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Our Prez: Dunce Or Whore To The Evangelo-Right?  
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1716 times:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2005/08/02/AR2005080201686.html

What is wrong with this man? Whenever I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, he shows what an imbecile he is. Is it no wonder that we as a nation are falling behind in teaching science to our young minds when this !#$!@$@# spews such nonsense. Religion is a matter of deep personal faith, that cannot be explained by scientific rationalism, and I respect an individual's need for their religious beliefs. Why can't this man and his hordes from the flat earth society respect the tenets of scientific teaching? Why do they insist on hijacking science just in order to pursue their agenda?

Excerpts:

Bush Remarks On 'Intelligent Design' Theory Fuel Debate

By Peter Baker and Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, August 3, 2005; Page A01

President Bush invigorated proponents of teaching alternatives to evolution in public schools with remarks saying that schoolchildren should be taught about "intelligent design," a view of creation that challenges established scientific thinking and promotes the idea that an unseen force is behind the development of humanity.

Although he said that curriculum decisions should be made by school districts rather than the federal government, Bush told Texas newspaper reporters in a group interview at the White House on Monday that he believes that intelligent design should be taught alongside evolution as competing theories.


98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1709 times:

That's a basic religious-right mantra: put "Intelligent design" right next to Evolution in classrooms, public or private.

I don't believe in it, but the far right does-indeed, they'd rather not teach evolution at all. I guess they don't believe in science.  Smile

Again, what you personally believe is one thing-but for Bush and the righties to try and shove creationism down the throats of a society that, for many, don't believe in it, is bollocks. "Intelligent Design" isn't science-it's personal religious beliefs, and has no place in public school classrooms.

And if Bush believes in "Intelligent Design", how does he account for himself?  Big grin


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

Do you guys think that evolution can not possibly be the product of the Creators thinking? Is it not the most logical means to develop the different species present here in our reality?  scratchchin  hmmm....


To answer the question posed in the opener.....this is a go nowhere bow to the religious right, that I find somewhat distasteful, but there is nothing to say that it isn't correct either.

Anything we believe about what sparked off life is based on faith in something....whether its science or religion. We weren't there, and the means of exploring that far back are either theoretical models or presumptions based on observation and deduction then extrapolation to account for the billions of years we can't possibly explore with current tech.

Last thing......tell me which president has not occasionally done something that was an obvious bone tosser to the more far reaching, shall we say, branches of their base?



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1696 times:

Ian, Evolution is a scientific theory. Creationism is more a religious than scientific theory. They're apples and oranges. One should be taught in church, one in school. I don't want right-wing, Christion theology taught in public schools, period. 'Nuff said. Keep that stuff out of schools.

User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1694 times:

what scares me is that Dubya thinks he's an expert on education.

Let's face it, he's hardly a role model to get kids to study. You can see your average American kid thinking, if I don't study, get poor grades, grow up thick as shit, I could become President one day too  Wink



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):
Last thing......tell me which president has not occasionally done something that was an obvious bone tosser to the more far reaching, shall we say, branches of their base?

But none has been quite as extreme as this one. Or, perhaps, quite as shameless. Or stupid.

Even Reagan, who professed his faith in public, never EVER waded into this muck.

Intelligent design isn't science. Its a belief system. Until there is evidence to the contrary, lets not muddy the waters. If intelligent design must be taught, teach it as part of Sunday school.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1672 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
expert on education

Well he is married to a teacher right??? So I guess that means I could marry an astronaut and be qualified to fly the Space Shuttle right?!?!?!?!

This administration can't end fast enough.. I can't wait till the grand jusry comes back with a BOATLOAD of indictments. Not that a boatload will occur, but I can wish it'd be more then the equilivent of a Martha Stuart slap on the hand for perjury.


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

Nothing new.. that man proves in public in a daily manner what big idiot he is...

User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 5):
Intelligent design isn't science. Its a belief system. Until there is evidence to the contrary, lets not muddy the waters. If intelligent design must be taught, teach it as part of Sunday school.

I agree with the above completely. That said, calling people who believe in the concept of intelligent design "imbecile," "dunce," or "whore" is unwarranted, and detracts from the strength of your argument.

I once carpooled with a person who was a devout believer in intelligent design. We had many, many debates on the issue, and the rest of us couldn't convince him of the error of his ways. He had a B.S. and Master's degree in naval architecture, so I could hardly say that he wasn't an intelligent individual - just misguided.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

He's both.

Plus an evil warmongerer.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13647 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1641 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Our Prez: Dunce Or Whore To The Evangelo-Right?

None of the above.

But thanks for being so open-minded and providing many choices.  sarcastic 



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
And if Bush believes in "Intelligent Design", how does he account for himself?

 rotfl 

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
You can see your average American kid thinking, if I don't study, get poor grades, grow up thick as shit, I could become President one day too

That logic was oft used against his predecessor.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 6):
Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
expert on education

Well he is married to a teacher right???

