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The US Should Ban Handguns  
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

There seems to be a debate on airlines with regard to gun controls in the USA.

Some people have compared the us to britain and made suggestions that because we have banned hand guns some how our rape statistics have dramatically increased.

this is fundementaley floored, rape is different from shootings, different motives and besides our crime figures are better then they were before banning handguns.

If we transalted population sizes then the usa figures stand at lesser amount and its ture to say that the reason why they have loads more is because of their natural larger population size, yet ten is still ten too many.

How many deaths did the usa have last year caused by handguns?

how many school killings have the usa had that could have been prevented?
how many presidents have been shot?

In britain after the dreadful dunblane shootings of 16 infant schoolchildren and their teacher, we reacted, we banned hand guns.

we now live in a safer society.

a lot of people in the us mention civil liberities and hide behind the constitution.

do you really think your founding fathers want schoolchildren to be mowed down or to have a high murder rate?

no they didnt.they wanted freedom but let me ask you whats more important?

the freedom to kill and main or the freedom to live?

surely the admendment should occur so that the number of murders and deaths are decreased?

if you believe that americans should have handguns then you have blood on your hands at every shooting.

for the sake of humanity and the love of god, ban handguns.


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
245 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

With all due respect, your argument is the very crystallization of narrow minded and short sighted thinking. But you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

Most people that stand on your platform IMO are not looking at the whole picture, and argue from an emotional, rather than a logical perspective. They argue that homicides and robberies and so on will go up.

Now granted, I will concede that if we are allowed to carry concealed weapons, there will be some shootings that would otherwise not have taken place, but in the long run, shooting deaths and crimes will plummet. It's kind of like the Cold War Arms Race: The whole purpose of having weapons was to be a deterrent, so we wouldn't HAVE to. But that option was still open if push came to shove. How inclined do you think that thug is going to be to take grannys purse if there's a chance that granny might whip out her Derringer and send some high velocity lead into the thugs skull?


User currently offlineHole_courtney From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 569 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

You present points that do, indeed make sense. However, there are a few fundamental elements that make hand-guns a nesessity in the U.S.

1. Our own personal protection. The United States was guaranteed personal protection in the Constitution. We have a right to protect ourselves. And, since most criminals have guns, civilians have guns as well. What are you going to do when an armed criminal walks into your house at 2 in the morning? In your gunless country are you going to try to hit him with a golf club? It's a horrible feeling to realise that someone has broken into your home (it's happened to me before.) Do you not want to be protected in the best way that you can? If someone steps into my house uninvited, he is surely going to get a nasty surprise. I want my protection. If criminals are going to have guns, than I want to make sure that I can match his fire power.

2. Believe it or not, there are still some people in america who hunt for their food. These may be back woods people that don't get out much, but they do exist. the United States is a large country, with lots of open space. Some of it is inhabited by Joe Redneck who needs to hunt to feed his family. If you ban handguns, what's next? Of course, shot guns and rifles. You gun-banning people would expect nothing less.

3. The pure principal that people can be allowed to take their government back from the people that run it. Interesting, yousay? The United States looks like a pretty stable country. It's citizens live in freedom, they live well. But, It only takes one person to create mayhem in this country, only one person or body of persons to take away our rights. We have to have a way to rise up against that type of government. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. But in years to come it might. What are you going to do when government soliders start taking your families across the country to prisons in such? Are you going to throw rocks at them? Keeping the populous armed curbs any politician or maniacal person from trying to even think about plunging a country into dictatorship. It's not crazy. People think it can't happen, but that's what people thought about Hitler too. Again, we now live, at this moment in time, a very stable country that's not about to start arresting citizens. but the option for people in power is always there. Citizens must have a way to protect themselves from an overbearing government, and having fire arms is the only way to do it.

You may wonder why I havne't said anything about school shootings and the like. Well, school shootings aren't the cause of guns. Parents and the kids(kids who perpetrated the incident) are the cause of school shootings. Did we ever stop to think that if the parent had maybe been half involved in the child's life? or if the kid was just a ticking time bomb waiting to happen and no one ever did anything about it? Could it just be that this kid was insane in the first place? Not too many people wake up one morning and go "Oh look, it's a gun, i think i'll kill 19 of my classmates."

With all this said there is a huge responsibility to gun ownership. People who own guns and have small or even older children should be care where they put them. I think trigger locks are a good idea. If you're woken up in the middle of the night, a few clicks and the thing is off. If you're a kid, you have no idea how to get it open, and give up. The responsibilty should always be the number one priority so that the gun in your possession is not used in the wrong way.

So, in conclusion, guns are just a part of life in the United States. We should take more responsibility with our gun ownership, and things like Columbine won't happen again. The key is responsibilty, and not laws banning fire arms.

"If guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns."

live forever and stay beautiful,
hole_courtney



"[He] knew everything about literature, except how to enjoy it." - Yossarian, Catch 22
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

True if all grannies wanted to do that but killing a person for snatching a pursue is still wrong.

Thats an over reaction.what i am saying is that the fundemental civil freedom of them all is the right to life and that lives are saved if handguns are banned.

i respect your comments, far better to have a civil discussion than the god bless america line.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1774 times:

In Britain that argument was used yet our country is now safer because gun onwership is outlawed.
if the usa cant ban guns then the least they can do is toughern gun restrictions.

a scholl kid may shoot because of being bullied but it still wouldnt kill as many people if he didnt have access to the gun in the first place.

our school massacre wasnt done by a schoolchild, it was done by a middle aged man.if he didnt have that gun it wouldnt have happened.

other countries banned handguns let you dont see europe collasping into a army state.
besides if a military force wanted to take over they would do because they would have stronger weapons.

having a hand gun wont save you if that happened.

banning handguns would save you lives.

ps thanks for the comments.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1764 times:

Go Canada!

When you think that legal firearms can't be used against a military force, take a look at how the Afghans expelled the Soviets.

Did you know that in the US, homeowners shoot more criminals than police do?

and that aside from killing intruders and justifiable homicide, 6.5 million crimes were prevented through use of a handgun in 1999?

