. There now however is Brazil directly involved and I heard that even the Brazilian government got involved. So that it now i
105 Falcon84 : #12, they didn't have a freaking crystal ball to tell if this guy was "innocent" or guilty, dude. You seem totally obliviious to that fact. All they k
106 GDB : They might have been tailing, but if it is the case that he was asked to stop, then clearly they decided that tailing him further, as they thought he
107 Mir : As wrong as they were, I can't blame the police for what they did - the circumstances have been described over and over here, so I won't bother with
108 NumberTwelve : Falcon, in the 30's the majority in Germany thought Hitler was right.
109 Post contains images Falcon84 : #12, what the hell does that have to do with anything? Your naivte is showing again.
110 NumberTwelve : Falcon84, the opinion of majority/minority doesnt mean right/wrong - this is what my Hitler comparison means. Very simple.
111 ME AVN FAN : - off-topic in fact. But into history: in the elections to the Reichstag of the German Empire (without emperor but still having that name), the NSDAP
112 QANTAS077 : what, you don't think it's absurd that with whats happend in the last 2 weeks that they allowed him to even catch a bus, get your head out of the clo
113 Gman94 : It cracks me up all you guys are so quick to heap abuse at the policeman and ask question about their actions, but all you say is, 'Why did the police
114 MauriceB : only thing i can say that if it really was a terrorist and they had let him go because they didn't know for sure, it may have resulted in lots of more
115 Falcon84 : Truly amazing, isn't it? None of the clowns on here bashing the police are even ASKING why this guy acted the way he did-it's just the fault of the b
116 PPVRA : So how was the police supposed to pre-judge that this guy was innocent? What if he wasn't? What if he walked into the crowded train and blew himself
117 Jaysit : Right, Falcon. When you're in the majority, then the majority's right. Otherwise, majoritarian views are suspect. Give the "majority on A.net" theory
118 BA757 : This thread is full of crap, which a lot of you have blatantly made up yourselves from various media stories. A lot of you are saying that the armed o
119 Jaysit : But they didn't. And a perfectly innocent man is dead. Add his face to the list of the 52 innocents who lost their lives. Btw, since when does killin
120 Post contains images NumberTwelve : This is why I didn't mention 1933 but the 30's. I just wanted to say that the majority's opinion doesn't mean it's the "right" opinion (whatever "rig
121 L410Turbolet : Are you sure? How about some of those more trigger-happy GIs in Iraq? Besides, you know what they say... never say never. Dude, what's your problem?
122 Post contains images Banco : Oh, right. Yes, US police have never shot someone by mistake, have they? Don't be absurd, the circumstances are entirely different. September 11th wa
123 BA757 : No one has all the facts on this forum or in this discussion. It is as simple as that. What I am saying is you have to trust the police, and believe
124 Soyuzavia : You know, if you say something often enough you might see the light and join the majority..... naïve naïve naïve naïve naïve naïve naïve naïve
125 Post contains images Scbriml : Well that would seem to be somewhat counter productive really wouldn't it? Card placed through letterbox - "While you were out we visited. We've bugg
126 BMIFlyer : Nice to see how many people can tell us that the police were wrong, just by reading whats in the papers. Boy, if only it were that easy huh??. Out of
127 Soyuzavia : A split second decision? Cmon, they supposedly had this guy and the 'house' under surveillance (for how many days/hours?). They had more than a fract
128 BCAL : The British Police was once the envy of the world but standards have declined. Until the facts are fully known I consider that last week's episode is
129 787 : Yes. I said it earlier here. Again where is the "outrage"? I don't see it except for a trifle bit from just a few. You could say that those in Britai
130 N229NW : JAYSIT: This is the first time I've really disagreed with you in all the posts I've seen you make on a.net (well there was one other time, when you ma
131 Post contains images Theredbaron : That is the real problem here I bet we will never know the thruth since half the history (th e brazilians version) is DEAD I think exactly the same a
132 Ryanb741 : We live in turbulent times and the suspicious behaviour of this guy meant he got tragically killed. An example was today - an Asian guy got on the tub
133 QANTAS077 : it's the question that all these non naive people on here seem to be avoiding...a man worthy of being deemed "suspiscious" and followed yet allowed t
134 ANCFlyer : I spent a lot of time reading and re-reading this thread . . . You guys beat up on Falcon pretty good . . . unfortunately, he's right on this one . .
