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I Give Up On President Bush  
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1581 times:

Though I will remain a libertarian who votes most of the time for GOP candidates, I will no longer support President Bush.

It has become painfully obvious to me that he is clearly out of touch with what is going on in the country. Instead of leading, he's wandering. The pictures of his visit to NO are an embarrassment to me.

If this man were a true leader, he'd do the following today:

1. Declare martial law (the ACLU be damned) in NO. After 1 verbal warning and then a warning shot, a shoot to kill policy would apply;

2. Send in armed MP's and military personnel (and necessary hardware) authorized to use whatever force is necessary to restore order within 24 hours. True relief efforts can't materialize while chaos continues to spread;

3. Call for the resignation of FEMA's director, the governor of LA and the mayor of NO. The director of FEMA has demonstrated that this task is beyond his capabilities. He's a public relations nightmare. The LA and NOLA politicians are in my mind criminally negligent for not insisting that the requiste amounts of monies be spent over the years to build the necessary levies and storm protections for what was clearly a foreseeable event. Because of their negligence we all must now pay.

4. Demand that food, water and supplies be immediately made available to the victims using whatever means are necessary. I don't care if we have to air drop MRE's from helicopters - this situation is out of control.

5. Send in whatever it takes to evacuate the hospital (with helicopter gunship support if necessary to take out those pieces of shit that are taking pot shots);

6. Send a measure to Congress to impose a 1% tax surcharge on corporate profits for 2005 specifically earmarked for disaster relief (charitable donations by corporation would count as a tax credit - not a tax deduction - to this amount);

7. Stay the hell out of the area since every second he's there security forces that could be re-establishing order are busy looking after him;

8. Assign Cheney as personally responsible for coordinating these relief efforts;

9. Submit legislation to Congress for the creation of at least 3 new refinery and terminal complexes throughout the United States. This legislation would specifically pre-empt any and all state environmental or zoning requirements but simultaneous require that the construction meet or exceed Kyoto Protocol standards with respect to emmissions. Any construction under taken under this legislation would be eligible for 5-7 MACRS depreciation.

10. Publicly apologize to the victims for his administration's inept handling of the aftermath. He should then tell people not to go on vacation for the Labor Day holiday, instead stay at home and conserve gas.

I don't blame the President for this disaster. I do believe his adminstration is acting without direction and the buck stops with him. Lead, follow or get out of the way. President Bush has done none of these with respect to this disaster.

-----------
Someone please go check on Falcon84 who I'm sure has fainted because of my declaration.

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1545 times:
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Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
8. Assign Cheney as personally responsible for coordinating these relief efforts

Which im turn can get Halliburton to help out!



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineCarmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4756 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Seems you're not alone...

Mr. President, Please Just Go Away. (by SlamClick Sep 2 2005 in Non Aviation)



What do I know, I'm just an 'immature troublemaker with only a passing interest in aviation' (or so they say)
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
7. Stay the hell out of the area since every second he's there security forces that could be re-establishing order are busy looking after him;

All though the helicopters could be useful.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1526 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
All though the helicopters could be useful

The helicopters could go without him.


User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2963 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
1. Declare martial law (the ACLU be damned) in NO. After 1 verbal warning and then a warning shot, a shoot to kill policy would apply;

Funny how Taiwan was able to do that about 5 minutes (okay maybe a few hours) after they got hit bya a typhoon.

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
The LA and NOLA politicians are in my mind criminally negligent for not insisting that the requiste amounts of monies be spent over the years to build the necessary levies and storm protections for what was clearly a foreseeable event. Because of their negligence we all must now pay.

I am sure that they TRIED but some hard-nosed Republicans, whom own the majority in all relevant decision making institutions, opposed.

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
7. Stay the hell out of the area since every second he's there security forces that could be re-establishing order are busy looking after him;

Very true. How about sending his own helicopter there to HELP and then he can take the car around DC, when he's actaully there and not in Crawford again.

