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What Is More Important In Iraq Than MS Or LA?  
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2080 times:

Tonight, 7000 activated National Guard members from Louisiana and Mississippi are in Iraq.

Why should the state militias (which is what they are, even though they're not properly named as such, unlike Alabama's) EVER leave the borders of the United States? It is my firm belief that the militias, while they can be nationalized if necessary, ought never to leave the USA to fight in a war, especially an offensive war that we started by invading another sovereign nation.

What in Iraq is more important than Mississippi and Louisiana? Can we afford both a pointless war in the dirty sandbox and the herculean task of resurrecting the Gulf Coast?

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
What in Iraq is more important than Mississippi and Louisiana?

International stability.
We Fu¢ked the pooch and created the mess; as much as I want our toops out of there, I know it's foolish to just up and yank them out.


User currently offlineRoger136913 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2062 times:

400,000 National Guards and only 90,000 are over seas.

User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2055 times:

Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 2):
400,000 National Guards and only 90,000 are over seas.

Once again how many of the 310K here are 'active'?


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2050 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
We Fu¢ked the pooch and created the mess; as much as I want our toops out of there, I know it's foolish to just up and yank them out.

Yes, I'm thinking more about why this asinine war was started in the first place.


User currently offlineRoger136913 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2046 times:

Ted

I have no idea how many are active. A General today (the one who took over) stated when pissed off by the media who asked there are National Guards in Iraq we could use them here.

His reply was "I am sick if this question, we has 400,000 National Guard people and only 90,000 are In Iraq. I come from LA and we had 6,000 ready but were not given the go ahead. He then said with a day or twos notice they would be ready. They were not ready before the storm as the Governor never made the call. Asked why it took so long, he said it takes a day of two to depoly and the destruction was so bad there were no roads to get there. So it took a bit to get here."



Not as I said I have no clue to how many are active. I for one would assume 310,000 active and waiting to be activated if need be.....


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39693 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

Sometimes MD-90 makes a lot of sense.
Glad you started this thread.
Too bad others at this site rather bellyache about a few people that took a TV from Wal-Mart.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1982 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
Yes, I'm thinking more about why this asinine war was started in the first place.

I really wish you could have seen the torture chambers and acid 'bath' pits that Hussein had to torment and kill his own people. I would like to see the look on your face when you watch his troops following his orders by taking babies out of incubators in hospitals and leaving them on the floors to die. I would like to see the smug ass look on your face when his two sons would take a woman from their home, rape them, and then put a gun to their head and blow their brains out because they didn't want to hear them talk after sex.

What is asinine is the way you have stooped to a level so low as to completely disregard the facts of why we entered this war, to instead jump on the bitching bandwagon so that you feel like your pathetic life has a purpose by trashing the good that this country is trying to do. It is truly unbelievable. Perhaps you would do better by living somewhere else, in a much 'better' country that doesn't do asinine things. Surely, you won't be missed.

I'm so very sorry that people like you find the need to forget reality, concoct your own facts and beliefs, then preach them as if they're the truth...stating how horrible this country's leaders are. Shame on you, though it is your right. Enjoy it....plenty of people have died so that you can bitch away.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1979 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
We Fu?ked the pooch and created the mess; as much as I want our toops out of there, I know it's foolish to just up and yank them out.
Yes, I'm thinking more about why this asinine war was started in the first place.

Wrong topic, maybe you can think about what you, as an United States Citizen can do to assist your fellow countrymen in their time of need. Right now, people in New Orleans need our help, save the anti-war topics for another time....



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1973 times:

Usnseallt82, open your damn eyes and realize that we went to Iraq for revenge and to find weapons that were never there. As ignorant as your are, maybe you can see through the Bush brainwashing bullshit.


Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1970 times:

Quoting David b. (Reply 9):
As ignorant as your are, maybe you can see through the Bush brainwashing bullshit.

Bad choice of verbiage (though probably true) and WAY to optimistic. Some of these Bush huggers are so wrapped in 'being right' for the last several years they can't see past thier nose. It's a shame, but personally attacking them accomplishes little more then this administration does.


User currently offlineSidewinder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
Yes, I'm thinking more about why this asinine war was started in the first place

War stinks no doubt about it. But I wonder if the 282,000 dead kurds would have felt the same way.


