Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Vigilantes Too Racist & Mexicans Shoot Back!  
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1568 times:

HOUSTON CHRONICLE
THU 07/28/05

Head of Texas Minutemen quits, cites racism in group
National leaders say plans to patrol Houston still on

By EDWARD HEGSTROM

The head of the Texas Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (Bill Parmley) has quit, saying he has been unable to overcome racism among members in Goliad.

In an interview, Parmley said he has become concerned that some of the Minuteman activists in his region have a vendetta against the Goliad County sheriff, who is Hispanic. He said they also have made comments about shooting illegal immigrants or letting them die from dehydration.

He mocked others in the Minuteman group by describing the way they call all Hispanics "Mexicans" or "Mexkins."

"To old-time South Texas people, it's not about being `Mexkin' or white," Parmley said. "It's about the community."

Parmley said he has continued efforts to maintain good relations with the Goliad chapter of the League of United Latin American Citizens. He said he also proposed having the Minuteman organization buy boxes of drinks that the sheriff could give to dehydrated illegal immigrants after they are captured.

Others in the organization were opposed to the idea, according to Parmley. He quoted one member as saying: "Let the (expletives) die."

It would not be the first derogatory comment made at a Minuteman meeting. Both Parmley and Bee County Sheriff Carlos Carrizales confirm that during a discussion early this year of illegal immigrants on private property in rural Goliad County, one of the residents asked: "Can't we just shoot 'em?' "

===

Brown Berets threaten Minutemen
Group urges group to think twice before patrolling

By Cari Hammerstrom
The (Brownsville, TX) Monitor

PHARR, July 28, 2005 — Once a powerful and militant organization in the Chicano Liberation Movement, the Brown Berets made it known Wednesday that they will oppose the Minutemen border watch group with physical force if necessary.

“We want to send the message, ‘Think twice before you come here,’” Pablo Delgado, a Brown Beret leader, said at a press confer-ence at the Hidalgo County Democratic Party headquarters.

The Minutemen have said they will come to Texas in October, although it is still unclear whether South Texas is in their plans.



http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/ts_more.php?id=66315_0_10_0_C
====



 spin 

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1562 times:

Quoting Brown Berets:
The Minutemen “are nothing more than a group of zealous over-enthusiastic racists

Damn, sounds like he's talking about his own organization.  scratchchin 

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Thread starter):
unable to overcome racism among members in Goliad.

And is anyone really surprised? As far as I'm concerned, illegal immigration is the biggest problems facing the country, but history has proven that vigilantism isn't the way to go. And many of the folks that are drawn to vigilante groups are some of the last ones you want on your side.

Quoting FlyingTexan (Thread starter):
Brown Berets made it known Wednesday that they will oppose the Minutemen border watch group with physical force if necessary.

And this kind of idiocy will only add fuel to the fire.

Duane



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1550 times:

I find this to be funny. I was banned from a so called "conservative" website for pointing out that the MMP was full of racist loons. Their biggest supporters are groups like the National Alliance and Storm Front. Just Google search to learn more about them.

Of course the Brown Berets are no different so to them, "pot meet kettle."



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1545 times:

Hopefully both groups will kill each other off, and we can all move on.  Wink

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2956 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Thread starter):
The head of the Texas Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (Bill Parmley) has quit, saying he has been unable to overcome racism among members in Goliad.

Throughout history racism and immigration have gone hand in hand



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineLegend500 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 144 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1473 times:

Both the TMCDC and the Brown Berets through their fanaticism point out something important: when State and National governments are ineffective at solving a problem, some other nutcase will try to do it for them. The real blame lies not in either the TMCDC (who have a legitimate interest in protecting Texas' borders, but are profoundly misguided) or in the Brown Berets' (who understandably wish to counter racism, but not in a fruitful or constructive manner), but in Austin, Washington DC, Chihuahua, Saltillo, Cd. Victoria and Mexico DF. Political will and financial support can help to come to an equitable solution, but only if the governments along the Texan border pony up.