Concealed handguns have never been LEGALLY issued to a criminal, so making handguns illegal would make it difficult for crimes to be prevented.

Why should we prevent good citizens from carrying legal weapons around with them? We should make it nasty for them if they do bad things with their guns and we should make it difficult for the wrong people to have guns.


User currently offlineHole_courtney From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 569 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1763 times:

I see your points. And i think they are valid in a sense.

However,
Banning toothpicks will also save our lives. Do you know how many people are killed each year by toothpicks? Hundreds.

Since we're talking about saving lives, why don't we ban the automobile. I read somewhere that thousands of people die in auto accidents every year.

Here's a list of other things that could be banned because they kill people : Airplanes, Trains, Waterbeds, Knives, Forks, Cell Phones (they cause brain cancer, you know), straws. The list can go on and on.

the argument that banning handguns will save your life is very weak. It can be worked into a very valid arguement, but it by itself is weak.

I'm not trying to make this topic silly, but I think that there are a lot more ways to convince people that we should ban handguns. There are a lot more fundamental things than a battle cry of saving lives. Imean, if we let people grow genetically engineered food, we could feed starving people in Africa, but yet we don't allow it. Think of how many lives we could save........


live forever and stay beautiful,
hole_courtney



"[He] knew everything about literature, except how to enjoy it." - Yossarian, Catch 22
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39857 posts, RR: 74
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

FlyBoeing:
>Concealed handguns have never been LEGALLY issued to a criminal, so making handguns illegal would make it difficult for crimes to be prevented.

There was this big a$$hole who used to be the governor of Texas named G.W. Bush who now occupies our White House made it possible for concealed handguns to be LEGALLY issued.

I think handguns should be outlawed and melted down for other uses. There is nothing wrong with hunting rifles and a bow & arrow.
Gun advocates love to hide behind the 2nd. Amendment to justify concealed handguns. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say anything about handguns. If it does, I will pay for all of you guys to go to flight school. Big grin
Using that logic, anybody can own a nuclear bomb and hide behind the 2nd. Amendment.




Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN400QX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1744 times:

I think Matt and hole_courtney have presented a very good and valid argument that guns or handguns should NOT be banned.

>Nowhere in the Constitution does it say anything about handguns. If it does, I will pay for all of you guys to go to flight school.

Lets all recite the Constitution, "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." When they are referring to Arms they are obviously referring to weapons with which to fight an enemy force. The whole amendment is primarily about fighting a tyrannical government if that should happen. So, to make a long story short, handguns are arms (ever heard of small arms? the Constitution doesn't make an exception for small arms). To infringe is to transgress or violate the people's right to bear Arms.
I'd like to begin lessons next spring in a Cessna 172 at Crest Airpark (S36)... I'm sure you can work out the arrangements through them... LOL  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1743 times:

Not another gun debate...

User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1732 times:

People tend to look at one side of the equation. Matt is exactly right. While gun freedom may cause an otherwise prevented death, they also cause otherwise prevented murder-victims. The simple question is, which number is larger. I think a ban would create more crime and death. Why? Because the killers won't pay attention to mandates. They can get their pistols no matter what. Most of the criminals that carry guns now aren't allowed to have them. They are breaking current gun-laws and bans. A sweeping ban would change nothing for criminals except gaurantee that their victims are defenseless. Sounds more like an incentive than a deterrent, no?


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

N400, JetService:

Are you referring to me by my real name (check my profile) or are you referring to Matt D? Because some folks have actually clicked through to my profile and referred to me by my real name not my handle.

This gets complicated since Matt D and I are also on the same side of the guns issue.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1721 times:

We have a Constitutional right to bear arms in the US.

There can be controls as to what kind of guns and where we can carry them and how we can acquire them, but thats about it folks.

We cannot ban a baic right inherent in the Constitution. Hopefully that puts an end to that discussion.


User currently offlineWatewate From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 2284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

I don't live in US, so I couldn't care less whether Americans shoot each other til the whole population is wiped out. But has anyone checked watched the news in Canada? Even in a big city like Toronto, a shooting incident involving a cap-gun (yes, CAP-GUN) will grace the lead-in segment of your prime time news. Quite the departure from LA or NY news where the streets look like target ranges.  Smile

User currently offlineEnthusiast From France, joined Jun 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1707 times:

These pro-gun posters seem to me just a little bit...PARANOID!!! Yes, those nasty robbers are just hiding in wait in the bushes right outside your home...waiting for the perfect time to pounce on your unsuspecting family and steal your babies and sell them on the black market to environmentalists...and, of course, they only break in when you're home...but...your trusty magnum to the rescue! Ending a life...think nothing of it! It's the American Way! After all, on the mean streets of suburbia, one can't be too careful.

I already ranted on this under the "more UN anti-freedom crap...unacceptable" forum. Check my posts there...they say it all...but it may be locked, I'm not sure; if it is, I guess I'll have to repeat the whole goddamned thing.


User currently offlineCorey777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

We cannot ban a ba(s)ic right inherent in the Constitution.

Yes, we can. Ever hear of Prohibition? The 18th amendment made it illegal to sell alcohol. Then the 21st overturned it, therefore banning "a right inherent in the Constitution"

Corey777


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39857 posts, RR: 74
Reply 16, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

The only gun I need is the one I was born with . Big grin



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

There is nothing in the Constitution about the right to drink alcohol. For better or for worse, there is a right to bear arms. Thus, what the 18th amendment did viz a viz alcohol could not be done against guns.

User currently offlineEnthusiast From France, joined Jun 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1696 times:

OK, I checked...you can see the messages on locked forums; you just can't reply. Well, that "more UN anti-freedom crap...unacceptable" forum has it all; but just to sum up, I'll review some points some posters keep ignoring.

1st, nowhere in the constitution or bill of rights does it say everyone has the right to bear arms...it says TRAINED MILITIA do. Period.

2nd, it's really retarted to point to what our founders said over 200 years ago and try to make it apply today. The U.S.A. was a different country then...people needed guns. Not Anymore! We live in an industrialized society...not Valley Forge. Need food? Go to the market (yes, they exist where Joe Redneck lives). Need target practice? Throw darts.

