Mx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1210 times:
I came accross these disturbing articles a few days ago and decided I would share them with your all. This is not a post intended to degrade the Chinese people nor is it intended to start a war on the issue. I just want to see what everyone thinks.
The whole idea of eating mans best friend appals me, having said that I have no right to tell people from other cultures what they can and cannot do. I understand that many people's around the world eat many different things that may seem repulsive to us in the west. (I mean we eat McDonalds - that's pretty bad.)
Read on and a link to this website will be at the bottom for those who are interested:
Translation of an article published in the Chinese newspaper "Orient Express" on July 16, 1998:
Saint Bernards become food dogs – Mainland China promotes import
Despite the Chinese government’s constant declaration of its extraordinary achievements in environmental and wildlife protection, some government agencies recently are promoting the import of Saint Bernards for food. Chinese experts recently found that for massive captive breeding and killing for meat, the best kind of dogs is the Saint Bernards, which are imported from Switzerland, also called « Big Dumb Dog ».
According to the China Central Television in Beijing, the experts pointed out that Saint Bernards are fast growing and disease resistant. The advantages of using them for food dogs are that they eat less than other dogs but breed fast. Because they rest immediately after meals, they grow faster too, on average gaining over one pound per day. Within a month, they could grow to be over 30 pounds. In three to four months, they will be ready for the market.
Beside the obvious advantage of fast growing , Saint Bernard also breed fast. On Average a female gives birth once a year. Litter size usually is around nine to twelve, nearly double that of other breeds. The CCTV reports also stressed that Saint Bernards are kind and friendly in nature. They don not bite people, so the breeders need not worry. "Big Dumb Dogs" are usually trained for rescue purposes in winter.
Translation of an article in the Chinese newspaper "Beijing Youth Daily" of September 16, 99:
Good news, new food for the dinner table before National Day
With the improvement of living standards, people’s diet is changing. Dog meat is becoming a favourite. Due to the increasing market demand, the dog breeding industry is expanding in Beijing. Male Great Dane, St. Bernard, Tibetan Mastiff are chosen to be imported by Beijing HongDing Breeding & Development Co to hybridize with Mongolian dogs to create a new generation of meat dogs. The company set up a new breeding facility in KangXi grassland providing estimated 100'000 meat dogs per year.
Dog meat is fine, tasty and can warm the body. In order to guarantee the quality and hygiene of dog meat, the Beijing HongDing Breeding & Development Co. Takes the following measures: individual breeding, central slaughter and market. The slaughter facility is in the city of Chanping, killing 100'000 a year, Products include marinated dog meat and dog ribs. The company also provides stud dogs and offers job opportunities for laid off workers.
This is a copy of a website that was withdrawn at the end of 2000.
Introduction of breeding St. Bernard
Home Breeding Base of Breeding St. Bernard of the North China
The famous St. Bernard dogs whose native haunt are originally in Switzerland. Because of its rescuing in the snowy mountains, the dogs are world-renowned. In China, the dogs are suitable to growing on both sides of the Changjiang River. The dogs to be evolved as the paternal of meat-producing dogs have the following good points:
1. Strong and big bodily form: an adult male dog weights over 75-100kg and an adult female weights more than 60-85 kg.
2. Fast growth: a male dog weights about 60 kg for 6 months and a female dog weights about 50 kg for 6 months.
3. High breeding rate: a female dog for 8 months reaches the age of puberty, each average 2 litters a year and 8-12 young at a birth.
4. Long whelp-bearing age: the common life of the dog is about 20 years and the normal whelp-bearing time reaches above 10 years.
5. Obvious heterosis: St. Bernard dog as the male parent crosses with a local dog to evolve a cross fattening dog, the mature dog weighs 40-50 kg, and its meat is fresh, tender, tasty and delicious.
For those who wish to view the website cut and past the following - (my hyperlink skills are zip - apologies)
No wars about this, just observed opinions thanks.
Mx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1167 times:
Exactly. Even though to most of us in the west the idea of dog meat is disgusting, you are correct there is not much different so long as they are treated humanely.
Unfortunately, many of these food dogs are not being treated humanely, many are terrorised and beaten before slaughter to enhance the meat with adrenaline.
Which some say tenderises the meat or adds sexual potency to it. The whole problem here is that the Chinese Government must intervene and set up strict guidlines and regulations on the ethical treatment of ALL animals for human consuption.
SEVEN_FIFTY7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 957 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1169 times:
I watched a documentary once about this...