User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1464 times:

I think it is really sad that this happens. The Minutemen had some very good points to make (like how easy it would be to shut down illegal border crossings if the politicians took their fingers out of their asses), and it's a damn shame to see their efforts hijacked by petty racism.

Charles


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1452 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 7):
The Minutemen had some very good points to make (like how easy it would be to shut down illegal border crossings if the politicians took their fingers out of their asses), and it's a damn shame to see their efforts hijacked by petty racism.

Maybe so, Charles, but didn't those of use who opposed this whole Minutemen idea from the beginning say this would happen-that it would fill up with a ton of racists goons, who's sole motivation was racism, and the desire to keep anything that wasn't white on the other side of the border?

Who is really surprised by this? Didn't we have something similar at San Diego Airport, with a vigilante group hanging out there, looking for illegals, or some other nonsense?

First, the border does NOT need shut-that's extremism of the worst kind. It's xenephobia; it's racism; it's wrong. What is needed is for the U.S. to help Mexico raise it's standard of living so people will WANT to stay in Mexico. Obviously, NAFTA hasn't worked, if illegals are still flooding our borders in search of a more dignified existence.

Get rid of this damn program. It's just another post 9/11 black eye to the image of this country.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
What is needed is for the U.S. to help Mexico raise it's standard of living so people will WANT to stay in Mexico

This is the main reason whywe have the structural funds subsidies in the EU. The idea is to get the living standards across the EU to an approximately equal level, or at least to to prevent drastic differences. If people are content in their own countries , there is less likely chance of trouble.

Jan


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1432 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
If people are content in their own countries , there is less likely chance of trouble.

And that alone makes a financial investment worth it right there-everyone wins, then.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1422 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
First, the border does NOT need shut-that's extremism of the worst kind. It's xenephobia; it's racism; it's wrong. What is needed is for the U.S. to help Mexico raise it's standard of living so people will WANT to stay in Mexico.

Sorry, but any nation should be able to control who comes into the country. That is normally done through border controls, visas, green cards, work permits, etc. What you are advocating is pure chaos, with a whole class of citizens who do not fulfill their obligations to society (don't pay taxes), don't qualify for the protections that society affords to legal workers (minimum wages, unemployment benefits, healthcare, etc.) and otherwise cannot or do not conform to society, like insure their cars. You are advocating a maintainance of a sub-class of society - liberated of all societal norms. Some liberal you are!

In addition, you advocate the non-control of criminals coming into the U.S. While 90% of mexican migrants are just looking for an honest job, you still have a sizable portion of immigrants who have substantial criminal records, who the U.S. should be turning back at the border, with a "You are NOT welcome here".

You also have the possibility that terrorists will one day realize that they can sneak into the U.S. that way, thus bypassing all the fancy immigration controls that you have at the airports, making them useless.

I'm all for economic migration. European countries have been doing it for years and years, from Turkey and other places. Turkish, Portugese, Italians and others have been brought into Switzerland for decades, and eventually qualify for citizenship. But it is controlled. The U.S. needs Mexican labor, but let it be controlled, with work permits, legal protections for the workers, minimum wage etc..

Mexico has been corrupt at its highest levels ever since before the Spanish left 200 years ago. What makes you think that culture can be changed in just a few short years? Especially when there is no incentive for the government to shape up, when they can simply export their unwanted, unemployed masses to the north? As an added bonus, many of those people end up sending a lot of money back home to Mexico. I understand that the Mexican government actually produces handouts and pamphlets for people attempting to cross illegally, telling them where are the best places to do it, at what times of day, etc.

All nations have a responsibility and a requirement to know who is in their country. What you propose is irresponsible.

Charles


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1417 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 11):
Sorry, but any nation should be able to control who comes into the country.

I didn't say it shouldn't control it's border, Charles, it should, no doubt. It should. But our border can't be CLOSED. We're not the USSR here, if you didn't realize that. We don't need to arm our boder with thousands of troops, and to completly shut the border. That is, as I said, xenophobic and pure racism. I doubt we'd do that if there was a problem with lily-white Canadians, do you?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 11):
What you propose is irresponsible.

