Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 639 times:
This morning, I was flicking through different news channels - BBC, CNN, and Swiss TV.
CNN talked about the bombing, interviewed a couple of Palestinian extremists who said they were happy about the bombing, and interviewed the family of the american woman who was killed. Barely a passing mention on Israeli reprisals or Arafat's denouciation of the bombing. Hamas and Islamic Jihad were presented as representing the true Palestinian position.
BBC and Swiss TV Reported all of what CNN did, but also interviewed more moderate palestinians who also denounced the bombing - framing Hamas and Islamic Jihad as a fringe element who are out of touch with most Palestinians' desire to live in peace, even if Israel is a next door neighbor. They looked at the reprisals performed by the Israeli Army last night, including the takover of the PA seat of government, the Orient House, where they tore down the Palestinian flag and raised the Israeli flag in its place. They also went over the destruction of PA police assets.
CNN is so biased it is sickening. They put the blame squarely on the Palestinians. The Israeli flag-raising is a sure way of provoking extremist elements to carry out more terrorist attacks, which I feel is what Sharon wants. He WANTS Hamas and Islamic Jihad to "go nuts" and accelerate their activities, because that will give him the excuse to say that the Peace Process is dead, re-occupy the lands that they've so far handed over, and impose strict martial law over the Palestinians.
CNN, by not paying attention to the provocative acts of Israel, by ignoring the moderate majority of the Palestinian population, and ignoring that by attacking PA police assets Israel is intentionally destroying the tools the PA needs to keep order, is brainwashing the millions of people around the world who depend on CNN for the news, in favor of the extreme right who are now in power in Israel.
By the way, I used to be strongly pro-Israel until a few years ago, when I realized that Israel has no intention of leaving the Palestinians govern themselves.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38504 posts, RR: 80 Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 596 times:
This is exactly what I was saying in the 'Bomb Blast In Jerusalem Sbarro' thread!
Our media here in the US is so Pro-Israel and anti-peace!
The Swiss and French are one of the few Western nations that are more fair in dealing with the Middle East.
I can't realy say that about the British however.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 587 times:
CNN should stop interviewing Palestinian radicals. As it is they provoke more attacks like the one in Jeruzalem, because they provide free publicity for the antisemitic groups.
IMO the Israeli reprisals were extremely mild, personally I'd have raized Ramalla to the ground to teach them a lesson in terror.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 570 times:
Oh, good God Almighty!! This COUNTRY is pro-Isreal, people. We should be putting the blame squrely on these Palestinian nuts who blow themselves up simply to kill a few people; we should be blaming Arafat and his thugs for not wanting to stop the carnage. Last time I look, it was the Palestinians using terrorism against Israel, not visa versa.
That does not mean Israel does not share some blame, especially for continuing the settlement programs, but if any of you were in Israel's shoes, you'd probably see things the same way they do.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 565 times:
fact: the West bank was allocated to Israel in 1948 by the UN general assembly
fact: Jordan was set up as a Pallestinian state by the UN
fact: Jordan took the West bank by force during their 1948 invasion of Israel
Israel has every right to build towns on their own land. Though it may indeed not be the smartest thing to do under the current climate, it does show resolve.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 559 times:
You are following the typical propaganda that most Palestinians want to destroy Israel, martyr themselves, etc. If that were true, there would be 500 bombs going up every day.
Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants are but a small, but loud minority. The activists probably number around 100 or so. But new recruits show up every time Israel uses strong arm tactics.
So you are saying that the Oslo Accords and all the subsequent agreements are worthless and should be ignored, and that the Palestinians should go home to Jordan?
The Oslo Agreements take presidence over prior treaties. What is clear now however, that Sharon thinks like you do, and has absolutely no intention to live up to Israel's commitments.
As to last night's incidents, How would you feel if French or German troops came to The Hague, took down the Dutch flag and raise their own. Wouldn't you feel a bit pissed off? Wouldn't it make you feel like joining some kind of resistance movement, even a violent one? This is exactly the reaction Sharon wants to instigate, and I wish you would admit that.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 546 times:
A small band of terrorists who are willing to die for a cause are very tough to put down. Try it sometime. The only way to do it is to marginalize them. If Israel withdrew completely from the West Bank, whatever popular support for the terrorists there is would evaporate. They would die out without means of support. Iran might continue funding them, but that's another issue.