135 Falcon84 : Look-to all those I've called naive-and I'm, not backing down on it, but consider this: Those policemen, or law enforcement officers EVERY DAY are fac
136 QANTAS077 : he was tailed right on to a bus which lead to the tube station! how the hell was that allowed to happen? Scotland Yard knew that people from that hou
137 ME AVN FAN : -> from the reports I have seen, everything about the whole affair is suspicious. I hope the police in London does the required homework and can pres
138 ME AVN FAN : -> ok ok, BUT police will have to tell WHY they let him onto a bus (or did I get this wrong ? ) and allowed him to blow up that bus ! � -> polic
139 PPVRA : Nope, nobody does. Not even the Police. But that's life. All that happened in this event led the police to believe he was guilty. And given his suspi
140 ME AVN FAN : -> maybe of course, BUT they will have to present full details of the matter in such a case he IS NOT THOUGHT of as a possible terrorist. as simple a
141 Jaysit : Exactly, And, well, what I've been saying is that this was CLEARLY a mistake. When you kill a man who is as far removed from the 7/7 bombings as the
142 Post contains links Banco : It seems that the man in question had overstayed his visa. Might suggest why he ran. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm Jaysit, I would think i
143 Post contains images N229NW : I always thought that Estelle Getty was a bit shifty...and I heard she made some mysterious trips to Afghanistan in the late 90s...
144 PerthGloryFan : Quoting PerthGloryFan (Reply 102): Everyone else Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 107): No, not everyone else-you, and a few blinded, naive few, not "everyone
145 ME AVN FAN : -> mistake or/and misunderstanding looks likely, it will be the job of the police to clarify the matter -> WHO did "assert otherwise" ? Hardly a majo
146 ME AVN FAN : According to the "Sun" : ""MORE people could be shot in the hunt for four suicide bombers, Britain�s top cop warned yesterday. Met Police Commiss
147 Banco : No, that's not quite what I mean. It may have been the case that the police did everything absolutely correctly and made a judgement call that they c
148 Banco : Hmm. Let me guess here: I'll bet the question was something along the lines of "Can you guarantee that this will never happen again?". What else coul
149 ME AVN FAN : -> of course, but the whole matter is nevertheless a mistake/misunderstanding, whatever. And why did they allow a "suspect" to get onto a bus ! and t
150 Banco : I said elsewhere that I believe this to be a red-herring. Had the police simply been out to get him they ould have shot him there and then. The point
151 Post contains images Gman94 : Banco, I wouldn't waste your breath on these guys, I've made 3 posts on this thread similar to yours but some people are incapable of keeping an open
152 JamesAg96 : Tough luck for the Brazilian...hardly the fault of a force trying to protects its people from what it believes to be a threat.
153 Post contains images PerthGloryFan : The point is that they were following him, and it was only when they felt that there was a significant danger of it being a terrorist attack that they
154 Post contains links QANTAS077 : and just a little more food for thought, if this is indeed true then the police are in serious trouble, especially since it now seems they'd not clear
155 Post contains images Banco : You haven't actually bothered to read anything I've written, have you? Your accusation that I am closed-minded is some way wide of the mark.
156 ME AVN FAN : - -> But, if as described here, then they fairly late "realized" that this man might be a terrorist. According to media-reports and also according to
157 Cornish : no the tube bomb at Kings Cross/Russell Square on the Picadilly line was. People really haven't read anything you've written have they Banco - all so
158 Banco : Well, it depends. What will be interesting to hear as the investigation continues is how the police were approaching it at the time. It would seem lo
159 Ryanb741 : Of course I apologised, but I would do the same thing again. BTW, some passengers on the train thanked me as well. This wasn't just an Asian guy on t
160 PPVRA : Agree with you Banco. Well, let's hear the investigation report. If they were poorly identified (other than just the civilian clothes) they might be
161 MD11Engineer : The problem in future will be fanatical white converts, who won't get racially stereotyped. Reid was one and there was a German guy arrested in Israel
162 KiwiNanday : Then there's Timothy McVeigh.... white supremist, but when the bombings happened, everyone looked at the arab world first.