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
9. Submit legislation to Congress for the creation of at least 3 new refinery and terminal complexes throughout the United States. This legislation would specifically pre-empt any and all state environmental or zoning requirements but simultaneous require that the construction meet or exceed Kyoto Protocol standards with respect to emmissions. Any construction under taken under this legislation would be eligible for 5-7 MACRS depreciation.

A very good idea.

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):

10. Publicly apologize to the victims for his administration's inept handling of the aftermath. He should then tell people not to go on vacation for the Labor Day holiday, instead stay at home and conserve gas.

Yeah, maybe he should stay in DC then, too and not go to Crawford, as he for sure will.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

Quoting Ushermittwoch (Reply 5):
I am sure that they TRIED but some hard-nosed Republicans, whom own the majority in all relevant decision making institutions, opposed.

Care to substantiate that statement? LA has been a long-time bastion of Democratic party politics and control.

The truth is that local politicians would never support building the protections necessary because it would surely mean higher property taxes for the people who vote them into and out of office. Therefore, instead of having the citizens who live in the area pay to protect their homes, all Americans must now pay to clean it up.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6293 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

I was (and am still) personally shocked when I heard that he was going to Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana personally. It's one thing to survey things from the sky, but another to be on the ground, getting in the way of efforts, and taking manpower away from wherever it's needed. I mean, come on GW, I'm not your biggest fan to begin with, but this certainly makes you look like a completely selfish fool...that's my opinion at least.

User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
3. Call for the resignation of FEMA's director, the governor of LA and the mayor of NO. The director of FEMA has demonstrated that this task is beyond his capabilities. He's a public relations nightmare. The LA and NOLA politicians are in my mind criminally negligent for not insisting that the requiste amounts of monies be spent over the years to build the necessary levies and storm protections for what was clearly a foreseeable event. Because of their negligence we all must now pay.

I agree with all of your points except this one and the tax one. Even this point is valid except for the resignation of Mayor Nagin. He was on the radio yesterday telling the Feds to "get off their asses." He has been on Washington's case since day 1, but I don't see what more he can do. He even called for a moratoriam on press conferences by the LA governor until she and W get 40000 troops to NO.


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
I don't blame the President for this disaster.

Good, I was wondering for a second. It's obvious no body knew what the hell was going on. There was a period of shock and destruction. Communications broke down so there had a to be a period before officials could get the word out about their status and their needs. They can't control crime. Some helicopters and planes didn't want to operate in the area because of fears of being shot down by people trying to get the food so that slowed things down. The president said he is doing what he can and the help is coming. He has no control over mother nature, why do we have to put some sort of blame on GW?


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
3. Call for the resignation of FEMA's director, the governor of LA and the mayor of NO. The director of FEMA has demonstrated that this task is beyond his capabilities. He's a public relations nightmare. The LA and NOLA politicians are in my mind criminally negligent for not insisting that the requiste amounts of monies be spent over the years to build the necessary levies and storm protections for what was clearly a foreseeable event. Because of their negligence we all must now pay.

Nahhh...that mayor is the only person who's stepping up to do what he can. I admire him for it. The Governor only just took office a short time ago, so why is she to blame for decisions made/not made well before she took office?

Although I supported Bush twice, and th war, I will say that it's time to bring every national guardsman back here and put them in NO. They were trained for that kind of shit, not f-ing patrolling shitholes like Baghdad.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26338 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1393 times:

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
1. Declare martial law (the ACLU be damned) in NO. After 1 verbal warning and then a warning shot, a shoot to kill policy would apply;

So, Constitution and American Law be damned as well?

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
FEMA's director

The guy is an overblown construction foreman, not a miracle worker. They need to take this out of his hands and work on stabilizing the situation first

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
the governor of LA and the mayor of NO.

Governor Blanco has done all she can in coordinating what she can from Baton Rouge. She commands one of the poorest states in the nation and has had no help from the federal government, only budget cuts. As far as Mayor Nagin goes, you are completely and totally off base. He has done every single thing in his power to fight for his city and save lives. The problem is, he is limited in what he can do and needs help he has not gotten

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
The director of FEMA has demonstrated that this task is beyond his capabilities.

