Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7336 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1183 times:
Hopefully the interrgators won't go easy on them. Send 'em to Club G'itmo.
Scbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 11366 posts, RR: 50 Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1176 times:
Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 2): Hopefully the interrgators won't go easy on them.
While anti-terrorist legislation in the UK allows, with a judge's permission, the detaining of a terrorist suspect for an extended period of time without charge, due process is still followed. They will be allowed legal representation at all times.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12715 posts, RR: 80 Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1144 times:
No, we won't take them to Gitmo because;
a) Torture does not work.
b) It would be a PR disaster.
c) These are high grade catches, real terrorists, as opposed to whoever the Afghan Northern Alliance felt like handing over to the US, (for cash), so mostly low grade Taliban foot-soldiers or anyone who happened to piss off the NA, in the Cuban sun.
d) We know torture does not work, but these four thought they'd die instantly and go to paradise, now they face the rest of their lives in Belmarsh prison, so some or all may crack under proper, rigorous, skilled interrogation, which also preserves the basic rule of law in this country.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1142 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 5): d) We know torture does not work, but these four thought they'd die instantly and go to paradise, now they face the rest of their lives in Belmarsh prison, so some or all may crack under proper, rigorous, skilled interrogation, which also preserves the basic rule of law in this country.
And that is the happiest thought of all. Justice can, ever so sometimes, actually win, and the universe continues to unfold as it should. Well done coppers, nice to see hard work pay off.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1127 times:
I'll echo those praising the swift and effective work of the Met here. Within a week, it seems they've tracked them all down and caught them - and alive too. We all know the immense pressure they're under right now, so a few words of unreserved praise are in order.
And yes, GDB is right. We'll be putting this lot through the full judicial process, and they can sit and stew over what they tried to do for the next forty years.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12715 posts, RR: 80 Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1056 times:
And Kudos to the Italian Police in Rome too.
Does not mean there are not others out there, preparing.
But now they face possibly unreliable bombs and the prospect of not eternal paradise, but something that would feel like eternity, but served at Her Majesties Pleasure.
JamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1045 times:
Great job...but wasn't it the Yanks that wanted to pick up one of the guys associated with the attacks...and were denied by the Brits because he was a British citizen? That was a great decision.
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1): Maybe the UK wont feel the need to declare war on an entire country to bring the "alleged" bombers to justice.
Meaning what? Also, I love the clever usage of "alleged"...
NYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1381 posts, RR: 10 Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1035 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 5): No, we won't take them to Gitmo because;
a) Torture does not work.
b) It would be a PR disaster.
c) These are high grade catches, real terrorists, as opposed to whoever the Afghan Northern Alliance felt like handing over to the US, (for cash), so mostly low grade Taliban foot-soldiers or anyone who happened to piss off the NA, in the Cuban sun.
d) We know torture does not work, but these four thought they'd die instantly and go to paradise, now they face the rest of their lives in Belmarsh prison, so some or all may crack under proper, rigorous, skilled interrogation, which also preserves the basic rule of law in this country.
Good work by the Met.
Well said, GDB!
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 11): While large, socially challenged fellow prisoners teach them the true meaning of terror. Have fun, boys.
I hope these four guys end up in cells with the angriest, most sexually frustrated rapists and pedolphiles that the United Kingdom has to offer.
JamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1028 times:
Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 19): Quoting GDB (Reply 5):
No, we won't take them to Gitmo because;
a) Torture does not work.
b) It would be a PR disaster.
c) These are high grade catches, real terrorists, as opposed to whoever the Afghan Northern Alliance felt like handing over to the US, (for cash), so mostly low grade Taliban foot-soldiers or anyone who happened to piss off the NA, in the Cuban sun.
d) We know torture does not work, but these four thought they'd die instantly and go to paradise, now they face the rest of their lives in Belmarsh prison, so some or all may crack under proper, rigorous, skilled interrogation, which also preserves the basic rule of law in this country.
Good work by the Met.
Well said, GDB!
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 11):
While large, socially challenged fellow prisoners teach them the true meaning of terror. Have fun, boys.
I hope these four guys end up in cells with the angriest, most sexually frustrated rapists and pedolphiles that the United Kingdom has to offer.
Interesting comments...so for these guys:
Gitmo and "torture"-Bad....sexually frustrated rapists and pedophiles-Good.
SamL From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 162 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1008 times:
Indeed well done to the police in London and Italy.
However, I am the only person who feels slightly uneasy with these people being labelled "the bombers." The simple fact is that in the UK, we have this tradition called "justice." One of the principles of this system is that an individual is innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law. These guys haven't actually been tried or convicted on anything. Fair enough the evidence against them may appear compelling but it seems to me completely out of order to label someone a criminal who hasn't been through the court system. In particular I think these guys right to a fair trail has been seriously compromised, how is any jury in the world going to be able to sit through a trial for these guys without "knowing" at the start that they are guilty.
NYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1381 posts, RR: 10 Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1003 times:
Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 20): Interesting comments...so for these guys:
Gitmo and "torture"-Bad....sexually frustrated rapists and pedophiles-Good.
Gotcha
You're darn right! And no, I'm not contradicting myself, as you try to imply:
1) The 4 bombers are guilty, hands down. These guys are terrorists, the real deal. The Gitmo guys are low level Talibans who haven't been charged or convicted of anything, just suspected of collaborating with the enemy.
2) Gitmo torture is government-sponsored torture. That's bad. But nothing wrong with a little rough 'n tumble in the prison cell. Boys will be boys.
Quoting SamL (Reply 22): However, I am the only person who feels slightly uneasy with these people being labelled "the bombers." The simple fact is that in the UK, we have this tradition called "justice." One of the principles of this system is that an individual is innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law. These guys haven't actually been tried or convicted on anything.