3rd, saying we need guns to protect ourselves from...guess what?...other guns...is ridiculous. Talk about fighting fire with fire; it'll just make it worse...two guns pointed at each other...I'm sure nobody will get hurt. It's like saying, with all these knives around, I keep getting cut...what's the solution?...add more knives! Please.

4th, look at the stats.- 70% of all guns bought for private use in the U.S.A. each year wind up either used against a loved one, or stolen. That's right; thieves tend to break in when you're NOT there, and then, guess whose hands your gun falls into...so it can be used against somebody! After all, how's one way outlaws get guns? Simply put, whatever the intention of gun ownership (ie.- protection), that's not what they get used for. So, if they cause more harm than good, then they don't fill their purpose anyway. Therefore, instead of protecting you, the guns are hurting you.

5th, look at the basic function of a gun; its purpose is to injure or kill something, whether it be human or any other animal. NOT GOOD.

6th, even WITH guns, there's no way citizens could overthrow the government if they wanted to. Mr. and Mrs. Whitetrash aren't going to stop the tanks and 'planes with their shotgun.

7th, in the school shootings, the kids may have been the ones who killed, but if they couldn't have had access to guns to do the killings, they wouldn't have been so successful. Or is one kid going to kill 30 kids with a lead pipe? Trust me, it's a little easier with an Uzi.

8th, here are two true stories of mine:
My uncle bought a handgun; after his Mercedes got stolen, the criminals found it locked in the glove compartment; when my uncle reported the incident and his gun was eventually tracked down, he found out it had been used in two Texas bank robberies. That was the last time he owned a gun.
Last Friday, my sister was driving home and beeped at a guy (in an SUV, no less) for almost causing a three-car accident after failing to use his blinker; he followed her home into her driveway and said, "I'll get you...you're lucky I didn't bring my gun or you'd pay," and this is in a neighborhood of $500,000 houses. I swear, you can't escape these people. And if he had had a gun? My sister could be dead for beeping a horn all because some punk thinks he has the right to carry a deadly weapon. And if she had had a gun, there could possibly be two people dead; more violence; more bloodshed.

9th, what about my rights? How about my right to life? If I get killed because of somebody else's weapon, I had to pay for their responsibility. Why should they get their supposed right to bear arms if my rights are trampled in the process? I have the right to walk down the street and not get threatened by a potentially deadly weapon. Guns have no place in a civilized society. Period.

And for those that are paranoid: yes, the aliens are coming to probe Billy Bob and steal your tobaccy.





User currently offlineEnthusiast From France, joined Jun 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

I was thinking about the whole constitutional right argument...and even though we don't technically have the right to bear arms, let's just assume we do for a moment. With the logic of these posters, as long as something written over 200 years ago was a right, whether it applies today or not, it should never be changed. OK, so if you're using that logic, then if the constitution originally had said men have the right to keep women as, let's say, slaves, then even if we don't believe that today, women should still have to be slaves because we can't change a "right" stated in the constitution? Point is, even if gun ownership was a right 200 years ago, who says that should apply today, especially if society has changed beyond what the founding fathers anticipated?

User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

Anti-gun Watewate says:
Quite the departure from LA or NY news where the streets look like target ranges

Anti-gun Enthusiast says:
These pro-gun posters seem to me just a little bit...PARANOID!!!

Well, make up your mind, boys. LMAO!!!!



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineN400QX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

>nowhere in the constitution or bill of rights does it say everyone has the right to bear arms...it says TRAINED MILITIA do. Period

Wrong. "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." The people is exactly that-- all citizens. "The people" is found in quite a few places in the Constitution. Using your theory, the people don't have the right to peaceably assemle or petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Nor do we have the right to be secure in our persons, houses, papers and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures. Nor do we reserve the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution. Nor do we have the right to vote.

Or does that phrase only apply in the other rights and not for Arms?

>it's really retarted to point to what our founders said over 200 years ago and try to make it apply today. The U.S.A. was a different country then...people needed guns. Not Anymore!

Our Founders were incredibly intelligent and foresaw many of the events up to now. We need civilian weapons now just as much as we did before the revolution. Don't give us this "we're a different country" crap. You're the same people who say the Constitution is a living document, just like China's is. Well heres some news to you-- the Chinese Constitution includes the right of free speech. But since its living, it means whatever the government wants it to mean.

>look at the stats.- 70% of all guns bought for private use in the U.S.A. each year wind up either used against a loved one, or stolen

Not true. Bring me stats and they better not come from HCI.

>even WITH guns, there's no way citizens could overthrow the government if they wanted to

That is what they said in the late 18th century when we were thinking of fighting Britain. Guess who won.

You bring up innocent people shot by guns. They are unfortunate victims, but they are wounded for our liberty. Just as my brother-in-law who was wounded in action, he was fighting to preserve our Great Nation.

"They that would give up essential liberty for some temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."


User currently offlineEnthusiast From France, joined Jun 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1696 times:

Oh, and just so FlyBoeing knows, many more guns were used last year to COMMIT crimes than were used to Prevent them. So the positive is more than cancelled out.

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

Flyboeing says:
"""Did you know that in the US, homeowners shoot more criminals than police do?"""

Does anyone else who is not from the US find this statement utterly disturbing and quite scary?

Does this not question the type of society where ordinary home owners feel the need to protect themselves with handguns and constantly be on the lookout for criminals?

Why are there so many criminals? Are there not enough police?

Why do people like me from other western nations consider a statement like that bizarre? No one in my country or most other western nations would tolerate living in such a "violent / scared" society.

It's a unique American thing that seems to be obscured by red necks, constituional pro's and the gun lobby.

mb


User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1682 times:

I doubt a hand gun, rifle, or shotgun has ever killed anyone. The cause of death was the PERSON who pulled trigger. No difference if they knifed them to death or beat them with a baseball bat. Just remember in Japan they have had two mass killings and both were with KNIVES, not hand guns.