Most of the current task is something he does not have the resources to do

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
The LA and NOLA politicians are in my mind criminally negligent for not insisting that the requiste amounts of monies be spent over the years to build the necessary levies and storm protections for what was clearly a foreseeable event

Oh really? I suppose Congress and the President are criminally negligent for the cuts in levee and hurricane preparedness funding over the past several years. Oh, wait, they are Republicans and not responsible for everything

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
8. Assign Cheney as personally responsible for coordinating these relief efforts

You are kidding. He would probably have another heart attack climbing the air stairs and flush so much money down the toilet known as Haliburton, it would not be funny

Quoting Pope (Reply 6):
Care to substantiate that statement? LA has been a long-time bastion of Democratic party politics and control.

So, David Vitter is a Democrat now? BTW, the statement was made about Republicans in the US Congress along with those who control the state house



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1387 times:

Bush like any president is walking a fine line, Either he stays out of the way and is accused of being uncaring by the wacked out left, or he goes and is accused of being a distraction to the rescuers by the wacked out left.

In many ways he can't wing, flying over the damage just doesn't satisfy those who claim he should visit.

So he did the only thing he could, wait a few days for the initial rescue efforts to get a foothold and then vist.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1372 times:

This is what happens when you have a smal federal sector.
When something like Katrina comes to a country like USA,
everybody is more or less helpless.
We who live in western Europe are more prepared.

And when you have so many people from the National Guard in Iraq...


User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1344 times:

So what qualifications do you have that makes you better able to handle the situation than those presently in charge?

User currently offlineB2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1369 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1330 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 13):
This is what happens when you have a smal federal sector.
When something like Katrina comes to a country like USA,
everybody is more or less helpless.
We who live in western Europe are more prepared.

If this is so, please explain how over 15,000 French died from a heat wave -- not the 3rd most intense hurricane in Atlantic history --just two years ago:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/29/world/main570810.shtml

--B2707SST



Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6774 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1315 times:

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
If this man were a true leader, he'd do the following today:

So as a Libertarian, you're advocating a course of action that is totally Unconstitutional and one only a dictator would do?

Your ideas are a gross violation of all state/Fed jurisdictional laws,

Where I fault the President is in not having put the screws to Blanco and Nagin early--even before Katrina hit--to ensure they were ready and having a plan of action for Federal intervention if necessary. On all counts, all levels of government failed.

I hate to see what would happen--God forbid--if we had another terrorist attack.

Talking heads like Chertoff, the empty suit, and the FEMA head, on up to the President himself, would be on TV talking about it as if it were a chess match while people die almost literally in front of their very eyes.


User currently offlinePsa53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3052 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1310 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 13):
We who live in western Europe are more prepared.

This is a lesson for us all.Here,earthquakes(Cal) are the norm.But at
least we have access to food and water.Nothing like NO where everything is underwater.

Back to the thread topic.In protest,I'm voting democrat next time.I'm
very disappointed in the administration handling of the disaster.No
concern what so ever that people were dying,getting rape or
people had no access to food or water.

I say recall!



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 13):
This is what happens when you have a smal federal sector.
When something like Katrina comes to a country like USA,
everybody is more or less helpless.
We who live in western Europe are more prepared.

You spewed this same crap in another thread.  taekwondo 


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26338 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1298 times:

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 18):
You spewed this same crap in another thread

That wasn't spewed crap, it was a valid opinion that is logically supported.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineJake056 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1286 times:

I think the president is doing a great job. what would you expect him to do? wave a magic wand and make all this enormous suffering dissapear? If he could he would, I'm sure. Where the hell is the mayor of New Orleans???? Ray Nagin?? Do you think Rudy Giulianni would have handled it the same way? Don't think so. Ray is the anti-Giulianni. How many of you have seen him hold press briefings? aside from his understandable rant on the radio last night. He is the David Dinkins of New Orleans. totally ineffective. and the governor? Has anyone seen her on tv? i've been watching CNN/Fox/CNBC, etc. and NO STATE OR LOCAL OFFICIAL HAS BEEN ON SCREEN giving instructions. Giulianni and Pataki were on TV multiple times a day giving assurance and instruction.