Trust me. They are not slaughtered "humanely." Each individual dog seems to know exactly what's going to happen to him/her. When it's their "time", they squeal, scream, pull away, gnash their teeth, yelp and do everything they can to get away. Other dogs, while caged for the time being, hear and witness this commotion and tremble, urinate, and defecate violently for they know they are about to experience the same cruel fate. It's appears to be a very terrifying experience for them--It's not the same behavior exhibited by cows or goats who appear to have no clue as to what's going on. Dogs (and pigs for that matter) are more intelligent.
In that same documentary they showed live cats being tossed casually in cauldrons of boiling, super hot water. They then take the drowned, dazed (or dead) cat out of the water, skin them immediately, and use the fur for stuffed animals, of which is currently being sold in most of the Chinatown tourist districts in the U.S. (eg., New York's Chinatown, San Francisco's, Chicago's). The meat is sold to restaurants for a variety of dishes in most Chinese cities.
It's been said that the Chinese will eat ANYTHING with four legs. I'm not entirely un-skeptical about this. IIRC, there's even certain tribes of in Southwest China that routinely practiced cannabalism as recently as the 1970s.
Bear in mind that the Chinese aren't the only ones with restaurants that routinely serve dog or cat. Korea, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam all supposedly eat dog and cat meat as well.
I hate to offend out Asian users. But this really sickens me to pieces. Sorry folks.
Lewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3678 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1160 times:
On my short trip to china I happened to see dog slaughter in a local bazaar. They were killing these small dogs behind the bentch and then gut them and cut them to pieces in front of you. For me it was a shock but for them it is like killing a sheep. Nothing strange.
Ikarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1157 times:
Who cares about the dogs? To me, there is no difference between dog, pig, sheep and cow or chicken as a source of meat. If someone decides to eat any animal, why care which animal it is? Personally, I'd pay a lot of money for a decently prepared dog meat, just out of curiosity to know what it tastes like.
And don't tell me animals are treated fairly. Anyone ever seen what conditions chickens and turkeys are bred in here in Europe? Or how the cows and horses feel when they are transported in a lorry? Ever chosen a lobster in a seafood restaurant, which is then thrown in boiling water alive? Ever seen how crabs are prepared in some of the Southern states of the USA (the legs are ripped out while the crabs are still alive, then the living torso is thrown in boiling water)? Ever heard of the fox-hunts here in Britain? Ever heard of hunting as a past-time in America with beer-drinking untrained and skill-less hunters shoot animals, missing all important bits and then following the prey for hours before they find the carcass? What about those kangaroo-hunters in Australia? Do you know what the fish feels when the hook catches and rips open its mouth or throat? Ever slurped living oysters? Ever heard what KLM does to squirrels, and Qantas to deer? Let's face it: Humans don't give a sh*t about animals, not only in Asia, but anywhere. Except for those referred to as "greeny wackos" by some members in these forums....
Avion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1151 times:
Well to me it doesnt matter if they eat their own dogs. But please no Saint Bernards. Its our countries national dog and nobody wants to see it eaten. Plus they are not slaughtered humanly. They are beaten to make the meat tender.
Do it with chinese dogs but no Saint Bernards.
LH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1139 times:
Ryanb741: What I interpret Avion to be saying is that the St. Bernard is a dog of Swiss origin, like a Shih Tzu is from China (sp? Also, they may be Japanese, I'm not sure). There is no relation to cows and the Hindu belief, because, as far as I know, cows did not originate in India. If they did, my apologies.
I would never eat a dog, especially one like the St. Bernard. Does anyone remember the Looney Toons cartoon where the St. Bernard rescue dog is high up in the mountains going to rescue someone? He sits down next to the person, takes out a canteen, pours a drink (assumed to be brandy, or some other tradition pain numbing drink), proceeds to drink it himself, and then walks away.
I mean, that is classic stuff.
I know we would all like to say that it's okay for this as long as it is humane, but on the risk of a generalization, this is China, and if we've seen what China will do to it's own citizens, what's the likely hood that they are going to take a precious amount of time to carefully, and humanely slaughter a dog? My money says that those dogs experience a terrifying last few minutes. And, let's face it, as much as we think dogs are man's dumb, loyal, lovable best friend, dogs are more cognizant that we give them credit for, and to treat a dog like that is not only inhumane, but extremely cruel.
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Ryanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1129 times:
It's no different from the way we treat livestock. Man, I got all this sh*t for daring to taste dolphin in Vietnam, even though it was from a common species which had been humanely killed. Please open your minds guys.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
Mx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1117 times:
The open mind is there. I cannot tolerate the inhumane treatment of any animals, whether they be for food or something else.
I have no problem with the Chinese eating dog meat or any other type of meat for that matter. The problem lies in the way the animals are treated.
