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Women In Saudi Arabia... Unbeleviable Stories  
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 18848 times:

I am currently in the middle of reading Jean Sasson's "Princess", and the book is unbelievable... it displays horrible details of how women in Saudi Arabia are treated and how bad their lives are, and I recommend it to everybody.

Although I was aware how messed up Saudi society is, I never imagined it was this bad. The book shows details of how Saudi women live that no person could imagine, and it is truly sadenning and depressing to read.

To make some details clear of how bad life is for Saudi women, I will post some of the stories in the book.

The one that gripped me the most was one of how a Saudi merchant's daughter was stoned to death for supposedly comitting adultry. The horrible truth of this case is that the girl (14 IIRC) was at home while her parents were in Europe, and her brother was having a party were the booze and the drugs were plenty. She couldn't sleep because of the noise, so she went downstairs in her nightgown and without revealing herself, shouted for them to lower the volume. Next thing she knew, the boys at this party came out of the room and they were so stoned and drunk that they assulted her. They started by ripping off her night gown, and although she was screaming who she was, none of them seemed to absorb it. She was raped by the scum, and by the time the third boy started raping her she became unconcious. Her brother was in the toilet and unaware of what was happening to his sister, and by the time they realised who she was, all had fled. The household's maids and drivers rushed her to the hospital, where she was treated, but the Saudi Motawaa' (religious fanatical police) started investigating. The boys gave a story where they said the girl came on to them and started asking for them to have sex with her, saying that she was greatly interested in how it felt. The boys' story was believed, and her father and the Motawaa' agreed to punsih her in the worst way possible: public stoning. The injustice of this is amazing... the girl is attacked and raped, goes to hospital for it, and yet the boys are still believed simply because they are males.

A second thing that shocked me in the book was the description of how even today, it is common for women to be circumcised, and have their clitirois and entire external genitilia removed... just to make sure that they can never enjoy sex as their partner does.

There are many, many things I can go on about, including stories of maids desperate for money brought from the Philippenes, just to pleasure the males of the household, and them being raped continously and nothing being done about it. The book also describes how it is common for girls to be married between 14 and 16, and how if a woman gets sick or does not produce children, she is instantly divorced and a new wife is brought in to concieve children.

The things in the book are horrible to read and imagine, but at the same time they are enlightening as to how messed up that country really is. As a result of reading this book, I now completley understand why us Arabs have such horrible reputations around the world; if people see Saudis are like this they will automatically assume all Arabs are.

Your thoughts?

[Edited 2005-08-26 00:43:51]

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18839 times:

I cant stand Saudi Arabia. I have heard several of these kind of stories in the past. Saudi Arabia is possibly the worst country in the world.

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18823 times:

I'll be in Dubai next summer for a few days, I'll see for myself.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18819 times:

Nonsense, they are freedom and democracy loving peoples, otherwise they would be part of the axis of evil, right???

User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18812 times:

Unbelievable stories and really sad to see that they are still living in the stone age there (no pun intended). I pitty every Saudi women for living in a country with such a horrible discrimination!

Patrick


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18808 times:

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 2):
I'll be in Dubai next summer for a few days, I'll see for myself.

Ummm, hate to break it to you, but Dubai is in the UAE, not Saudi Arabia, two very different countries.

Quoting B744F (Reply 3):
Nonsense, they are freedom and democracy loving peoples, otherwise they would be part of the axis of evil, right???

Ha, Saudi Arabia is the biggest human rights abuser in the world yet it is America's best friend among all the Arab countries. Go figure.


User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18800 times:

I would love to visit the UAE. Dubai looks absolutely stunning. Kuwait, Quatar, Bahrain, and Iran would be nice to visit also.

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18796 times:

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 2):
I'll be in Dubai next summer for a few days, I'll see for myself.

You will totally enjoy Dubai, the UAE are a civilized country where women have rights.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):
Ha, Saudi Arabia is the biggest human rights abuser in the world yet it is America's best friend among all the Arab countries. Go figure.