Good God, Charles, all I "proposed" was helping Mexico raise it's standard of living so these people DON'T come across to here! And all I did was say this vigilantism isn't the answer.

You read WAY too much into what I said, dude. Way too much.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1409 times:

Most people, if their standard of living is adequate, prefer tostay in their own country, city, village.

Now, on the other hand, who does profit from a free trade zone between a really rich country and a poor country with low living standards? It is mainly big business, who can outsource manual labour to the cheap country. Due to the low wages paid, it doesn't really increase the living standard in the poor country, but at the same time increases profits in the rich country.

Jan


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
I didn't say it shouldn't control it's border, Charles, it should, no doubt. It should. But our border can't be CLOSED. We're not the USSR here, if you didn't realize that. We don't need to arm our boder with thousands of troops, and to completly shut the border.

You jumped on my case for proposing to shut down ILLEGAL immigration - i.e. all the places where people cross over the Rio Grande or the desert at the dead of night. I never said, nor did I even come close to saying that the hundreds of legal crossing points, with immigrations and customs officers, should not remain open for business. It is simply a question of making the illegal crossing points no longer a viable option for illegal immigrants, drug smugglers, and undesirables crossing over (criminals and terrorists).

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
First, the border does NOT need shut-that's extremism of the worst kind. It's xenephobia; it's racism; it's wrong. What is needed is for the U.S. to help Mexico raise it's standard of living so people will WANT to stay in Mexico.

You've reversed your position and are now trying to save face. You clearly said earlier that you don't see any reason to control immigration, but rather to improve the Mexican government's management of their economy. How would you propose to do that? I see 2 options: 1) Let open borders for trade take its course (that will take 50 to 100 years) and 2) an Iraq-style invasion and reinvent the government. I doubt option 2 will be very popular, and the first one takes too long for the MTV generation, and leaves the question on what to do in the meantime about the border.

Charles


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
Now, on the other hand, who does profit from a free trade zone between a really rich country and a poor country with low living standards? It is mainly big business, who can outsource manual labour to the cheap country. Due to the low wages paid, it doesn't really increase the living standard in the poor country, but at the same time increases profits in the rich country.

The poorer country is always the biggest beneficiary. Why do you think that workers in poor countries will take a job at $10 per day? Because they have something like 30 or 40% unemplyoment, that's why. That $10 per day job is probably a pretty good wage there, and if he did not have that job, he would have no job, in a country too poor to give any unemployment support. That is a net benefit for the poor country.

As the poor country attracts more and more export-related production, its unemployment rates go down, which pushes wages upwards. The $10 per day wage becomes $20, then $50, then $200, etc. The living standards of the poor country starts rising much, much faster than it could have on its own. Wanna see examples? How about Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, post-war Germany, all of which have grown tremendously due mainly to exports.

This is very basic economics.

Charles


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
Now, on the other hand, who does profit from a free trade zone between a really rich country and a poor country with low living standards? It is mainly big business, who can outsource manual labour to the cheap country.

My dad used almost the exact words to me the other day, MD11, in discussing this issue. Almost to the letter. Well done.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 14):
You've reversed your position and are now trying to save face.

In a word-bull cookies, Charles. I haven't reversed anything. Read what I said. It's consistent. You're the one wanting to completely shut the border, not me. I said that 1. We SHOULD monitor the border, to keep illegals out, but we DON'T need to close it, or have armed vigilantes running around, and that 2. We should do all we can to help raise the standard of living in Mexico so that fewer and fewer people would want to cross the border.

That's what I said. No saving face here. I dont' need to save face with you.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1383 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
You're the one wanting to completely shut the border, not me.

Show me where I said that.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
I said that 1. We SHOULD monitor the border,

Show me where you said that.

[Edited 2005-07-30 17:17:57]

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1378 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Show me where you said that.

Read reply 12, bucko. I won't help you find it.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1375 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
Read reply 12, bucko. I won't help you find it.

Reply 12 was after I called you on the BS you were selling, in reply 11. You're still reversing yourself, I'm afraid.