Arafat and the moderate majority have every incentive to make sure that Israel has no excuse to delay the accords. If it wasn't for the terrorism, Palestine would practically be an independant nation right now. It is because of the overreaction by Israel (intentional) to terrorist activities that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are getting more and more sympathisers every day, becasue more and more Palestinians are coming to the realization that Israel does not understand any other language. Unfortunately for them, they are playing right into the plans of Sharon. This is exactly what he wants.
Araftat knows this. He didn't survive 20 years under a Mossad hit squad threat by being a dummy. He is no saint, that's for sure, but he and others have realized that there is no chance in hell of eliminating Israel. This is what Hamas/Islamic Jihad have refused to accept. But they are a minority. Unfortunately it takes very few terrorists to incite terror. The IRA in Northern Ireland was the same thing - the real militants never were more than a couple dozen people, but they have held the entire country in Chaos for decades.
In a nutshell, here is the situation:
- Most of Israel and most Palestinians would not mind living next door to each other in peace.
- A small minority of suicidal nuts (Hamas/Jihad) do not agree, and keep fighting their little war.
- Israel's right wing, currently in power and allied with hard-nosed zionists looking for lebensraum, don't want peaceful co-existance - they want the whole pie.
- By finding every little excuse to delay the accords, the Israelis know perfectly well that that will cause the other side to be upset.
- By inciting the extremists to violence, further delays can be justified, inciting extremist violence to a critical point (which I don't think we have seen yet).
- Arafat and the PA is powerless to stop it. Just like the IRA, Action Direct, Red Army Faction, and other terrorist factions in other countries, the terrorists disappear into the woodwork, protected often by people who are pissed at the Israeli tactics anyway. To make sure that internal enforcement is further hampered, PA police is targeted for destruction by Israeli military.
- Eventually, Hamas/Jihad will succeed in their biggest attack yet - killing 500 or 1000 Israelis in one day.
- This will be what Sharon and his right wing buddies are waiting for. They will declare the peace process shut down, imprison the entire Palestinian gov't (even if they had nothing to do with the terrorists), and the tanks will roll back into the PA territories to stay for the next 20 years. Palestinians are persecuted, start refugee flood into neighboring countries. Moderate Arab countries turn against Israel, reinstitute the Arab embargo.
- Israel wins the West bank for further colonization, water wells. The Arab states are not a real threat - the U.S. is always behind Israel, and there is no more Soviet Union to support the Arabs (not that it did much good the first few times anyway). Due to the renewed embargo and harsh language from Arab neighbors, Israel gets an increased amount of financial and military aid with which to boost their economy (U.S. aid actually came down since the Oslo accords, as there was a lower threat percieved to Israel).
- Palestinians lose. They go back to "People without a Country" status which they had in the 70's and 80's. Arafat dies a failure.
This is Sharon's plan. Israel has everything to gain from increasing the level of violence, and the Palestinians have everything to lose.
Ryanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3219 posts, RR: 17 Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 545 times:
Israel is just as much to blame in this war as the PLO. The Palestinians have lost a hell of a lot more people than Israel in this conflict, but of course a Palestinian life isn't worth as much in the Western media as an Israeli one. Sharon should be tried by the UN War Crimes board, and Arafat is little more than a puppet.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
LY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 538 times:
After yesterdays attack, a Palestinian official talked to a major western TV station and clearly said that no jew is safe in Israel, and that they all should go to where they came from. Is it really Israel who doesn't want peace? Huh? Is it Israel who gave the "Palestinians" a country, jobs, free utility services, an airport, and weapons, is the one that wants to eliminate the other side? Or maybe it is the Palestinian authority, who does nothing to prevent attacks on Israeli civilians (to say the least), dumps their sewer into Israeli creeks, serves as a source for illegal weapons and drugs being smuggled into Israel, not preventing "Palestinians" from stealing Israeli property and water, sending children to their death to look good on TV?
For every succesful suicide bombing there are 4-5 that are prevented, so there are more terrorists than you may think. Attacks on Israeli settlers (who I do not support and consider them to be a problem on the way to reaching peace) have been daily in the last 2-3 months! Many (if not all) of them were carried out by Arafat's people ("force 17"). How was the coverage of those events by the western media? Was that also annoying to you?