Correct, the USA are Saudi Arabia's biggest import & export partner:

Exports - partners: US 19.3%, Japan 16.4%, South Korea 8.7%, China 5.8%, Singapore 4.5% (2004)

Imports - partners: US 9.3%, Germany 6.8%, Japan 6.7%, UK 5.4%, China 5% (2004)

Source: The CIA Factbook

Patrick


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18779 times:

If the Brits wouldn't have found oil there in the 1930s, the Saudis would still live in tents and herd goats in a totally backward tribal society. Only the oil gave then so much power.

Jan


User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18771 times:

Saudi Arabia is our bestest friend in the whole world, which means that they are free and democratic. I mean they drive Chevys and eat Big Macs so they must be OK.


"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18760 times:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/princess/

You would not believe the problems this BBC documentary caused, about a young Saudi princess being beheaded for adultery.

"When "Death of a Princess" was first broadcast in Great Britain in April 1980, the Saudi government's reaction to the film touched off a diplomatic firestorm that reportedly included threats to impose sanctions on British business interests in Saudi Arabia and to break formal ties with the United Kingdom. Amid the furor, the British Ambassador to Saudi Arabia was sent home."


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17489 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18748 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):
Ha, Saudi Arabia is the biggest human rights abuser in the world yet it is America's best friend among all the Arab countries.

What does this have to do with the time of day? Horrific tails of abuse occur everywhere in the Muslim world--remember the spate of "honor killings" in Britain?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18732 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
What does this have to do with the time of day? Horrific tails of abuse occur everywhere in the Muslim world--remember the spate of "honor killings" in Britain?

Such "honor killings" are also happening here in Germany among Turkish or Lebanese people, and actually does this have absolutely nothing to do with the situation in Saudi Arabia, there it is the government that is discriminating and killing women for totally absurd reasons, not a single person/family like in the case you described in your post! You just generalized all Muslims in your post above and that is totally ridiculous!

Switching on your brain - or reading the topic - before you let dance your fingers across the keyboard would actually help a lot to let the discussion stay factual and on topic.

Patrick

Edited for typos.

[Edited 2005-08-26 02:02:09]

User currently offlineJafa39 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18721 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 12):
Switching on your brain - or reading the topic - before you let dance your fingers across the keyboard would actually help a lot to let the discussion stay factual and on topic.

Hey Patrick! Watch the insults..remember the EK 380 thread debacle? you wouldn't listen and look what happened! Try oh please try not to make the mods look like a bunch of opinionated jackasses.

Jafa


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18714 times:

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 13):
Hey Patrick! Watch the insults..remember the EK 380 thread debacle? you wouldn't listen and look what happened! Try oh please try not to make the mods look like a bunch of opinionated jackasses.

Why don't you simply post an on-topic reply with facts (about the topic under discussion)?

Patrick

[Edited 2005-08-26 02:14:09]

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18695 times:
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Mods are not prevented from offering opinions, nor should they be. If the dude is deleting your posts simply because he doesn't like them or he's banning you for irritating him, then you've got a beef.

Other than that stick to the topic and stop trying to moderate the mods by open posting.

ON topic....there are no countries under Sharia where women have equal rights, and to my knowledge the only predominately muslim countries where women have equal rights are the ones with secular governments.

Saudi is not alone in it's allowing of poor treatment of women.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineZeekiel From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18695 times:

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 1):
I cant stand Saudi Arabia. I have heard several of these kind of stories in the past. Saudi Arabia is possibly the worst country in the world.

I have to agree with you there mate.

I am repulsed by the stories that come out of there.

Bloody rapists, liars and murderers. They come wrapped in a blanket of religion and the drink of oil.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
What does this have to do with the time of day?

It has everything to do with the time of day.

Hint: Isn't the United States the champion of democracy and freedom?

Cheers

Zeekiel


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18690 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):

Ha, Saudi Arabia is the biggest human rights abuser in the world yet it is America's best friend among all the Arab countries. Go figure.

That's debatable. I would characterise them as one of the biggest. Saudi Arabia is walking a very fine line between the hardline conservative Islamic style of gov't that appease the extremists outside of the big cities, such as Riyadh and Dhahran, with maintaining the balance of investments from the outside world. The Saudi Royal family is terrified of an Islamic Revolution, like one that diposed the Shah from Iran in 1979. They still hold on to these hardline, conservative islamic traditions, but whahabbism is the ever-increasing threat inside the kingdom. One of 2 things ar going to happen in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the extremists are either going to take control of the country and Saudi Arabia will retreat into a Iran-like theocracy. Or they will have to modernise and bring themselves into the 21st century, get rid of these brutal laws that are on the books. I don't know very much about Saudi Arabia, I haven't been there in many years, but only time will tell what will happen. Just my 2 Riyals.