User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1968 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
Why should the state militias (which is what they are, even though they're not properly named as such, unlike Alabama's) EVER leave the borders of the United States?

What are you talking about and what do you mean? We have National Guard and Air National Guard as in other states and do not call them Militias. There is an organized group calling itself the Constitutional Alabama Militia but it is not in any way an official state organization. Maybe you were thinking of Civil War geeks?

Moving on to your asinine statement about "militias" never leaving the US .... What's in it for the feds to supply and fund these organizations without being able to use them in this way. If you had your way then they would simply pull the money out and put it in the Reserves instead where the Governors would have no place in the chain of command.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Sometimes MD-90 makes a lot of sense.

Huh?



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3312 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 7):
I really wish you could have seen the torture chambers and acid 'bath' pits that Hussein had to torment and kill his own people. I would like to see the look on your face when you watch his troops following his orders by taking babies out of incubators in hospitals and leaving them on the floors to die. I would like to see the smug ass look on your face when his two sons would take a woman from their home, rape them, and then put a gun to their head and blow their brains out because they didn't want to hear them talk after sex.

Guess who was a close ally in those times....and would still be if Saddam had not threaten the Saudi regime in August 1990.....which would have put some 1/3 of all world oil reserves in his bloody and especially unpredictable hands ?

There is no government on this planet that goes to war for any or all the reasons you stated above and even more of the same (horrible) kind.
But....they will resurface one day to serve a good purpose: to justify.


User currently offlineMagnetass From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

Folks, please, for the love of all that is holy, just stop and use your brains for a second.

There is no logocal reason why the City of NO needed thousands of NG troops immediately. Between the NOPD and the state and parish cops, had the citizenry not devolved into complete anarchy in a matter of hours, the security in place was more than sufficient. What happened there was savagery beyond scope, and to characterize it as "people stealing TVs from Wal-Mart" is nonsense. The NG on hand was more than sufficient to deal with the anarchy at any point had the order been given.

The NG is not needed to rebuild the gulf coast, thanks. There is PLENTY of private industry to do that, and nobody does it better than we do.

For the love of Pete folks, 90K troops out of 400K will not affect any portion of disaster relief, and if it does, what that means is that we need a bigger military, huh? If you think a democratic state in the mid-east is a bad idea, if you think ending genocide is a poor choice, if you believe that engaging Al Queda in Iraq instead of here is a rotten decision, fine.....there are plenty of legit reasons to voice displeasure over Iraq....but this one is just asinine.


User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1938 times:

MD-90 is dead on. We need to stop fighting this war in Iraq like a bunch of pussies. Bring in the heavy artillery and get it over with already! Fighting a PC war is getting too many of our troops killed.

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39693 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

Quoting Magnetass (Reply 14):
What happened there was savagery beyond scope, and to characterize it as "people stealing TVs from Wal-Mart" is nonsense.

I guess you watch the 'No Spin Zone'.  Yeah sure



Why should we waste our money on a bunch of Colored Folks anyway?

Signed
Magnetass



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1924 times:

There is no logocal reason why the City of NO needed thousands of NG troops immediately. Between the NOPD and the state and parish cops, had the citizenry not devolved into complete anarchy in a matter of hours, the security in place was more than sufficient.

Huh? Have you been living in a cave since Katrina hit? The NOPD was overwhelmed from the onset. At one point, officers had to barricade themselves in a station house because they were so out numbered and outgunned by looters and hysterical citizens. The carnage the officers were subjected to resulted in two NOPD officers taking their own lives. Close to 500 officers, that's roughly a third of their department, went missing shortly after the hurricane hit and you say there is no logical reason why NG troops were needed immediately? NG troops should have been deployed to assist with the evacuation of close to half a million people before Katrina struck the city.


User currently offlineMagnetass From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

What I mean is that the anarchy defied logic. Normally when something like this happens, the citizens pull together. In this case, things went insane.....quickly, and that is unprecedented in a natural disaster. Certainly the 4 or 5 thousand NG not sent by Gov. Blanco should have been sufficient to hold the fort untill more arrived, even under the worst conditions.

Hurricane Andrew was handled by like numbers of police and FLNG.

Hey Superfly...if you want that noise to sell, try peddling it to the black guy in charge in NO, or the Governor, 'cause last time I checked the gubmint was spending crazy money on NO.