Public school teacher; later a librarian. Closest he ever got to books.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17663 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1629 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
f I don't study, get poor grades, grow up thick as shit, I could become President one day too

Or John Kerry  Silly



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

Bush doesn't care about creating a 'culture of life' or about whether evolution is taught in schools. He is largely about catering to people who vote on single issues, like abortion or gay marriage or whatever, although he personally couldn't care less.

Cairo


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1606 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
if I don't study, get poor grades, grow up thick as shit, I could become President one day too

Well, if you weren't born in the US, or born to US parents than you can't. Sorry Cornish.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

Quoting Cairo (Reply 13):
Bush doesn't care about creating a 'culture of life' or about whether evolution is taught in schools. He is largely about catering to people who vote on single issues, like abortion or gay marriage or whatever, although he personally couldn't care less

Oh, so I guess you've spent a lot of close personal time with Mr. Bush, right? Or perhaps you are his undisclosed biographer?

I get it - you are Karl Rove, right?!?!?!?


User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1569 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 15):
Oh, so I guess you've spent a lot of close personal time with Mr. Bush, right? Or perhaps you are his undisclosed biographer?

I get it - you are Karl Rove, right?!?!?!?

I went to UT while he was governor and worked at the capitol. Several of my college friends are lowish level staffers in the administration, including the esteemed press secretary. None of these issues are important to him and he was never passionate about them in related legislation in Texas. He became concerned about them when it was determined certain people vote for a president based on single issues.

Cairo


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

I've come to believe that President Bush is far smarter than many of us give him credit for, and that in itself terrifies me. In public he portray's the simple folksy man, overly controlled by his handlers. By doing this all problems devolve to his staff, leaving him relatively unharmed.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 16):
None of these issues are important to him and he was never passionate about them in related legislation in Texas. He became concerned about them when it was determined certain people vote for a president based on single issues.

This I believe is the true face of President Bush - a master manipulator. I honestly don't know what his goals are, where he is trying to get to. But he has become adept at manipulating the public and our government, and I really worry about what he's capable of in the next three years.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4125 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1543 times:

For the life of me, I can't understand how Evolution can be taught along with Creationism in a Public school. A huge misconception among creationists (and evolution proponents who didn't do their homework) is that evolution DOES NOT provide an answer to the creation of life. "Origin of Species" doesn't mean Origin of Life. Nor does it say that humans evolved from monkeys. Evolution DOES show scientific evidence of species adapting to their enviornment by Genetic Drift and Natural Selection.

I am open to a theory that the Creator mixed in the ingredients and watched as life evolved, but that is PERSONAL interpretation and doesn't belong in a school. What we see here is more and more of the arrogant religious right thinking that they have all of the right answers.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 17):
This I believe is the true face of President Bush - a master manipulator. I honestly don't know what his goals are, where he is trying to get to. But he has become adept at manipulating the public and our government, and I really worry about what he's capable of in the next three years.

wrong, he is as clueless as Reagan who just reads what script he is handed and acts like your buddy next door to attrack people to your "easy going" personality. The master manipulators are Cheney, Rove, et al


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1530 times:

Quoting B744F (Reply 19):
wrong, he is as clueless as Reagan who just reads what script he is handed and acts like your buddy next door to attrack people to your "easy going" personality. The master manipulators are Cheney, Rove, et al

As usual I disagree with you, but since it's all opinion, it doesn't really matter what either of us think.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 20):
As usual I disagree with you, but since it's all opinion, it doesn't really matter what either of us think.

Good for you. Look at the man speak and you will understand he doesn't have the brain capacity to really know the topics he is talking about. He doesn't set the record for least amount of press conferences and non-scripted conferences just because he feels like it...


User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Ian, Evolution is a scientific theory. Creationism is more a religious than scientific theory. They're apples and oranges. One should be taught in church, one in school. I don't want right-wing, Christion theology taught in public schools, period. 'Nuff said. Keep that stuff out of schools.

I am a believer in education, a tradition that was instilled in me by my parents. I feel that education should be a experience of broad views, cultures and beliefs. Why are all of the atheists of this country so consumed with barring any reference of religion from modern life while extolling the value of human intelligence? I'll tell you this if they really thought of the human mind as highly as they profess they would allow children to get a FULL education and let them through their years of studies formulate their own conclusions. What many propose in this thread is akin to educational censorship. I guarantee you that all those who lambast religion are ardent supporters of Sex ED in their government schools.

Well America has always valued a cheap f**k over morality and intellectual advancement.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1526 times:

Children should be taught everything, not just one or the other, it's as simple as that.