Anyone want to see a picture of my newest gun I just ordered?



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
25 Mx5_boy : Before I get trampled by my US friends, I am well aware that not all people in the USA feel like they live in violent society nor is most of the USA a
26 JetService : Oh, and just so FlyBoeing knows, many more guns were used last year to COMMIT crimes than were used to Prevent them. So the positive is more than canc
27 Twotterwrench : "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. From the
28 N400QX : >Anyone want to see a picture of my newest gun I just ordered? Haha, sure! And I'll post the pic of the handgun I want to buy as well...
29 Post contains images B757300 : Heckler & Kock USC .45 Caliber Carbine.
30 N400QX : That is one nice firearm. Looks like its got the single round/three shot burst/fully auto switch on it. I'll try to get the photo of the one I want...
31 Alpha 1 : With all due respect, Twotterwrench, those quotes, with the exception of Hitler's, were from at least 200 years ago: this nation isn't the nation it w
32 Twotterwrench : You don't have to be so humble... but it made me grin. I know you and I aren't going to agree on this, but we shook hands so to speak and can talk abo
33 Post contains images Aloha 737-200 : I am for a ban of handguns. While it may cause trouble at first, in the long run I think it would be beneficial, although it IS unconstitutional. Just
34 B757300 : The USC only fires semi-auto. Now its military cousin, the UMP, fires on full automatic, three shot burst, or semi auto. The two fully automatic guns
35 IMissPiedmont : A couple quick words on guns and crime. Kennesaw, GA, USA. If you don't know what I mean, do some research. I don't like guns at all. They are misunde
36 Enthusiast : JetService, who says I agree with what watewate said? I was born in New York City; I love it and wouldn't hesitate for a moment to live there without
37 Go Canada! : Whats more improtant the right of freedom and liberity or the right to have a opportunity to murder? Freedom and liberity means the freedom to love. T
38 Post contains images N400QX : >I have a lot of experience in gov. related research and schooling and I've confirmed this with many professors. I've read the constitution and bill o
39 L-188 : Hey N400QX did you make any decisions on that SKS?
40 Go Canada! : Lessons should be learned from history, next time you have a school massacre prehaps you could learn from it. you are threaterning human life if you o
41 L-188 : Go Canada....Seek Help..... You have a lot of misdirected anger. Please don't waste your life.
42 Go Canada! : im not going to waste my life nor others because im not going to go around and be killing others. however, america is wasting life every time it doesn
43 L-188 : No, I realize that a weapon is just an object. It isn't what causes violence.....Human behavior causes these problems You don't seem to be aware of th
44 L-188 : You also don't seem to be aware of the fact that a weapon is only a tool. It is ment to be used as that. BTW. A California lawsuit against gun manufac
45 Eg777er : Aaaaaaaaaaarggggghhhhhhh. I can't believe that civilised people are comparing the benefits of devices whose sole purpose is to kill people.
46 L-188 : Eg777er That is not their sole purpose.
47 Twotterwrench : About time you jumped into this one Shawn. Where the hell have you been?
48 Post contains images L-188 : Sorry....I was in the phone booth changing cloths..... Besides this actually started on the 8th....I think I was still on vacation then....didn't visi
49 Go Canada! : "Look at Britain. Is it safer now that guns have been banned over there? Based on the news stories that have made it over here about the crime rate in
50 An-225 : On this issue I have to stick to the conservative side. While I won't exercise my right to own a gun, I still think that some people need them.
51 N400QX : >you saying im bitter, isnt being objective It was an attempt on humor. >taking a life is playing God and throwning his work out of the window Not in
52 Enthusiast : L-188, you say the cause of violence is people's actions, not their tools. But what allows them to carry out their actions of violence? Guns do; they
53 N400QX : I was going to reply to this in the morning, but then I saw some things that I just couldn't leave unprotested overnight. >Right-wingers automatically
54 Rodney King : Can't we all just get along?
55 Twotterwrench : Ummmmmmmm....... "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age" -Title 10, Section 311 of the U.S. Code
56 L-188 : Enthusiast.....Guns provide life. There are still people that use them to feed their families, by hunting, farming ect. There was a reason that they w
57 Metroman : I, like many of our forefathers came to this country after birth. Personally, I think that gives me the right to speak my mind! I made a choice to liv
58 Go Canada! : Twotter wench if your trying to tell me that the Lord doesnt think handguns should banned then i think you have a different interpretation from the ar
59 Post contains links and images Klaus : N400QX: You bring up innocent people shot by guns. They are unfortunate victims, but they are wounded for our liberty. (throwing up) ...And once someo
60 Post contains links and images Klaus : Didn´t work before, somehow... Enthusiast: As for the stats., believe me, I do my research. I never could figure out how to add a direct link from a
61 Enthusiast : N400QX, remember, "the people" was written at a time when that definition didn't include women, blacks, Native Americans, and white men who didn't own
62 Enthusiast : Um, Twotterwrench, you have to REGISTER with the army as a soldier first. "Consists" just means you qualify; you still have to join up. By today's def
63 Enthusiast : L-188, if people in the U.S. still provide food to themselves by hunting, they're just fooling themselves. They're needlessly killing more animals tha
64 Mx5_boy : Enthusiast, well said. I know when I run down to the supermarket I need to pull out my magnum and fire a few rounds into the meat coolers. Damn that p
65 Metroman : Klaus, that island you refered to exists! It's called the United States of America!!
66 Twotterwrench : Enthu.. you poor abused american... while you may think that my owning a gun is infringing upon your rights, fact is, it is still my inalienable right
67 N400QX : >N400QX, remember, "the people" was written at a time when that definition didn't include women, blacks, Native Americans, and white men who didn't ow
68 Rodney King : Can't we all just get along?
69 Enthusiast : MX_5boy, you're absolutely right. Thanks for the support; I feel like I'm surrounded by rednecks. Twotterwrench, you're "beating up my arguments" in y
70 Enthusiast : N400QX, "the people," as according to who made up the militia was, as I pointed out, only white landowning males. I never said people who didn't own l