You probably will have better luck getting somebody who isn't a public servant to believe that garbage.

[Edited 2005-09-08 11:09:19]

[Edited 2005-09-08 11:10:01]

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1911 times:

The State Defense force is a military entity authorized by both the State Code of Alabama and Executive Order. The State Defense Force (SDF) is the state’s authorized militia and assumes the state mission of the Alabama National Guard in the event the Guard is mobilized.

And how many of those 90,000 National Guard members are policemen, firefighters, and doctors/nurses/EMTs?

Quoting Magnetass (Reply 14):
If you think a democratic state in the mid-east is a bad idea, if you think ending genocide is a poor choice, if you believe that engaging Al Queda in Iraq instead of here is a rotten decision, fine.....there are plenty of legit reasons to voice displeasure over Iraq....but this one is just asinine.

1. The USA does not have the right to attempt to create other nations
2. The USA does not have the right to attempt to end genocide in other nations
3. The USA could never have engaged Al Queda in Iraq until the guvmunt CREATED an insurgency -- many of whom are resisting to oust the imperialistic oppressors that have invaded THEIR land.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1887 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 7):
I really wish you could have seen the torture chambers and acid 'bath' pits that Hussein had to torment and kill his own people. I would like to see the look on your face when you watch his troops following his orders by taking babies out of incubators in hospitals and leaving them on the floors to die. I would like to see the smug ass look on your face when his two sons would take a woman from their home, rape them, and then put a gun to their head and blow their brains out because they didn't want to hear them talk after sex.

Do you really think any of the "bring the boys and girls back home now" crowd cares? If it isn't happening in their backyard, or on their TV screens, they don't care. As long as they have their plasma TV and a comfortable chair, the fact that people elsewhere might be suffering at the hands of brutal dictatorships is irrelevant. The "it's not my problem mentality" also gave us the Kosovo genocide, the continuing genocide in Africa, and the Holocaust.

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 13):
There is no government on this planet that goes to war for any or all the reasons you stated above and even more of the same (horrible) kind.

You are probably right, and isn't that a sad commentary on modern civilization? We all stand by and do nothing while genocide rages around us, and feel smug because we go to the UN and pontificate about obeying the rule of law.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 19):
2. The USA does not have the right to attempt to end genocide in other nations

So if we don't have the right to stop genocide, who does? And if no one else does, should we just do nothing in the face of mass murder?


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8052 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1875 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 7):
I would like to see the look on your face when you watch his troops following his orders by taking babies out of incubators in hospitals and leaving them on the floors to die.

That rubbish about babies being taken out of incubators was made up by George I's people to justify the first Gulr War in 90 / 91. Some Kuwaiti girl testified in the US Congress about Iraqi brutality in Kuwait and this was the main event, the line you quote above. Turned out the girl was the daughter of Kuwait's ambassador to the US and hadn't been to Kuwait for years, if ever. The whole thing was made up.

May I add that I find it highly implausible that this Usnseallt82 character, who clearly delights in such a graphic rollcall of brutality, could care that much about the wellbeing of some Arabs. I think he's just in it cos he's in love with W and all the killing that springs from such a love affair.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39693 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1850 times:

Quoting Magnetass (Reply 18):
gubmint

Want to use correct English?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1835 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
As long as they have their plasma TV and a comfortable chair, the fact that people elsewhere might be suffering at the hands of brutal dictatorships is irrelevant. The "it's not my problem mentality" also gave us the Kosovo genocide, the continuing genocide in Africa, and the Holocaust.

I agree completely. As long as the news reports don't show what's really going on while they watch the evening recap on those plasma screens, then for all they're concerned it doesn't exist. If it doesn't exist, who cares...this now gives them self-contrived justification to claim it as an illegal war with absolutely no point other than Americans want oil. The problem is that all of the troubles we are having with this war are just a byproduct of the life we defend; a life that by nature creates an apathetic audience. Its very unfortunate, especially when people don't care at all to think outside of the box.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 21):
The whole thing was made up.