163 Post contains links ME AVN FAN : Interesting news, presented on http://english.aljazeera.net , with details from the Brazilian side. But in the first section some success-news from th
164 Luv2fly : And this adds what, do tell????
165 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : � - - -> well, I am a bit "split" in this matter. On one side I can understand YOU and those other passengers very well indeed. On the other sid
166 Prebennorholm : It is a very sad story. But it may happen tomorrow again. War against terrorism is like any other war, which means that shit happens. The poor guy may
167 MD11Engineer : I wouldn't say that the man has been shot in cold blood. The police officers were probably shit scared that next moment they would be blown apart by a
168 ME AVN FAN : - it is known that he phoned a colleague and announced some delay and then speeded ahead to get to his working place as swiftly as possible. - Exactl
169 Gman94 : The only people being arrogant (though ignorant comes more to mind) is the people who are condemning either the officers involved or the dead suspect
170 PPVRA : Independent commision of the Metropolitan Police report saying that he was actually shot 8 times.
171 GDB : More info is seeping out. He did get on the bus, along with several police officers in plain clothes, clearly the idea was to tail this suspect in the
172 WhiteHatter : A different take on this... How many other people, on suspecting that the guy who had pushed all the wrong buttons in this scenario was a bomber, wou
173 ME AVN FAN : - well, I did NOT and do NOT condemn either the policemen nor the victim. Whenever the known facts still are incomplete (at least those known to me),
174 Gman94 : Im sorry but to have a go out people for coming up with fantastic conclusions based on very little evidence is not arrogant. There is nothing wrong a
175 RobertNL070 : We can all assume that these plain clothes police officers are extremely well-trained, and in all probability, very experienced in their chosen profes
176 Soyuzavia : You're right. It is a risky judgement call, and IMO, a totally unacceptable judgement call. What was stopping him detonating a bomb on the bus? Remem
177 Gman94 : With all due respect Soyuzavia you are not asking questions you are judging the situation with little or no evidence for that judgment. Your reply to
178 ME AVN FAN : -> I basically AGREE, but objected a bit to your style -> Nobody is infallible, everybody may make mistake. THE point however to be made, and THIS IS
179 RobertNL070 : Dear ME AVN FAN, Please don't quote out of context and then proceed to fly off the handle. Thanks very much. Regards, Robert
180 Banco : They're going to. That's already been announced by the government. No compensation is adequate compensation of course.
181 ME AVN FAN : - It is NOT out of context. Why ? Because your statement is tricky. It reads as if you wanted to say that they for sure did NOT make ANY mistake. So
182 ME AVN FAN : - -> Of course, BUT A) the man financially supported his father who was/is suffering of cancer B) the man financially supported his whole family C) a
183 Kilavoud : ME AVN FAN Very good, very righteous told and exact. Helping the surviving family is now the responsability of those who unintentionally took the life
184 RobertNL070 : ME AVN FAN, This is the crux of my statement, nothing tricky. Again, please don't quote out of context. Thanks very much. Regards, Robert
185 ME AVN FAN : -> points towards "serial fire" activated. The actual meaning of course is unclear as many things of the incident are unclear.
186 Lehpron : To be honest, I just don't give a shit anymore. Fear has always been in control, and no fear doesn't mean you're scared. You simply may not want to ha
187 ME AVN FAN : [quote=]shooting suspects in the chest, as is normal to incapacitate but not kill, may set off explosives.[/quote] - - I with surprise have read that
188 Stall : This young man can be considered as an anti terrorism war's 'collateral damage' So what's new ? It simply took place in a western city. So from now on
189 ME AVN FAN : indeed, and in order to survive the danger to become a potential collateral damage object, I in future when in London, will only move very slowly whe
190 QANTAS077 : quite ironic that they mamanged to arrest the right people in the past 24 hrs using a stun gun! to bad they weren't using them when they were tailing
191 ME AVN FAN : - Looks as if they at Manchester-Police have really excellent policemen !
192 Cfalk : Totally different situation. The arrest in Manchester did not involve a guy running into a crowded tube train carrying a backpack.
193 Cfalk : Real life is not like the movies, where the hero is able to shoot the gun out of the suspect's hand. In action, after running a chase, you'd be surpr
194 Gman94 : Your comparing apples and pears, I highly doubt that the two situations are comparable. Whatever happened on Stockwell tube station we'll know in the
195 ME AVN FAN : - of course. But, beyond any doubt, the police-actions yesterday and today were GOOD performances. Hope that at least one of the others also get caug
196 Post contains links MD11Engineer : From the BBC: The Brazilian guy shot by British police has entered the UK legally in 2002, but let his visa expire and had apparently forged a stamp i
197 Post contains images Cfalk : Hehe now is the time to go after all the other illegals in London. Few will dare make a run for it.
198 DL021 : Well, that certainly explains why he was running and acting all hinky. Anyone knows why he was wearing an overcoat in the summertime? I guess that ill
199 ME AVN FAN : -> so that it was a combination of his being late for work and when hearing "police" thinking about his illegal stay. If you overstay your visa in Br
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