71 N400QX : >your "inalienable right" is inalieble only in your own mind and in the minds of right wingers everywhere. Consider your "right" a gift, because techn
72 Twotterwrench : ent - ok little boy. I read your posts and one more time I will respond to your hateful moronic ramblings. 1st, your "inalienable right" is inalieble
73 Post contains images Klaus : Metroman: Klaus, that island you refered to exists! It's called the United States of America!! That´s what I meant...
74 Post contains images Klaus : Enthusiast: the animals you kill probably have more wisdom, caring, kindness, and "humanity" than you'll ever have. Ahem. As much as I agree with you
75 Go Canada! : If you have a gun you are threaterning others,therefore impinging on their rights. NOW I notice that neither twotter wench (who has shown himself up,
76 N400QX : >I´m sorry, but it appears that over the centuries, even the most evil distortions of the bible have not been punished at all (specifically no known
77 Post contains images Klaus : N400QX: What I meant was the original writers... God struck people down way back when and its kinda Hollywood-ish to think it was with a lightening st
78 N400QX : >Oops. I thought you were sure it wasn´t changed? It hasn't changed, but it has been distorted by people, ie abortion clinic bombers.
79 Mx5_boy : Twots says: ""Constitution. And furthermore, the Constitution does not specify which types or how many I may own. No preteen has ever touched or will
80 Enthusiast : N400QX, I thought I already explained the whole "the people" thing; there are many different categories. You answered yourself: their rights end where
81 Enthusiast : Twotterwrench, OK "old man" I've read YOUR HATEFUL and moronic ramblings, and I will respond. But, wait, I thought you said you weren't coming back. O
82 Enthusiast : Klaus, you're right. I just got carried away because I'm being attacked on all sides with no one defending me. So I just didn't mince words. Also, I d
83 Enthusiast : Klaus and Go Canada, I agree. How could one ever put a child's life in danger in exchange for a supposed "right"? It reminds me of that story in the b
84 Twotterwrench : blah...blah...blah...same crap... nothing new...
85 Post contains images N400QX : Sorry L-188, I just saw your question.... >Hey N400QX did you make any decisions on that SKS? Nope, not yet... right now I'm in the market for a small
86 Enthusiast : N400QX, it DOESN'T mean the same thing throughout the constitution. You left out the vital part of my quote; I was saying that the ACTION is emotional
87 Twotterwrench : blah...blah...blah...
88 Twotterwrench : That's right.. you win.. You are so smart and your arguments are so logical that you finally won me over. I sold my guns and joined the Sierra Club. I
89 Post contains images Klaus : N400QX: It hasn't changed, but it has been distorted by people, ie abortion clinic bombers. Even if you just take the translations, several changes ha
90 Go Canada! : Twotterwrench I DONT SEE YOU ADD ANYTHING NEW SO ILL ASK YOU AGAIN If you have a gun you are threaterning others,therefore impinging on their rights.
91 Twotterwrench : Trying to goad me Canada? My point is that it has become silly to continue discussing this. I made my points. You don't like nor agree with them, but
92 Dg_pilot : (Just got back from vacation.....) Some relevent facts in response to recent observations here: It is absolutely my right to own a gun no matter how y
93 Enthusiast : Go Canada, I'm not attacking the lord but rather trying to point out the danger of taking things too literally. Dg_pilot, it's not absolutely your rig
94 Post contains links Klaus : Dg_pilot: Gun crimes are merely one of many indicators of the moral health and irresponsibility of a society. It is a tool and a recreation item that
95 Twotterwrench : Enthu - You are the absolute epitome of the blind idealist. I have read the constitution... in fact I studied it in high school and college. And guess
96 Twotterwrench : Excellent post, DG. Welcome to my respected users list.
97 Mx5_boy : Trotts: ""HA! By the way, they are ALL securely locked in 1500 lbs. gun safe that NO criminal is going to haul out of my house for the specific purpos
98 Jessman : I will start off by saying I do not own a gun. I do not feel I need one to protect myself because I feel comfortable in an understanding of finite lif
99 Twotterwrench : mxmoron - I already listed the reasons I own guns. Scroll up numbnuts. Anything new to add???
100 Post contains images Jessman : What is your major malfunction numbnuts Ahhh, I just can't hear the word numbnuts without seeing that scene in my mind
101 Mx5_boy : Trotts, It's my R I G H T to have numbnuts. mb
102 Jessman : LOL Mx5_boy
103 Mx5_boy : Thanks Trotts, I have done well in this life. I love compliments! Cheers!! mb
105 Dg_pilot : ""Dg_pilot, it's not absolutely your right...read the constitution."" The hell it isn't. You read it. Want proof? I own a gun don't I? ""And how abou
106 Dg_pilot : Thank you much! I always enjoy and look forward to reading your excellent posts.
107 Post contains images L-188 : Attention....Attention.... Apparently Enthusiast is about ready to participate in an experiement. He will be flow to a Bering sea village where he wil
108 Go Canada! : Hunting isnt the same as having the chance to gun down innocent children. I thikn handguns should be banned, i dont accept any of the wenchs arguement
109 L-188 : Go Canada....Neither one of those goals are in conflict with each other. In fact they compliment each other. Back when I lived out in the bush and did
110 Twotterwrench : whats more improtant owning handguns, or defending the right to life.It makes me laugh that anti abortions such as twottwer and zach can then say they
111 Go Canada! : "There is NO EVIDENCE anywhere to support that. If you really got rid of all the guns, people would still kill each other with knives and rocks and wh
112 Twotterwrench : Nope.. I don't agree and I am not going to. It is not because I have a closed mind. It is because my own research and experience have shown me that wh
113 Dg_pilot : Once again, I believe any decrease OR increase of the crime rate affected by owning or taking away guns is 'secondary' to the fact that public gun own
114 Post contains images Klaus : Jessman: On the other hand I would be suspicious of a government that does not trust its people enough to protect themselves, The point where we diffe
115 Twotterwrench : American brought you the 21st century Klaus...
116 Post contains images Klaus : Twotterwrench: Irregardless of that fact, you can't make a broad generalization like you do that banning guns would make everyone better behaved. Ther
117 Twotterwrench : You keep bringing up the rest of the world... news flash.. the rest of the world's laws don't apply in America. I couldn't care less how it is in the
