Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Hurracaine Relief: Where Is It?!  
User currently offlineSLCSkyCaptain From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 30 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1532 times:

Hello my flying friends,
As many of us reply to such topics as "New 787 cockpit" and "Condoms on my flight", we are not talking about the most pressing subject. For days now there has been carnage, famine, death and hell in the southeastern states. I, for one, have become very upset with the situation.
As I recall at the end of WWII, there was a Berlin drop that required hundreds of aircraft to drop supplies to war victims. I am not suggesting this is the only way to send help, but it shows the desperation of those times and the change our country has gone through. Why does it take 2 days for congress to approve money? I don't care what they are doing or what meetings they have, they need to meet now and get the funding through. As we lay back and cry about how gas prices are high for aviation, people are dying by bullet, disease or starvation. This has become rediculous. We as aviation enthusiasts have a chance to show what we are all about. This could mean as little as a 5 dollar donation on the American Red Cross website or a drive(or flight) to the Lousiana area to do something about it.
I encourage all and any, non american or not, to please donate. If you do not donate, atleast have a prayer in your heart for those effected and the current situation. We have the power to change the world. But someone has to stand up and say something about it first!
Godbless and Godspeed!

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKykevin54 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

It's an awful situation, no doubt. I do take issue, however, that aid is being withheld because of any political or racial motivation. Point is, we were not ready for this. We never thought Armageddon could occur on one of our cities or regions. I hope they get things going and save as many as possible. We must learn from this because it will happen again somewhere, sometime. May God be with all those that are suffering this hour from Katrina's wrath.

User currently offlineBostonGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Thread starter):
As I recall at the end of WWII, there was a Berlin drop that required hundreds of aircraft to drop supplies to war victims.

Berlin airlift was to airports rebuilt over a 3 year period. No drops.

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Thread starter):
Why does it take 2 days for congress to approve money?

It's a formality. The money was available for the states to spend, however much they needed, before the hurricane even hit. President Bush declared "State of Emergencies" in the projected hurricane strike zone so that Governors of those states could tap into funds for whatever emergency spending they needed.

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Thread starter):
I encourage all and any, non american or not, to please donate. If you do not donate, atleast have a prayer in your heart for those effected and the current situation.

Excellent suggestion and advice!


User currently offlineSLCSkyCaptain From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 30 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1497 times:

Quoting BostonGuy (Reply 2):

Berlin airlift was to airports rebuilt over a 3 year period. No drops.

I was under the impression there was an initial drop or much needed supplies. This is still an option in my mind.

Quoting BostonGuy (Reply 2):

It's a formality. The money was available for the states to spend, however much they needed, before the hurricane even hit. President Bush declared "State of Emergencies" in the projected hurricane strike zone so that Governors of those states could tap into funds for whatever emergency spending they needed.

This is true, however the critical event was the levys breaking. It would take months to fix the levys to the standards required to withstand an event like this. The Governors warned the people and told them, "Get the hell out", but apparently that wasn't clear enough. Like has been said, nothing could prepare anyone for something of this magnitude.

All in all it is a sick situation. I am very eager to see what happens within the next hours. It is time for things to begin improving. Troops, supplies and relief is flowing in now. Many of the trucks full of supplies from all over the nation should be arriving today as well as chances to move many out. There is also more rescuing to be had.

DONATE, DONATE, DONATE, VOLUNTEER!


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1471 times:

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Thread starter):
Why does it take 2 days for congress to approve money?

1) Congress was not in session. They needed to get people back.
2) They needed to see how much money the states needed.

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Reply 3):
I was under the impression there was an initial drop or much needed supplies. This is still an option in my mind.

I wouldn't want them to drop into the water, which had now become a chemical mix of sewage, decomosing bodies, and other things. Turn on the TV now though, the convoys are rolling in.


User currently offlineBostonGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1462 times:

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Reply 3):
I was under the impression there was an initial drop or much needed supplies. This is still an option in my mind.

No. Russian troops captured Berlin. A month or two later allied troops took control of their respective sectors (accounting for half the city). No airlift was needed... the city of Berlin was easily accessible by autobahns that went through Russian occupied Germany. It was only when the Russians closed autobahn access to the Allies that an airlift was need. Why drop food on a city when you have 3 open airports?

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Reply 3):
The Governors warned the people and told them, "Get the hell out", but apparently that wasn't clear enough.

Let me try to help you figure this out. Governors and local officials have job responsibilities ... a really big one is protecting the lives of their citizens. It's their job to anticipate evacuations that might be needed, to plan for them, and to assess if their plans are feasible in actually accomplishing what they ask people to do. That is.... if they ask everyone to evacuate a city they need to know if everyone can actually do that. Studies as recent as August 2004 showed 33% of New Orleans residents wouldn't evacuate even in the face of a major hurricane aiming right at them. It's the governor's job and the mayor's job to figure out why (duh, poverty striken city has people who can't afford to fill up a car with gas or don't even have a car) and then to make adjustments so they can AND will get out.