User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4125 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 22):
What many propose in this thread is akin to educational censorship. I guarantee you that all those who lambast religion are ardent supporters of Sex ED in their government schools

Children can learn about the Creation arguement, but is it so bad to let them learn it in Sunday School? Making children learn about only the Christian point of view speaks more than just letting kids "learn both sides of the arguement."



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
25 Flybyguy : I said a FULL education... NO WHERE did I say that the Christian point of view is the only point of view. I trust that our education system can produ
26 FlyingTexan : Yea, he acts like the common man next door, truth is – W is an elitist born with a silver spoon into aristocracy. And when the big Dick kicks the b
27 Halls120 : It could also be the fact that he has shown that he doesn't need to hold those press conferences where he is faced with an invariably hostile press.
28 Post contains images FlyingTexan : Planted reporters in press conferences like Jim Guckert (dba Jim Gannon) under the employ of Talon News, affiliated with Texas Republicans. Jimmy has
29 Post contains images TedTAce : you are so whacked.. Equating the style of W to Regan is as ignorant as saying 'all blacks steal'. You obviously never watched Regan in a debate whic
30 Halls120 : Are you going to tell me that Helen Thomas isn't hostile? The dean of the WH press corps, who was recently quoted as saying she'd kill herself if Che
31 Psa53 : Yes! I wonder why,TedTAce.
32 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Or Rsmith with a new identity
33 Post contains images TedTAce : You wonder because you don't have enough intelligence to figure it out for yourself.. The Springerization of America continues.. [Edited 2005-08-04 0
34 Mdsh00 : Sorry. It wasn't directed at you but those that propose only the Christian idea being taught. One thing I disagree with you on is that learning/teach
35 PA110 : The timing of this thread could not be better! I just finished reading Charles Krauthammer's essay in TIME magazine entitled: Let's Have No More Monke
36 Post contains images TedTAce : Beautiful point
37 Post contains images Barcode : Do they not teach philosophy or religious education in American high schools? I came across I.D when I took A-Level Philosophy some years ago. As I re
38 Cfalk : There is a great deal of spin involved in the article quoted in the thread starter. "Intelligent design" is not a competing theory to evolution. It is
39 Barcode : As I understand it, the issue is not whether it should be taught - but where it is appropriate to do so. If you are going to allow I.D into a science
40 Aerorobnz : I had both points of view growing up, and I'm still athiest, so I strongly believe we should learn everything and then decide, but I think they shoul
41 Cfalk : I agree that that would be the best place to put it. Unfortunately, public schools are not allowed to have such courses, thanks to the ACLU and simil
42 DL021 : The best way to prevent views you don't like from being spread is to prevent them from being discussed during the learning process. Why should there n
43 Halls120 : Because religion is a purely personal and private matter, to be taught in church and in the home - not in the public schools.
44 Jaysit : Most classes on evolution teach how the theory of evolution came about, and the evidence to support it - as well as the gaps that exist. There is, ho
45 DL021 : "Quoting DL021 (Reply 42): The best way to prevent views you don't like from being spread is to prevent them from being discussed during the learning
46 Gary2880 : can i vote for both?
47 FDXMECH : Very good post. The multitude of Bush detractors seem to forget the tenet of not underestimating your adversary. Whether pride or prejudice causes th
48 Jaysit : It isn't an issue of being superior or not. GWB is an astute politician. And surrounds himself with those who are too. He isn't a folksy bumpkin at a
49 Post contains images TedTAce : The catholic Church also used to say the world was going to end every 100 or 1,000 years or so. After about 4-5 times of looking like idiots when the
50 FDXMECH : Jaysit I normally agree with your posts or the very least give them serious consideration, this post no exception. "Superior", was a poor choice of wo
51 Cfalk : You are spinning. Here is what he said, ""I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. " You're as
52 DL021 : SOCS issues aside.. Because to do it "fairly" you'd have to have a theology class that taught the tennants of all religions. The thought of getting a
53 B744F : Reagans grasp of the world was simplistic. He even declared there was no such thing as a homeless person! Reading books about Paul Volker and Alan Gr
54 Jaysit : No, you're spinning. He was specifically asked if ID should be taught as a competing theory along with evolution. And he said YES. I'm not. Read my e
55 Cfalk : If that was the question (I have never seen the exact quote), then that is why Bush correctly rephrased it. The question is flawed, because it descri
56 Halls120 : Because I'm not confident in the ability of the public school system to teach religion without trampling on the rights of the 50% of Americans who do
57 Cfalk : The education is the same for all. Atheists should learn it too. "Here is Toaism. Toaism is based in this place, they beleive in that and is very pop
58 TedTAce : Good thought out points.... Here's the deal... Setup a business called "all religions school". Charge tuition for for the education of 'all religions