What is needed is a complete change of attitude from the government and people of China. If they wish to be recognised as a foward thinking country then they have to educate their citizens that certain types of behaviour is unacceptable.
I personally am not a vegetarian, but will not eat certain products because of the way food animals are treated. No feed lot meat for me (most of our meat is grazed), no battery chicken products (being phased out here anyway) and no pork products (as pigs are kept in the most attrocious of conditions).
Is it really that difficult to change peoples attitudes in how they treat animals? We have been slowly changing attitudes in the west for some time. We now know how to better look after many animals in zoological gardens accross the world, with creating natural habitats and the like.
We in Australia have been progressively phasing out battery chicken production and changing to free range / barn hens. We've also been forced to change animal cruelty penalties to be much tougher to include stiff prison sentences.
Hopefully we won't see Saint Bernard as the official snack food of the 2008 Olympics but maybe, just maybe the Chinese authorities will realise such barbarous behaviour is not a good look.
N949WP From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2000, 1437 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1104 times:
Dogs have never been considered "pets" throughout the thousands of years of Chinese culture. They were treated just like any other domesticated animal - either for use at work out in the fields or at the dinner table.
While some Westerners called this practice "barbarous" (or whatever derogatory term they can think of), there are no shortage of equally barbarous treatment of other species of animals in Western societies. Those folks should take a good look at their own society before practicing their brand of cultural imperialism.
CYKA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1099 times:
I dont think the issue here is people eating dog meat but rather how the animals are treated/slaughterd. Although the human body requires meat to remain healthy I dont think humans should be slaughtering animals in cruel and slow way. I have also seen a part of the documentry on the dog killings and it wasent pretty. I turned the channel only after watching the first few minutes. Cattle/Pork shoots are designed to kill the animal quickly and painlessly and because of their design animals have no idea whats going to happen to them until its their turn. Animals arent as stupid as we make them out to be and they know very well whats will/is happening to them. Dolphins being the next smartest animal after man Im sure know that they are about to be killed. It's almost like rounding up a group of people and executing each one.
Inhumaine acts arent only restricted to mammals. Sharks, whose fins are used for soup, are also killed slowly. They are fished out of the water, their fins are cut off and the shark is thrown back to the ocean to bleed to death. Now since there arent any major arteries in their fins they no doubt experiece a slow, agonising death.
All this crap about meat from tortured animals having sexual properties is a load of bullshit. Near extinction of certain tiger species can also be attributed to this myth as ground up pieces of their bodies are used as afordiziacs(spelling?)
Bottom line is, kill something if you need it to survive and dont kill needlessly if it serves no purpose.
I laugh when someone gets killed by an animal since we are doing it to them on a massive scale. What the hell makes us any better or give us a right to treat other animals as we please?
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1098 times:
Cows and especially pigs do seem to know what is going to happen to them.
Cattle sometimes panic when led into the slaughterhouse from the trucks, and a lot of pigs have heartattacks and die on the way despite measures to increase the comfort in the trucks (less crowded conditions, regular stops for feeding, etc).
There is indeed no difference between dogs and sheep (or whatever animal) except in the eye of the beholder.
To people in the West, dogs are pets that are part of the family. In Asia, dogs are not seen that way (and neither are cats).
Avion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1090 times:
Ryanb741: LH423 said exactly what i meant. The Chinese can eat millions of SHi Tzu and it wouldnt bother me but please no Saint Bernards.
Also yesterday i saw a film on how they are slaughtered. First they are hung on a hook and then beaten to death. Because the dogs get scared the adrenalin is released and that makes the meat tender. Another one is to burn of the fur.
This really makes me sad. I can't believe that you can eat a Saint.
Mx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1068 times:
I have probably seen the same program as you. It's absolutely sickening. I had just had dinner (it was taped for me) and decided to watch it, I never realised it was going to be so graphic. It was the worst of the worst of animal cruelty I had ever seen, even worse than the pig farm expose which was truly shocking.
It was so bad I tossed my dinner and couldn't stand to watch it anymore. I have to say I have seen some pretty awful things in my time, but to see these animals so brutally treated and to see the animals in the background absolutely terrified, watching, probably knowing that it's going to happen to them is positively heartbreaking.
I will find out the name of the documentary and urge everyone to watch it. See for yourselves, and if one person goes "so what" then that person has no humanity whatsoever.
Jessman From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1506 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1065 times:
I don't know what goes through any animal's mind before it is slaughtered, so saying one animal is intellegent and another is not is a moot point, just because one creature acts more like a human is no indication of it's intelligence. That being said I would like to try dog meat. I wonder what it tastes like.