There's blame to go around for everyone on both sides of the political spectrum. But remember... Federal help is designed to be initiated by the individual states. Had New Orleans (Mayor and LA Governor) not ignored around 10% of the city's population we wouldn't have people in such a horrific situation right now because they would have been evacuated before the hurricane even hit. They'd be safe, have food and shelter. Very uncomfortable, but safe and sound nonetheless. You should read this on MSNBC. Here's an excerpt.


"Russert: And it’s not as if we didn’t know this was coming. There were studies after studies. There were tests after tests. As recently as a year ago there was a tabletop disaster scenario played out as to what would happen to New Orleans in a major hurricane. And the results of those studies have now been proven to be true.

So the questions that have to be asked are:

Why weren’t the poor people evacuated? They don’t have SUVs. They travel by public bus. Could they have been evacuated?

Secondly, in terms of pre-positioning, where were the troops, where were the National Guard? If people were to be sent to the Superdome, why weren’t there cots and water and food there?

But the fact is that, when there was no evacuation and no pre-positioning of supplies within the city, that led to the current situation."


User currently offlineSidewinder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1440 times:

Quoting BostonGuy (Reply 5):
But the fact is that, when there was no evacuation and no pre-positioning of supplies within the city, that led to the current situation."

Well said. and given the fact that the water is rising and people are moving in masses all over must create a logistics nightmare.


User currently offlineSLCSkyCaptain From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 30 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1439 times:

BostonGuy, too much speculation not compared to fact.

User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 858 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1430 times:

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Reply 3):
The Governors warned the people and told them, "Get the hell out", but apparently that wasn't clear enough. Like has been said, nothing could prepare anyone for something of this magnitude.

It was clear to those who had the means and money to do so. Those left in New Orleans live at or below the poverty line. Some also weren't willing to leave all they have.



That's why we're here.
User currently offlineBostonGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1426 times:

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Reply 3):
I was under the impression there was an initial drop or much needed supplies. This is still an option in my mind.

You need to remember, also, that there are around 30,000 people desperately needing food just at the Super Dome. If you drop food you need not only a safe place (free from water and people in the way), and there is no such place, you also need to drop sufficient quantities so that you don't have 30,000 people who ALL need food and create a stampede of people. That explains why right now on TV we're seeing miles-long convoys of food being driven into the city at one time.

It's unfortunate that evacuating so many people to the Super Dome and not having sufficient food and medical supplies on hand (only one nurse for the entire complex!) actually made the situation worse.

There's just no way to do a drop in a manner that won't put a large number of people you want to help at risk.

This situation is very distressing... but soon we will all need to think realistically about how this situation happened in the first place, and go back to when the hurricane warnings were first posted (Friday). The only way we can prevent this from happening again is to fix the flawed evacuation process that was used as well and then fix relief problems.


User currently offlineBostonGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1418 times:

Quoting SLCSkyCaptain (Reply 7):
BostonGuy, too much speculation not compared to fact

LOL... it would help if you shared what you consider to be speculation!


User currently offlineBA747400 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1374 times:

Quoting Kykevin54 (Reply 1):
Point is, we were not ready for this.

Forgive me, but this is NOT an excuse. The city of New Orleans had built a levy system to protect against high seas. The problem is, that NO major test were done, and now the whole city is under water because of it. Above all, everyone in the city, AND in DC knows that New Orleans is 6-11 feet below sea level at any point in the year. This being known, why wasn't any thing done? I watched a program just a few months ago stating "if a major hurricane hits the city, it will be all over...etc". Ok, ok, so its easy to say "well, we cant stop mother nature." that's true, but lets face it; we live in one of the most technological advanced countries in the world and your trying to tell me that there was NOTHING we could have done to help reduce the blow? What about the genius engineers who can build a bridge the size of Rhode Island, or those making jets that can fly hundreds to the other side of the world (Even into outer-space!!) within just hours?!

Alright, so lets say that we couldn't have helped reduce the blow any better....We had ONE FULL WEEK to evacuate the city and prepare. No warning? A hurricane is the ONLY major disaster that can be predicted days ahead of time with warnings and predictions. Tornadoes and earthquakes; you cant predict them. This situation was foreseen and they still had to leave people behind. I saw a picture of the highway leaving New Orleans and the right side was backed up. The left side was empty (Who wants to go in?!) My question is why wasn't the left side opened? Even two lanes out of the four? Get those people out of there ASAP. Offer UAL a tax deduction or something to come and fly these people out to family. Rent hotels out. We are spending BILLIONS on Iraq; why not put a few million into housing these people for a few weeks; rent a cruise ship, ANYTHING!! But no, we waited too long, "hoped for the best" but got the worst. The worst part was watching the evacuating and knowing that in just hours people would die and whole lives would be ruined. Its like forecasting death: Knowing that major actions can be done to stop it, but our leaders, our people to watch over us, were hardly doing anything. I undestand that some people dont have money to leave; is this an excuse to leave them? Get buses to come though the town, trains, etc.