[Edited 2005-08-26 02:40:35]


Made from jets!
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18685 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 15):
Mods are not prevented from offering opinions, nor should they be. If the dude is deleting your posts simply because he doesn't like them or he's banning you for irritating him, then you've got a beef.

Thank you Ian! Seems that this guy likes more to complain and whine about deleted off-topic posts than to discuss about the actualy topic! I am glad that you posted this!

Patrick


User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 18659 times:

Quoting QR332 (Thread starter):
There are many, many things I can go on about, including stories of maids desperate for money brought from the Philippenes, just to pleasure the males of the household, and them being raped continously and nothing being done about it. The book also describes how it is common for girls to be married between 14 and 16, and how if a woman gets sick or does not produce children, she is instantly divorced and a new wife is brought in to concieve children.

I noticed this as well. While on holiday in the Middle East I frequently saw younger/middle-aged asian women (phillipino) caring for younger arab children. They looked tried, worn out, and some even bruised. Meanwhile the husbands are parading about pretending to be the perfect fathers.



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 18640 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
That's debatable.

We are here to debate, aren't we.  Wink

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
I would characterise them as one of the biggest. Saudi Arabia is walking a very fine line between the hardline conservative Islamic style of gov't that appease the extremists outside of the big cities, such as Riyadh and Dhahran, with maintaining the balance of investments from the outside world.

I agree partly. Actually I would say that the extremists only act in Saudi Arabia's big cities to get attention, I think you will never see terrorist attacks in a small city there.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
The Saudi Royal family is terrified of an Islamic Revolution, like one that diposed the Shah from Iran in 1979. They still hold on to these hardline, conservative islamic traditions, but whahabbism is the ever-increasing threat inside the kingdom.

Isn't Wahhabism the most "conservative" form of the Islam? A friend, who's parents are Turks, but he is German, once told me that the Wahhabism Muslims ban everything which is "fun", such as music, movies, etc.

He told me that Saudi Arabia is actually a country that "real" Muslims laugh about because it is such utterly conservative, is that true?

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
One of 2 things ar going to happen in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the extremists are either going to take control of the country and Saudi Arabia will retreat into a Iran-like theocracy.

Sorry, but SA is already an Islamic theocracy which is much worse than Iran (what I heard from people who have been in both countries, I have only been to Iran, so I can't say anything about SA).

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
Or they will have to modernise and bring themselves into the 21st century, get rid of these brutal laws that are on the books.

I think they won't anytime soon, as long as they get their "oil money" they can do whatever they want with their people and nobody cares.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
don't know very much about Saudi Arabia, I haven't been there in many years, but only time will tell what will happen.

I appreciate and enjoyed your post very much, it added an opinion and facts to this discussion and it brought new stuff to discuss about to this topic!

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
Just my 2 Riyals.

Very much appreciated!

Patrick


User currently offlineJafa39 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18608 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 14):
Why don't you simply post an on-topic reply with facts (about the topic under discussion)?

I will if you stop being rude to people, that way the post stays on topic.

Whilst on-topic, I think there are one or two countries that might contest the "worst human rights record" but the treatment of women in such a barbaric way tends to get people's blood racing quicker than abuses of other sectors of the human race. I am a bit of a pacifist but every time this topic comes up somewhere I start looking for an AK47.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17489 posts, RR: 45
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18601 times:

Quoting Zeekiel (Reply 16):
It has everything to do with the time of day.

No it doesn't. The US is friendly to the Saudi government. The crazy religious zealotry comes from the Muslim clerics that have garotted the government.

Quoting Zeekiel (Reply 16):
Hint: Isn't the United States the champion of democracy and freedom?

I know you're saying that passively agressively so why should I even bother answering this?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 18571 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
What does this have to do with the time of day? Horrific tails of abuse occur everywhere in the Muslim world--remember the spate of "honor killings" in Britain?