They've been caught on tape trying to blow up subways and buses. It doesn't get much more obvious than that.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13343 posts, RR: 64 Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 996 times:
According to a friend I just talked to, who has been a sergeant in the RAF Regiment for 15 years and once had to escort a prisoner to the police station the suspects are being held, this place and the guards are extremely intimidating. My friend is a tough bloke and a veteran of both the Falklands war and Northern Ireland, working as a railway security guard in Germany today, and so has seen a bit, he told me that this place gave even him the creeps even though he was just escorting a prisoner and not a prisoner himself. He said that the guards there have been picked for being big and tough.
Jan
25 NoUFO: Good work, good news, but I'm afraid there are a lot more potential terrorists waiting. Hopefully, the failed attempt of an attack as well as the fort
26 Klaus: The embarrassment of having their presumptive "heroes" jailed and subjected to an impeccably fair justice system can have more and better impact on th
27 Diamond: Unfortunately, I agree with that statement. It seems that in Britain, the goal is to solve the crime, period. In the U.S., the goal is much more abou
28 GDB: I myself always find comments like "I hope they get raped in prison" or "they should be buried in pig fat" and the like, distasteful and to be honest,
29 Boeing Nut: Yea, just about as good as our guys ignoring reports of people taking flight training that didn't want to learn how to take off or land, as well as m
30 NoUFO: Very true. As for the "media soaked age" ... this brings me to a different point: It appears to me that some reports I came across were far too detai
31 JamesAg96: Though I agree with you to a point, it isn't apples and apples. Bureaucracy was the downfall of the FBI with regards to the hijackers of 9/11...suspi
35 ME AVN FAN: -> The Brits will do the prosecution themselves --- and have nice recreational places in Dartmoor -> three were Somalis/Eritreans, the fourth one who
36 Arsenal@LHR: Good work by the Met, once they were captured on the numerous CCTV's on the underground, there was no place to hide. Now is the time to squeeze out as
37 Springbok747: Justice? Those idiots were about to blow up innocent people, and you want them to face justice?! They should be shot...or better still...blow them up
38 AviationMaster: Killing them would be doing them a favour, since death is what they wanted in the first place. Give them a life sentence and let them think about thei
39 MD11Engineer: Also, those blokes are very low on the terrorist food chain, as walking delivery system for explosives they are considered expendable by their leaders
40 DL021: You guys do realize that many of the interrogation techniques used by the Gitmo interrogators were developed in the UK? Calling it torture is not accu
41 ME AVN FAN: - - Justice? deserve? --- you take it the wrong way round. It is NOT those "suspects" who deserve justice. It is Great Britain which deserves to keep
42 Halls120: DL021: "You guys do realize that many of the interrogation techniques used by the Gitmo interrogators were developed in the UK? Calling it torture is
43 GDB: After the early 70's, the 'famous 5' (techniques of sensory deprivation) were outlawed, these had been used in various 'out of area' conflicts that UK
45 KC135R: Good job done by British law enforcement...and swiftly done without the Patriot Act and following due process - the way it should be!
46 GDB: The police were expecting a possible siege and/or gun battle, hence the use of solid shotgun shells to blow open doors, tear gas and possibly, stun gr
47 GVBIG: What's the bets that they get released on bail or something?
48 Catatonic: great.......now let the good old British justice system take care of them........legal aid and appeal after appeal, I think they will serve about the
49 GDB: Wow, whose been reading the Daily Mail this morning? Some perspective, remember the 1980 Iranian Embassy siege? After the Iranian dissidents (armed an
50 Arsenal@LHR: Justice? Those idiots were about to blow up innocent people, and you want them to face justice?! They should be shot...or better still...blow them up.
51 Ryangooner: Its good work all round i agree..... I for one are happy that these 4 were rounded up by such speed.. Has made my long hours and lack of sleep seem al
52 CORULEZ05: really old news and lame....let's move past that. Great that they caught these people. Hopefully, justice is served and they get the appropriate puni
53 Halls120: KC135R: "Good job done by British law enforcement...and swiftly done without the Patriot Act and following due process - the way it should be!" Halls:
54 KC135R: Yes, how about warrantless searches, authorized under the patriot act? Or what about phone taps that can now be done without following due process? H
55 KC135R: By the way, my suggestion is not ill-informed - but you would not know that because you have no idea what, if any, background I may have in this area
56 Halls120: Oh, I see. In your world, an unsupported opinion qualifies as a supportable specific. But yes, I do have some specifics in response for you, taken fr
57 Halls120: Posting an opinion without providing any substance to back it up leaves one open to the charge of being ill-informed. If you have a special backgroun
58 KC135R: Well thank you for the myth vs. fact from the USDOJ website, that certainly clears that up because the DOJ has no vested interest in the patriot act,
59 Halls120: DOJ has a vested interested in ensuring that the PA - a law enacted by Congress - is both Constitutional on its face and applied in a Constitutional
60 KC135R: First of all, I said in my opinion I did not like certain aspects of the patriot act because they seem unconstitutional. I am not a career attorney, I
61 Halls120: I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion. I merely pointed out that I would rely on the finding of the highest court in the land instead of
62 KC135R: The SC is the highest court in the land - and if they deem the PA to be constitutional, there's really little I can do or say to argue otherwise - so
63 ME AVN FAN: I think, US-Americans pay too much importance to their "Patriot Act". THIS has rather been an adaptation of US-laws to what, at least in principle, al
64 747400F: No you are not. These may have done the acts they are accoused of - but have not been tried yet, let alone convicted. In the eye of the law they are
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