I salute DL for their efforts, along with everyone who has made a contribution in any form: Money, supplies, or even prayer. In tough situations like this, we should all help out; its bad karma not to. They're people just like You and me.

Forgive me if my post was offensive, but I find it offensive when lives are lost without any MAJOR attempt to avoid it and this isnt the first time.

Regards,
Mike

[Edited 2005-09-02 20:29:22]

User currently offlineKykevin54 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1328 times:

Quoting BA747400 (Reply 11):
Forgive me, but this is NOT an excuse.

I was not offering and excuse, just a reason. There is a difference. We screwed up. However, in a week or two when we have everyone out of the city, we can take a step back and point fingers. Right now, the priority is taking care of a bad situation. Saying, "Well, if..." does not help those poor, hungry people waiting for help.


User currently offlineBostonGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1323 times:

Quoting BA747400 (Reply 11):
he left side was empty (Who wants to go in?!) My question is why wasn't the left side opened? Even two lanes out of the four? Get those people out of there ASAP.

I agree with you, Mike. And it's even more disgusting to realize that the city of New Orleans didn't even decide to use the Super Bowl as a shelter until Sunday... less than 24 hours before the peak of the storm hit. The city's plan up until Sunday morning was to leave the poor to their own devices. Shameful.

There was a "Contra Flow" operation in place on many highways... all lanes of 4 lane highways leading out of the city were being used to get people out. I did see some places, however, where Contra Flow wasn't in place yet could have been set up.

And, anyone who had a car with a full tank was able to get out of the way in time.

[Edited 2005-09-02 20:37:08]

User currently offlineBA747400 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1290 times:

Quoting Kykevin54 (Reply 12):
I was not offering and excuse, just a reason

I didn't put what I did as a dig at you, it was just a different view. And I'm not pointing any more fingers now than I was before. Also, I agree, my thoughts don't make any difference now; the damage is done. Hence why I "salute" all of those trying to fix a horrible situation.

Again, KyKevin54, i'm not being a jerk or degrading your opinion, i'm just stating my thoughts.

Regards,
Mike


User currently offlineBA747400 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1271 times:

Quoting BostonGuy (Reply 13):
There was a "Contra Flow" operation in place on many highways... all lanes of 4 lane highways leading out of the city were being used to get people out. I did see some places, however, where Contra Flow wasn't in place yet could have been set up.

Thanks for your thoughts BostonGuy; its good to hear that some highways were opened fully. Its easy for me to be ignorant sometimes, because only see such a small portion of the situation via the news.

Thanks!
Mike

[Edited 2005-09-02 20:45:58]

User currently offlineSyassine From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1241 times:

There's alot more relief flights today. Here's whats scheduled into MSY this afternoon.

ACA7058 A321 CYYZ AIR CANADA

TN465AT B73Q MDW (unknown owner)

LN222WJ BE9L AEX (unknown owner)

LN2BA LJ35 BHM (unknown owner)

TN465AT B73Q MDW (unknown owner)

DAL9813 B752 SKF DELTA AIR LINES, INC.

DAL9814 B752 SKF DELTA AIR LINES, INC.

NKS8005 MD83 SKF SPIRIT AIRLINES, INC. (EASTPOINTE, MI)

DAL9819 B752 SKF DELTA AIR LINES, INC.

NWA9765 B752 MSP NORTHWEST ORIENT AIRLINES INC.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Nola - Where Is It Going? posted Sun Dec 4 2005 17:51:01 by ANCFlyer
VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It? posted Sun Oct 2 2005 23:34:36 by Aa777jr
Baseball Tonight: Where Is It? posted Sat Feb 21 2004 18:16:45 by Yanksn4
What Time Is It Where You Are? posted Sun Mar 5 2006 20:06:32 by BMIFlyer
Is It Cold Where You Are? posted Wed Feb 1 2006 08:43:01 by ANCFlyer
How Much Is It To See A Movie Where You Live? posted Sun Sep 14 2003 18:52:52 by Jcs17
What Is The Shaft And Where Does It Go? posted Tue Dec 11 2001 03:43:01 by Mcringring
Where Is Vince Lombardi Plaza On Njtp? posted Sun Nov 19 2006 07:45:12 by J_Hallgren
Why Is It Unfashionable To Be A "Liberal"? posted Sat Nov 11 2006 05:13:59 by Singapore_Air
Where Is IHadAPheo? posted Fri Nov 10 2006 01:48:07 by WhyWhyZed