59 DL021 : "If it doesn't make sense for business why should it be in our schools?!??! " Then, by those standards, they should eliminate the study of philosophy,
60 Halls120 : You are presuming that the teachers will limit themselves to teaching instead of indoctrination. Since I've witnessed my children being subjected to
61 TedTAce : Double negatives... hummm
62 Cfalk : Ted, chill out. First of all, an education of comparative religions is hardly going to be fairly given at home or in church, especially if the family
63 DL021 : Now there's a decent argument, because you are delving into reality post rather than projection ante. I do believe that teachers are not to be trusted
64 Post contains images TedTAce : I'm revved up by this and a certain other user's apparent re-appearence... Who cares? This is why religion is bad...if you don't believe ours you are
65 Halls120 : Touche. But it's late, I'm tired, and posting in between looking for a cheap flight to the west coast to be with my dad when he has surgery week afte
66 Logan22L : Ted, for this very statement, you have earned my respect. My RU list is full, so you'll have to take my word for it. Historically, religion has done
67 B744F : Please don't confuse religion with greed, thanks.
68 Post contains images KC135R : My God we agree on something....Actually we probably agree on more than this, but this is the first time it has come to light. It's not the job of pu
69 Barcode : You appear to know little about Atheism. You might as well substitute god for atheist in your post and it would mean the same. Children are not born
70 Cfalk : That's agnosticism, not atheism.
71 Barcode : An absence of belief is not tantamount to "I don't know." I see no rationally compelling evidence for god's existence, hence I draw what seems to be t
72 DL021 : Barcode.....Beg to differ here, despite what you want to call them, the beliefs you describe make you a deist, or a religious person. Examine the very
73 Barcode : With respect, I think you have misunderstood me. I have said my view is consistent with the view god exists. This does not entail the further proposit
74 Jaysit : A public school has no responsibility to teach unproven nonsense in a science class. Today ID, tomorrow scientology?
75 Post contains images DL021 : Barcode......if your position is that you are unsure about what is what, but do not deny that God may exist in some form , then you are by definition
76 Post contains images Mrniji : Ian, question to you: Would you support that apart from Christian thought the 'doctrines' of other religions, as Hindu thought, Islam, Buddhist etc a
77 Post contains images TedTAce : Thanks for the thought. So long as I'm ahead of ErikWilliam, I'm fine Please explain the diference.. I think this is my quote of the year.... at leas
78 Jaysit : I don't. All that I advocate is that the teaching of ID in a science class as a competing valid theory to evolution is misplaced and wrong. So where
79 DL021 : Mrniji.....If I misunderstand that question please correct me. I feel that all religions should be discussed and studied in schools, from animism to z
80 Post contains images Mrniji : no, you got it thanks OK, we are talking about ID classes.. but again trying to remember my high school , I had a class called contemporary relations
81 Cfalk : As far as explaining what it is and how/why some people believe in it, of course. Absolutely. Kids leaving high school should be at least conversant
82 Erikwilliam : Hey.....not fair Teddy
83 Post contains images TedTAce : Much love man, Much Love
84 Daedaeg : If there is no competing theory to evolution available to students in public schools, then maybe it shouldn't be taught at all. Why should those of us
85 Jaysit : We're dealing with high school here, not Harvard or the Sorbonne. One class per issue would be quite adequate, rather than nothing at all.
86 KiwiNanday : Survey Says: WHORE TO THE EVANGELO-RIGHT!
87 Seb146 : So, it is okay to teach a religious based theory in school (which is funded by the government) but how dare we deal with self-esteem issues and the fa
88 DL021 : I do have a problem with the fact that I don't think the majority of teachers are qualified to properly teach this, therefore would need to learn this
89 KiwiNanday : i LOVE being asinine! But I was joking around. Although, there IS a law requiring seperation of church and state... so public schools better not start
90 Searpqx : No, the 'theory' of evolution is indeed backed by scientific fact just as is the 'theory' of gravity. The word theory as used in science means: "A se
91 DL021 : Kiwinanday- But I was joking around. Although, there IS a law requiring seperation of church and state... so public schools better not start teaching
92 TedTAce : The "Law" is not a "Law"; it's an ammendment to the constitution... The Ammendment (much to my chagrin) MERELY states (Paraphrasing) that the governm
93 Cfalk : Sorry, but no. Evolution is a theory which has proven to be true, because of all the scientific evidence that has been accumulated over the years. Wh
94 Barcode : I'm curious. If we're going to teach children about the major religions, do we also mention Atheism? After all, to ignore it would be to ignore somet
95 Cfalk : Yes, of course. Haven't I made my position absolutely clear on that? Agreed. Agreed. Which is why the subject, in a public school, should have a very
96 Cfalk : Here is a good teaching aid for public school introduction to religions and philosophies (With thanks from GOYK.com) Taoism: Shit happens. Confucianis
97 Post contains images StowAway : Nothing has changed.
98 Halls120 : No need to apologize, indoctrination is exactly what would happen in the majority of US public schools.
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