118 Post contains images Klaus : Twotterwrench: You keep bringing up the rest of the world... news flash.. the rest of the world's laws don't apply in America. I couldn't care less ho
119 Twotterwrench : I understand full well your arguments, sir, I truly do. What you are over looking is that American in general doesn't care what the rest of the Wester
120 Enthusiast : Twotterwrench, I may be an idealist, but I'm no ignoramus. I study the constitution and, like I said, you get your right from twisting the constitutio
121 Enthusiast : Dg pilot, you own a gun because you and your right wing cronies have DISTORTED the constitution; nowhere is it your RIGHT. Unless you belong to the U.
122 Enthusiast : L-188, it's funny you should think that flying in food is stupid...seeing as though THAT'S WHAT'S DONE all over the world (even in the Australian outb
123 Enthusiast : And you know why hunting is just so sadistic?...because it's like kicking puppies...the human knows he will win because of his advantage (ie.- gun), s
124 Twotterwrench : Congratulations enthusiast - you have now COMPLETELY convinced me you are booger eating moron now. 70 % of all guns are used against families huh? You
125 Enthusiast : One post says owning a handgun and defending the right to life are the same thing. But what if owning a handgun DEFEATS defending the right to life. B
126 Twotterwrench : What stats numbnuts? the world according to raving lunatic connor??? WHAT STATS? You have no stats so you have no argument. Please be quiet now. You a
127 Enthusiast : Klaus is correct...the wider distribution of guns, the more CHANCE for more deaths. Think about it...if you handed a bunch of kids knives and said, "U
128 Twotterwrench : Prove it! You are making unfounded and emotional generalizations again. Now, before you spout anymore bull shit, prove what you have already said!
129 Enthusiast : Congratulations, Twotterwrench, you've just convinced me you don't know how to READ! Look up the stats. and read 'em and weep. "Accidental" only accou
130 Twotterwrench : I called you little boy because you are throwing a temper tantrum just like my litte 8 year old does when she disagrees with me. You say "they" have p
131 Enthusiast : I already LISTED ALL the websites where I got my facts from. If you can't READ or TYPE them in, that's not my problem. *I* had my stats. verified by a
132 Twotterwrench : As for the stats., believe me, I do my research. I never could figure out how to add a direct link from a post, but I'm happy to give webpages that I'
133 Post contains images Klaus : Twotterwrench: I understand full well your arguments, sir, I truly do. As you were, as you were. We´re not on formal terms, yet... Thanks for any int
134 Mx5_boy : Trotts, It sounds like you 'don't' want to look up the figures. Ruin your argument I bet. There have been many gun toting threads on this forum and th
135 Twotterwrench : Well, that's a lot better. When you leave emotion out and respond to the opposition with respect, a lot of mutual ground can be found. I agree that gu
136 Klaus : Enthusiast: And you know why hunting is just so sadistic?...because it's like kicking puppies...the human knows he will win because of his advantage (
137 Post contains images Klaus : Twotterwrench: I called you little boy because you are throwing a temper tantrum just like my litte 8 year old does when she disagrees with me. If you
138 Post contains images Klaus : Twotterwrench: When you leave emotion out and respond to the opposition with respect, a lot of mutual ground can be found. I´ve already been trying t
139 Enthusiast : Twotterwrench, maybe if you WENT to those sites, you wouldn't think they were so "laughable." I used numerous facts from them in my earlier posts, but
140 Enthusiast : Some posters think the "government" taking guns away from "normal, law abiding citizens" isn't the answer. But if the "government" doesn't, then crimi
141 Enthusiast : Klaus, you are right that there ARE circumstances in which hunting needs to be implemented to control a population because of human interference. But
142 Enthusiast : Klaus, I never made any personal insults; I basically re-posted what comments had been said to me (in opposite form). But after all, no one should ins
143 Post contains images Klaus : Enthusiast: If it weren't FOR that human mistake in the first place, population control hunting wouldn't be needed; so, it still winds up being our fa
144 Enthusiast : Thank you, Klaus. Exactly my point. Which leads me to believe that the "necessary" hunting is only (unfortunately) necessary because of past mistakes.
145 Jessman : In any given society there exists people who will actively seek to destroy said society. They will steal another's property of take another's life. Th
146 Twotterwrench : enthus - I said what I said not because your opinion was different than mine, but because your opinion was asinine and unsupported. You make up "facts
147 Go Canada! : Well its nice to see to see this still bubbling away though i notice Zach (N400QX)_ has topped posting, prehaps it because he knows the argument is on
148 Post contains images Klaus : Enthusiast: Which leads me to believe that the "necessary" hunting is only (unfortunately) necessary because of past mistakes. But please note that I
149 L-188 : Klaus and Enthusiast.....there are plenty of people in western society that hunt to survive.
150 Ryanb741 : As much as I don't like firearms being made widely available, what the US does internally is its own business, and nobody has the right to tell it wha
151 Post contains images Klaus : Jessman: but it shows that Guns still exist in a place where they are outlawed. Making a law does not remove the guns and it does not remove the peopl
152 Post contains images Klaus : Go Canada: But the rest of the world is sick of america moralising and preaching and bursting into tears when massacres occur when it could stop them
153 Klaus : L-188: If crime in London is slow low. Please explain to me why a couple of months ago there where discussions in parliment to absolve some of the pro
154 Post contains images Klaus : Ryanb741: As much as I don't like firearms being made widely available, what the US does internally is its own business, and nobody has the right to t
155 L-188 : Klaus.....If you don't belive me go spend a couple of months in one of the small villages where I am at.
156 Klaus : L-188: Klaus.....If you don't belive me go spend a couple of months in one of the small villages where I am at. As I said, I can´t know for sure abou
157 Peter. : Klaus, let them shoot each other as long as they want. Who cares ? That will die out anyway.
158 Kiss My L-1011 : If the U.S. banned hand guns, then any criminal could get them from the black market. If that happens, you're f-ed and defensless.