Blame Bush, that is easy. but let's pass the blame around fairly.


User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
That wasn't spewed crap, it was a valid opinion that is logically supported.

I think B2707SST unvalidated it.

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 15):
If this is so, please explain how over 15,000 French died from a heat wave

And how did he logically support it?


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1261 times:

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
Someone please go check on Falcon84 who I'm sure has fainted because of my declaration.

Me too, damn, now I got a bump on my head  Sad

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 8):
He even called for a moratoriam on press conferences by the LA governor until she and W get 40000 troops to NO.

 thumbsup 

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 10):
I will say that it's time to bring every national guardsman back here and put them in NO.

Ummm Nope.. As DUMB as having the national Guard over there at a time like this IS, yanking them out is even MORE foolish. Maybe one of these days W will stand trial for lying to the American public too.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):

So, Constitution and American Law be damned as well?

Yeap, extreme times call for extreme measures.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
They need to take this out of his hands and work on stabilizing the situation first

Oh you mean like they did before HE PRETENDED to take it out of their hands today?!?  Yeah sure


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1250 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 10):
Nahhh...that mayor is the only person who's stepping up to do what he can.

After he was the one who dropped the ball by performing a completely ineffective evacuation. Sounds like he's wanting to blame everyone except himself (there is plenty to go around)

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 10):
I will say that it's time to bring every national guardsman back here and put them in NO.

The U.S. military numbers around 2 million, and about 150,000 are in Iraq. So some 90% are still available.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
So, Constitution and American Law be damned as well?

You're defending Bush's position? I may feint!

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
Bush like any president is walking a fine line, Either he stays out of the way and is accused of being uncaring by the wacked out left, or he goes and is accused of being a distraction to the rescuers by the wacked out left.

Absolutely agree. Monday-morning quarterbacking, as you people call it, with the predefined conclusion that Bush is wrong.

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 13):
We who live in western Europe are more prepared.

When was the last Force 5 Hurricane to hit Europe? And I remember an awful lot of people dying in the Netherlands when their dikes burst some 30-40 years ago, and they don't even have the excuse of a hurricane.

I'm not saying that the NO situation is not dangerously out of control. But the U.S. has survived countless hurricanes, including Cat 5 ones, and the impacted area was back in order and rebuilding within a couple of days. The problem here - in case you missed it - is a rather large quantity of water on the ground, in some places 30 feet deep. Even Dutch, German, or French troops and cops might have a problem with that situation.

Charles


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1240 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
Either he stays out of the way and is accused of being uncaring by the wacked out left, or he goes and is accused of being a distraction to the rescuers by the wacked out left.

Typical conservative drivel. People under your conservative administration are dying in the streets, and we are whacked out? You'll be alright.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 14):
So what qualifications do you have that makes you better able to handle the situation than those presently in charge?

More drivel. Everyone has their own reponsibilities. I can't paint, but I'm capable of criticizing a painting. I'm not the director of FEMA or a politician, but I recognize chaos and people dying in the streets, and anyone can criticize our response without having the ability to do a better job. I do my job well, and I demand that everyone else do the same.


25 Pope : Name one constitutional provision that would be violated - not what you think would be violated but cite for me on single Supreme Court holding that
26 Pope : David Vitter is the Junior Senator from LA - don't try to bullshit us all with this ridiculous argument. I don't think the lack of preparedness sudde
27 NIKV69 : Why the warning? If these thugs are walking the streets with weapons no need for that. Put them down on the spot. We are trying to restore order in a
28 Jrw261 : What was the last major natural disaster europe had? Inform me, because I dont know... We have the resources.. we appreciate any resources given to u
29 Roger136913 : Just to let anyone know who did not catch this on CNN earlier..... A General who was on a phone interview got a little pissed when he was asked why it
30 Halls120 : New Orleans flood control programs have been underfunded for more than 30 years. Democrats are just as culpable as Republicans.
31 B757300 : Oh boy, looks like we have MD-90 junior.
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