Because on the one hand we actively support the Saudi regime and on the other hand (now) cite Saddams brutality as one of the reasons we 'liberated' Iraq. It points up the hypocrisy of our policy in this region of the world.

The difference between the honor killings you site and the example in the thread starter is that the former were individuals, acting illegaly and condemed by the host country and the later is government policy, again, a government we support. So I'd say it has everything to do with the topic.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17489 posts, RR: 45
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 18564 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 23):
Because on the one hand we actively support the Saudi regime and on the other hand (now) cite Saddams brutality as one of the reasons we 'liberated' Iraq.

So what??? That doesn't change the fact that there's a clear and rampant culture of misogyny in the Muslim world. If we never went into Iraq, beating the shit out of women would still be standard policy in Saudi Arabia, killing your children because they winked at the wrong person would still be considered "honorable" in some circles, and suicide bombing would still be a righteous occupation. This thread has NOTHING to do with anything the US has done even though I know you all want to believe that Cheney is personally beating the crap out of women in Saudi Arabia. This is a Muslim problem and needs a Muslim solution. The Saudi rule of law is handed down from the Wahabis to a neutered monarchy--and they HATE the US...but thankfully they respect women  Yeah sure.



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 Post contains images Zeekiel : You can tell that just by reading a small phrase. You are judgemental. Actually I wasn't. My point was more around the strategic yet fragile alliance
26 Blrsea : Saudi Arabia doesn't allow practising of any non-islamic relegion in their country. You can be prosecuted if you hold any non-islamic relegious gather
27 Post contains images Mrniji : Can someone clarify which HR treaties Saudi Arabia has acceeded to? Probably the ICCPR (Civil and Political, 1st Generation), and ICESC (Economic, Soc
28 Searpqx : Not a soul on here has indicated that the way SA treats its women is in anyway because of the US. What has been pointed out is, that despite its abso
29 Post contains links Soyuzavia : Saudi Arabia already is run by extremists, and those extremists are worse than those in Iran could ever be. Every state organ that Iran has, Saudi Ar
30 Post contains images Numbertwelve : Yeah, have a great time in Dubai, Saudi Arabia And about the stories: I was wondering why people were talking about freedom for women in Afghanistan
31 QR332 : It is still a backward, half-assed tribal society, except the oil money means they can waste it on jets and 10 jaguars for 10 year old boys. Honor ki
32 MD11Engineer : What do you expect in a country where one generation ago slave owning was still legal (mainly slaves from Eastern Africa). They treat the Pinay and S
33 Post contains links and images Mrniji : And same person is travelling to Tunisia soon (a country with a Muslim Majority, as he might not know yet). Visiting Tunisia In October (by MaverickM
34 Santosdumont : Maybe this thread has more to do with what the US has NOT done. Year in and year out, the US State Department puts Cuba on the list of states who spo
35 Post contains images MaverickM11 : That's the first thing everyone has defaulted to here! People who subscribe to a similar form of Islam that is ALSO the rule of law in Saudi Arabia..
36 Searpqx : Show me . . . Because you're not saying the same thing. While everyone on this thread is in agreement that SA is a backward backwater of a country, w
37 Pyrex : Funny enough, Iraq was one of the countries in the region where women had the most rights (that is going down the toilet now, thanks to the religious
38 QR332 : Not a single person has said it is America's fault! People have pointed out the double standards and hypocracy of supporting the Saudis, but not a si
39 MaverickM11 : What's the difference? The same source is behind both the ignorant fanatics running the Saudi government and those committing crimes elsewhere. ...wh
40 Jetjack74 : Well, I was comparing a future Saudi Arabia to the Iran after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, although, I don't believe the current Iranian government i
41 QR332 : No, it isn't. Islam is not the source of these actions because it speaks against each and every one of those actions. The thing that they have in com
42 Post contains images MaverickM11 : It isn't according to YOU; if you ask THEM they will say it's 100% real Islam. All in the name of Islam...regardless of whether it's the "real" Islam
43 Post contains images QR332 : Thats the whole point! They twist the words of the prophet and the Quran to suit their needs! What the hell is your point? You are an American living
44 MaverickM11 : No. I've never blamed Islam. It's becoming clearer that you are incapable of understanding my point. I've never generalised all Muslims--you are havi
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