159 Post contains images Klaus : Kiss My L-1011: If the U.S. banned hand guns, then any criminal could get them from the black market. If that happens, you're f-ed and defensless. Ove
160 Enthusiast : Klaus, I don't mind getting involved in a little game of escalation because my point had already been made previously. Twotterwrench, the only reason
161 Go Canada! : Double jepodary is being debated in britain because the labour government thinks that people dont like the idea of people being found innocent such as
162 Twotterwrench : Funny you should mention press hysteria as that is the primary reason the ignorant masses in America think handguns are such a problem in America...if
163 Go Canada! : You trying to take a dig at me twotterwench, is this the best arguement you can come up with?
164 Twotterwrench : I made plenty of very good arguments, canada. I took a dig at media hype and the fact that the evening new is taken as the gospel truth in this countr
165 Klaus : Twotterwrench: Funny you should mention press hysteria as that is the primary reason the ignorant masses in America think handguns are such a problem
166 Enthusiast : Twotterwrench, I think you confused me with Go_Canada's post; I never said anything about the media.
167 Post contains images N400QX : Well, I'm not going to spend an hour catching up with the tons of posts during my absence as the first few seem to be running in circles. Its 4AM and
168 L-188 : Sounds like a fun trip N400QX BTW....I racked up a second deleted post on this topic.....Ya-Hooo.
169 Twotterwrench : According to the Journal of the American Medical Asosciation, "...the annual national number of dead to be 150,000, with 234,000 injuries - and this e
170 Post contains images Klaus : Twotterwrench: The pervasive argument you gun control folks try to make is that readily available handguns and negligence are the reason we must immed
171 Mx5_boy : Klaus, Touche' matey! Cheers, mb
172 Twotterwrench : I'm not sure you can back that one up statistically, klaus. Depending on who's statistics you read, guns save alot more lives than they take. Of cours
173 Metwrench : We don't need to ban hand guns. We need to ban ambulance chasing lawyers and liberal judges that continually set criminals free!!!!
174 Metwrench : This site is getting way too long. Let's start over!!!
175 Twotterwrench : See, metwrench... Got them liberals on the run...reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw a couple of days ago... it said: "Annoy the liberals, believe th
176 Post contains images Klaus : Twotterwrench: I'm not sure you can back that one up statistically, klaus. Depending on who's statistics you read, guns save alot more lives than they
177 Twotterwrench : Klaus - read a little more carefully. I did very clearly address all of your points, as I had a pretty good idea what your arguments were going to be.
178 Metwrench : To All, I'm just curious, why are so many people out there that are citizens and residents of other countries so concerned about US gun laws? I'm not
179 L-188 : It must just eat up all of the gun grabbers out there that the current POS murderer on the run out there, Nikolay Soltys, killed 6 member of his famil
180 174thfwff : This topic shows you that AMERICA IS NUMBER 1!!!!!!! (i just posted that to get more people pissed off)
181 Post contains images Klaus : Twotterwrench: The first 2 statistics I took from the NRA as I knew that you wouldn't accept anything the NRA had to say just as I don't believe anyth
182 Post contains images Klaus : Metwrench: I'm just curious, why are so many people out there that are citizens and residents of other countries so concerned about US gun laws? We´r
183 EmiratesLover : Yes. I agree, the US should ban handguns and permit only the police and soldiers to use the.No more handguns for civilians.
184 L-188 : Klaus....eh? You are aware that OJ used a knife not a gun...... Are you suggesting that if he was limited to one knife purchase a month...Nicole and w
185 Klaus : L-188: It must just eat up all of the gun grabbers out there that the current POS murderer on the run out there, Nikolay Soltys, killed 6 member of hi
186 Post contains images Klaus : L-188: You are aware that OJ used a knife not a gun...... Yeah. Right. Although I was talking about guys getting off too easy. And isn´t O.J. still a
187 L-188 : No it does not reduce it Klaus....That is the point. All you do by restricting it is eliminate it from the people that obey the laws. It is kind of li
188 L-188 : Between OJ and this other guy, I propose the following restrictions.... Ban plastic knifes since they don't appear on metal detectors Restricting blad
189 Post contains images Klaus : L-188: No it does not reduce it Klaus....That is the point. All experience shows that it does. L-188: Pretty rediculous rules. These are all ones that
190 L-188 : You can't have a real rule when none is possible. But that b*&#$ Sarah Brady won't tell you that. Sorry that you have bought into the propaganda from
191 Twotterwrench : Actually, klaus, I quoted statistics from the US dept of justice that show that guns in the hands of citizens does in fact REDUCE violent crime. That
192 Klaus : L-188: You can't have a real rule when none is possible. But that b*&#$ Sarah Brady won't tell you that. Sorry that you have bought into the propagand
193 Klaus : Twotterwrench: Actually, klaus, I quoted statistics from the US dept of justice that show that guns in the hands of citizens does in fact REDUCE viole
194 John Edwards : Yes, they should.
195 Post contains links N400QX : Do y'all think we should start a new thread? The length and load time is a post deterrant. Anyway-- From Australia... "HIGH-POWERED guns are being rou
196 L-188 : Thank you N400 Theories about banning or controling that Klaus, John (the fraud) Edwards or Go Canada suggest just simply do not hold up against real
197 Klaus : N400QX: Who even needs statistics?! Its common sense and can be verified through news reports-- N400QX: There are hundreds more incidents like these t
198 Klaus : L-188: Theories about banning or controling that Klaus, John (the fraud) Edwards or Go Canada suggest just simply do not hold up against real world fa
199 L-188 : Scroll back up to those numbers trotterwrench gave. Oh that's right, you seem to have allready dissmissed them, desipite those numbers comming from le
200 Go Canada! : "According to the NRA: "Well i didnt know the NRA were such an independent and objective source! : L-188-If i had a disrespected list YOU would be top
201 L-188 : Go Canada.....at this moment I would say that the feeling is pretty mutual. I don't know how you can keep perpetrating that "safer society=gun ban" my
202 Klaus : L-188: Scroll back up to those numbers trotterwrench gave. Oh that's right, you seem to have allready dissmissed them, desipite those numbers comming