See also: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/90862/
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 532 times:
You are right in that a number of Palestinians have made some pretty nasty comments and actions. But after all the abuse that Israel has put on them, I can understand them. I'd be pretty salty too, and would be ready for a little trashing myself.
That said, of course I don't agree with the bombings etc. of innocent civilians. For moral reasons of course, but also it just plays into Sharon's hands in any case, and is counterproductive to the Palestinians' cause.
Like I said before, I used to be pro-Israeli. But Israel has lost the moral high groun, especially with a butcher like Sharon heading the government. That would be like the U.S. electing Charles Manson for president!
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 527 times:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, the peace process was going along pretty well, and the terrorists properly marginalized (not quite eliminated, but pretty quiet) until the Israeli right wing started to apply pressure to stop "giving in" to the Palestinians. They even killed Rabin for it.
If Israel wants peace, the should line up their own right wing orthadox minority against the Wailing Wall, and... do something.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38504 posts, RR: 80 Reply 16, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 515 times:
I think this is one of the few things we do agree on. This is an issue I take seriously.
Way back before you were born, there was a window of opportunity for peace between Israel and her neighbors who as been there 1000s of years before the Israeli colonization.
Israel chose to pass that opportunity and continue provoking violence against her neighbors. Why?
This dumb actor by the name of Ronald Reagan (Ray-gun) said, "We must unconditionally stand support Israel". With a super-power like the United States behind them, Israel took that was a way to always get what see wants. Israel has continuously rejected peace since 1979. The only two US Presidents who honestly tried to achieve peace between Israel and her neighbors was Jimmy Carter (Democrat) and George H. Bush (Republican).
Do you see a parallel between the two? They both lost re-election
Look at how powerful is the media in who gets elected to public office.
Who runs the major networks here in the US?
LY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 11 Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 512 times:
Don't patronize me. Israel and Egypt signed a peace agreement in 1979, that's why I wanted to know what you meant. In the mid-90's Israel signed a peace agreement with Jordan.
Did you read my reply in the "Bomb in Jerusalem..." post? Don't get into the history of the region, because it won't get us anywhere, especially if you are going to say things that aren't true.
Again, what exactly was the window of opportunity that Israel missed in 1979?
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38504 posts, RR: 80 Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 511 times:
I am not going to even get into to it with you. It's pointless. Just go ahead and eat up everything the Zionist media is feeding and telling you what they want you to believe.
Maybe when you go back to school in the fall you'll learn something in your history class.
Ryanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3219 posts, RR: 17 Reply 22, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 487 times:
What bugs me is all these people condemning all the Hamas bombings and yet when the IRA detonate a bomb in London (like they did on Friday night not 500 yards from my house) then the US doesn't give a damn.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
Nicolaki From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 475 times:
Who would have thought, I agree with everything you said on this post.
The Israelians are to blame as much as the Palestinians terrorist group and everyone who supports them. I remember they used to claim they wanted the peace, but I'm not seeing one single little step in that direction. This of course is related to the big egos of the Israelis as well as the Palestinians, at least those who always want revenge on the other. Both sides do not want to be labeled as the losers so they fight and fight and fight.
In order for this region to see the peace again, either the Israelians or the Paletinians will have to say "Hey look, we're tired, we put the weapons down, let's put our 'self-centerness' aside"
VirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 466 times:
As far as international news go. I turn into FOX Network, BBC or CBC (Cnandian Broadcasting) Those three organizations tell the truth as well. I stopped watching CNN 5 years ago. Their news characters are fun like watching the lenolium floor in my bathroom peal. Personally Boths the Jewish and Palistinians need to raid their capitals and rid themselves of Arafat, Sharon, Hamas, rightwinged harliners on both sides and Hezalah along with their sypathyzers who are poisoning their minds. Their cannot be peace unless bothsides change their government. Unfortionaly the people of Isreal tend to leran the hard way. Sometimes I think the desrve it for elected Politicans who only preach violence. They should've learned from the time they elected Netenyahoo. But I guess the people of Isreal don't know their history too well since they are now dooming themselves to repeat it. As far as Sharon goes; Hey you get what you pay for.