I'd tell that to the troops who found fetal corpses on hospital floors and on beds outside the incubators. Didn't catch that on your evening news recap, did ya? Therefore, it must not exist. (see above)

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 21):
May I add that I find it highly implausible that this Usnseallt82 character, who clearly delights in such a graphic rollcall of brutality, could care that much about the wellbeing of some Arabs. I think he's just in it cos he's in love with W and all the killing that springs from such a love affair.

I hate war. I hate the fact that death and destruction are such a prevalent facet in our lives today. I hate the idea of so many people dying needlessly in such battles that are usually procured because of political and diplomatic differences. The problem is that while we live in the world that we do with some of the people that it contains, war is sometimes the only way to stop injustices from occurring. F*ck you for telling me that I delight in any of it when the closest you've come to a battlefield has been on the same nightly news recap that you gain all your wisdom and experience from.

I have traveled this world quite a bit and have a love for humanity, along with a disgust for it at the same time. My personal thoughts are of no importance when it comes to why we fight until I'm some Admiral calling the shots. But, for you to attack my personal character causes me to explain this to you. I do care for the people we defend, no matter what their nationality, and couldn't give a hot shit about any freakin oil...I wish this nation could start riding bikes or something to get rid of the fat asses we see everywhere here. Don't tell me what I feel when I fight for citizens of other nations.

I support our President and his decision that we needed to fight this war, but I hate the death that comes with it. In a perfect world, there would be no war and evil dictators like Saddam would never exist. But, unfortunately they do and when they commit acts of atrocity like this, someone needs to be there to kick their ass in return when the people cannot. Funny how you think I couldn't care less about the views of the Arabs because if your ass was over there in their shoes suffering what they do, you would be pretty gracious that someone is coming to save you. You, and so many others, obviously care ONLY about watching those same plasma screens and feeding your fat asses, not giving a shit about what happens over there. Your answer is to just pull out...we never belonged there in the first place. So, until your esteemed judgment, so many people would continue to die because no one would care.

As long as we get our nightly news story that doesn't report anything about it, we're fine. (probably the saddest reality of the world we live in)



Crye me a river
User currently offlineDucatiRacer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1833 times:
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I think the point some folks here are making is not that they do not care about the atrocities promulgated by Saddam, but that they did not give the US justification for war. If they did, why was the BS about WMD fabricated? Why did we not just go ahead and attack in order to protect the innocent Iraqi citizens from taking an acid bath?

Human rights violations are terrible, no doubt, but Iraq was hardly the only country on the planet where they occurred, and quite frankly so long as they remain within the borders of the nation engaging in those violations and do not constitute a threat on the US or any other nation, we don't have much business overthrowing those evil regimes to prevent them. Otherwise, why don't we scramble the B2s for some missions over China, or Sudan????

As far as the Holocaust being used as a comparable, I believe that the genocide in Germany was already proceeding at a brisk pace prior to that war breaking out, without anyone jumping in to stop it, and I suspect swastikas would still be flying over Berlin had Hitler not taken his show on the road, so to speak.

[Edited 2005-09-08 22:38:02]

25 Iakobos : Quoted in extenso from John Levins book "Days of fear - the inside story of the Iraqi invasion and occupation of Kuwait" (p.118) text in brackets are
26 Usnseallt82 : Thank you. I knew I couldn't get a news source because the story was relatively dismissed, but I KNOW it happened and I knew someone had written abou
27 Iakobos : I supposed you noticed it happened on the second day of the invasion, many months before any allied troops would enter Kuwait. So you also knew that y
28 Usnseallt82 : Uh, you better damn well believe it. Try talking to the troops who gave testimonies in military investigations as to what they saw upon first enterin
29 Iakobos : Do you really really believe in what you wrote ? The only army I know who actually "sweats" for all citizens is named Salvation. ...well, for what yo
30 MD-90 : Amen. The American military does not exist to fight for other nations. Any Christian ought to know it just as well as you do.
31 AeroWesty : There's a little something called the Monroe Doctrine that's been around since, oh about 1823, you might want to read up on.
32 MD-90 : The military exists to defend THIS country. Other sovereign nations are tertiary concerns. They are not the reason why the taxpayer funded military e
33 MD-90 : oops ---- ----- ------ ------- ------ ----- ---- --- -- -[Edited 2005-09-09 05:35:05]
34 BHMBAGLOCK : No, it would be an obligation that other countries should feel as well. WTF?
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