203 L-188 : You mean that you aren't willing to go back. And no we are not going to enact gun control rules to satisfy a erronous little sociology theory. BUt sin
204 Post contains images Klaus : L-188: You mean that you aren't willing to go back. No, I usually mean what I say. L-188: And no we are not going to enact gun control rules to satisf
205 Post contains links Klaus : Okay, here we go: This is finally my answer to your post here: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/95174/ Twotterwrench: I'm n
206 Metwrench : Here's some new statistics for those who are interested. Number of physicians in the U.S.: 700,000. Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 1
207 Enthusiast : Metwrench, doctors' patients are ALREADY sick (except for routine checkups). Why do you think people go to doctors? Because they're perfectly healthy?
208 Twotterwrench : South Central LA is a third world country, entusiast, not a city. You can't take into account what the animals in the inner city do. They are not and
209 L-188 : Not to change the subject but I just got a scope for my 1903 Springfield. It is an old Lyman Alaskan that was on my grandfathers remington (721?) rifl
210 Post contains images Lehpron : You know, ever since this post first came out I thought it was really interesting and yet avoided it completely simply because these days I prefer to
211 Post contains images Klaus : Metwrench: Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one doctor. Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before
212 Post contains images Klaus : L-188: Not to change the subject but I just got a scope for my 1903 Springfield. Oh come on, how cheap can you get?
213 L-188 : Klaus......You know it is an antique right? I am dating the scope about late 40's although the design dates back earlier. The Lyman Alaskan was adopte
214 Klaus : L-188: Klaus......You know it is an antique right? You know as well as everybody else that it might as well be a medieval sword for the intended purpo
215 L-188 : Maybe when we where talking about drive by bayonetings.....
216 N400QX : >But you said that guns can be used for defense, so if a youth attacks you and you respond with a gun, then thats a violent crime. Self-defense may be
217 N863DA : N400QX.. you'd be horrified to learn of one such case, in the UK, then. Two kids broke into a farmer's house in the middle of the night, about three y
218 Enthusiast : When we choose to ignore areas like south central L.A., we become blind to the consequences of our actions. SO MANY of the guns on the market bought i
219 Klaus : N863DA: Two kids broke into a farmer's house in the middle of the night, about three years ago, somewhere in England, and the guy (who was in legal po
220 L-188 : It is an autoatic death sentence if he was to break into mine. Keep in mind that that case happened in england, whos government has very little respec
221 Metwrench : Police responded to an Eagle River home at 18940 First Street around 4 a.m. and found a body inside. Hatchet-murder suspect arrested Anchorage, AK, A
222 L-188 : Following on with Metwrenches news. This last spring a nutcase broke onto a school here in town and stabbed four kids with a knife. Thankfully all fou
223 Klaus : L-188: It is an autoatic death sentence if he was to break into mine. I think I want to repeal my previous remark. If you´re planning to kill anyone
224 Post contains images Klaus : Metwrench: I'm not trying to be funny, it just goes to show that if some "sicko" is hell bent on brutal violence, they will find a way. Should we also
225 Metwrench : Klaus, What kind of education are you refering too? If it's the proper moral upbringing of youth's, then I'm with you. If it's letting the government
226 L-188 : No Klaus...it is the fact that the shot that is most likely to be effective from a defensive, as in stop a charging opponent", shot is a center of mas
227 Klaus : Metwrench: What kind of education are you refering too? If it's the proper moral upbringing of youth's, then I'm with you. If it's letting the governm
228 Klaus : L-188: No Klaus...it is the fact that the shot that is most likely to be effective from a defensive, as in stop a charging opponent", shot is a center
229 L-188 : Oh no no no no.....You have my statement 180 degrees out. Gun restrictions are not needed are are in fact counterproductive. And if you look up in the
230 L-188 : What I mean by that earlier statement is the shot that you want to take is the shot that is most likely to incapacitate your opponent. Rightly or wron
231 Go Canada! : so we have stats that counterdict themselves, well thats a surpirse. LA should be a special case? im sorry i though LA was part fo the good old us of
232 L-188 : Frankly, Go Canada there is a large body of Americans that are just waiting for the day the San Andreas fault lets go and California sinks into the se
233 Vincent32 : Why should we ban handguns? If we do that why don't we just forfeit the rest of our ammendments and our civil rights.
234 Klaus : L-188: Oh no no no no.....You have my statement 180 degrees out. How so? L-188: Gun restrictions are not needed are are in fact counterproductive. And
235 Klaus : Go Canada: money is the root of all evil and its the reason why america has handguns. Oh, please!! Would you please try a little harder to come up wit
236 Klaus : Vincent32: Why should we ban handguns? If we do that why don't we just forfeit the rest of our ammendments and our civil rights. Because that would be
237 L-188 : What you´re saying basically comes down to this: "If someone angers me in any way - and be it as slightly as it ever gets - this gives me the right t
238 Klaus : L-188 No Klaus......A response has to be appropriate. I will agree with you on that. To quote you, "Even self-defense must be proportional as far as p
239 Aussiemite : you yanks are so crazy... Guns are built to kill people period. In Australia we don't have guns so criminals use explosivs and blow our ex-police comm
240 WN700Driver : MattD, you bring up an interesting point about handguns & cold war weapons. But I think it is safe to say that no one has ever been deterred to death.
241 L-188 : Aussiemate: Interesting dilemma.
242 Aussiemite : yeh, WA ex chief of hardcore crime squad was murdered by bikies a few days ago.
243 Post contains images L-188 : See, that is what gun control does D Neccessity is the mother of invention. Lets face it. If a chinese monk could figure out how to make black powder
244 Rodney King : Guns should be banned. Only peace officers should be allowed carry firearms along with batons and tasers.
245 L-188 : Rodney? Didn't you just get arrested for beating up somebody last week? Again...Another example of violence in one of the most gun ownership-prohibiti
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