Once again, where did you say, prior to reply 11, that "We SHOULD monitor the border" or words to that effect?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1372 times:

Whatever Charles, you're making something out of nothing. I said at the beginning I was against CLOSING THE BORDER. I never EVER said I was against patrolling or monotoring it. I am against "patrolling" it with these xenophobic vigilantes. That's not the way to do it.

Get your head out in the sunshine, Charles. End of discussion.

[Edited 2005-07-30 17:30:37]

User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1368 times:

Falcon, when caught standing in a pile of BS of your own making, you have to have the guts to say, "Oops, you got me there". It's happened to me too.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1338 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 2):
, illegal immigration is the biggest problems facing the country

Try one of the only things currently holding our horrible economy up



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 5):

Throughout history racism and immigration have gone hand in hand

Human nature dictates us to make fun of or pick on something we do not understand..



Go big or go home
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Try one of the only things currently holding our horrible economy up

I see someone has not been reading...

So you think that having a sub-class of people is ok then? A class of people that have no minimum wage, who are made to work in unsafe conditions because their employers know they can't go running to the authorities? Great values... Why not bring back slavery while you're at it.

I'm all for immigration, but make it legal, with a guestworker program, and citizenship after 5 or 10 years of good behaviour.

Charles


25 ANCFlyer : Well, this has been an interesting thread . . . . Before I respond to some of the posts . . . . I was/am all for this action on the Border . . . and I
26 L410Turbolet : Isn't one dead guy one too many? ANC, I thought you have some background or ties to law enforcement? I'm surprised you are advocating leaving the bor
27 Pdpsol : You are COMPLETELY mistaken in your comments regarding the North American Free Trade Agreement [NAFTA], ratified by the US, Mexico and Canada in the
28 Falcon84 : Sure, that's why illegals are still flooding in here. If it had been a real success, the poor and middle class in Mexico would be booming, which is w
29 Pdpsol : The objective of the NAFTA accord signatories was to develop trade and economic ties between their respective states, increase economic efficiency an
30 ANCFlyer : Did you not read what I wrote? How much clearer do you need it? Because they are ineffective and inadequate. Simple as that. They suck. And it's not
31 Cfalk : Do you feel the same way for the emplyees of Toyota, Nissan, Honda, etc. which are made in the US? BMW makes all their sports cars and SUV's in the U
32 JamesAg96 : Interesting thread...fun watching folks get caught up in their own talking points. First off...these idiots are from Goliad, I am not surprised. But b
33 Post contains images FlyingTexan : It is interesting I have yet to see a thought along the lines of *which group is threatening illegal actions… Falcon – I’m pleasantly surprised
34 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Humorously, CFalk - I only buy Big Ass Ford Diesel Trucks, so I could give a shit less about Toyota, Nissan, Bmer, or any other automotive manufactur
35 Theredbaron : Excelent POSt, its nice to see real informed people here... Those rich and benefited are US companies that profit from those low wages, its part of w
36 FlyingTexan : Do you have a source for this? I’m not challenging the info; I just want to read more about it. Specifically, the amount illegals send back home. I
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Sam & Max Are Back posted Wed Sep 13 2006 00:04:13 by KaiGywer
Dem Congresswoman Brown & Racist Remarks posted Sat Feb 28 2004 14:24:02 by Galaxy5
I Take It All Back - The French Are Great Too! posted Mon Jul 21 2003 11:17:57 by CHRISBA777ER
George W Bush Classics, Sit Back & Enjoy! posted Fri Feb 7 2003 14:54:39 by Keesje
Wallace & Gromit >>>>>>>> Back posted Fri Jan 25 2002 03:03:12 by NBC News1
Bush Projected Win Taken Back..Florida Too Close posted Wed Nov 8 2000 10:07:23 by Surf
Give Us Back New York posted Mon Nov 20 2006 19:10:47 by BR076
Clear Channel To Sell 448 Radio & 42 Tv Stations posted Sat Nov 18 2006 07:20:19 by STLGph
Is "Stupid Indian" Racist Or Not? posted Sat Nov 18 2006 06:01:30 by Don
A.net's Vacation Ends: UTA Back Tomorrow posted Thu Nov 16 2006 21:54:01 by Runway23