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Embarrassed About Requests For Money From Abroad?  
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

From a recent BBC NEWS article...

Quote:
The Red Cross is appealing for people overseas to contribute money to its Hurricane Katrina Appeal. But why does the world's richest nation need handouts? The public in many countries are accustomed to providing aid to poverty stricken developing nations, but the need to provide assistance to the most opulent country in the world may leave many perplexed. It is not a position the US is used to being in either. President George W Bush seemed to initially dismiss suggestions of receiving foreign assistance. "I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we haven't asked for it," he said. "I do expect a lot of sympathy, and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country is going to rise up and take care of it.'' ... The gross national income of the US is $37,870 per capita, according to the World Bank. It is just $810 for tsunami-hit Indonesia and $200 for poverty-stricken Niger.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pag...bc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4215336.stm

The whole idea of asking for monetary aide from foreign nationals is, in all honesty, extremely embarrassing to me. To me it implies that we might be too consumed with building other countries in our image instead of taking care of our own country. Is anybody else just a little embarrassed by this as well, or do you feel that even the richest countries on earth should ask for monetary aide from abroad when destruction befalls them?

[Edited 2005-09-06 16:01:35]


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34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRoger136913 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

Quote:
Quote:
The Red Cross is appealing for people overseas to contribute money to its Hurricane Katrina Appeal. But why does the world's richest nation need handouts? The public in many countries are accustomed to providing aid to poverty stricken developing nations, but the need to provide assistance to the most opulent country in the world may leave many perplexed. It is not a position the US is used to being in either. President George W Bush seemed to initially dismiss suggestions of receiving foreign assistance. "I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we haven't asked for it," he said. "I do expect a lot of sympathy, and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country is going to rise up and take care of it.'' ... The gross national income of the US is $37,870 per capita, according to the World Bank. It is just $810 for tsunami-hit Indonesia and $200 for poverty-stricken Niger.



Quote:
The whole idea of asking for monetary aide from foreign nationals is, in all honesty, extremely embarrassing to me. To me it implies that we might be too consumed with building other countries in our image instead of taking care of our own country. Is anybody else just a little embarrassed by this as well, or do you feel that even the richest countries on earth should ask for monetary aide from abroad when destruction befalls them?

Not everyone makes $37,870 per year in this Country. Asking for aide or being offered from people around the world is great. Kudos to those Countries that have offered any type of help.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1397 times:

As far as I know, the U.S. has not asked for much aid. Financially and techically, the U.S. can handle the problem. The only outside expertise I think the Americans could really use long term (and they have asked for it) is water management and levee construction experts from the Netherlands.

All other assistance is "feel-good" assistance, to let other countries feel good about helping out another country, IMHO. It's appreciated, I'm sure (providing temporary housing for a million people for six months, plus unemployment benefits, and the cost of rebuilding is gonna cost mega-billions), but the U.S. could do it on their own if they have to. The U.S. will also remember the countries that refused to help, even if only symbolically.

Charles


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1394 times:

Nothing embarrassing about asking for help when it's needed, especially when it's a castastrophe of this proportion. The only one's that really seem upset are those arch jingoistic types, who don't want help, but who damn the world if they don't offer assistance.

I say the more the better. Whatever help is given, is needed and appreciated.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1372 times:
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I'd not be embarrassed if we did ask.

I'm very gratified and grateful for the offers of assistance from our friends around the world.

To put this in individual terms, it would be embarrassing if we asked for help to buy plastic surgery, or pot, not to help pay for chemo or rebuild our house.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1364 times:

Quoting SATX (Thread starter):
The Red Cross is appealing for people overseas to contribute money to its Hurricane Katrina Appeal. But why does the world's richest nation need handouts?

Last time I checked the Red Cross was not The United States of America. The Red Cross operates pretty much all over the world except in Muslim countries where the cross is offensive. There it is the Red Crescent and Allah is okay with that. A huge percentage of its charity goes outside the US. So by all means don't contribute if the idea offends you. Just understand that there will be less in their coffers for the next tsunami or earthquake in a country without building codes.

* * *


Personally I think most countries have made generous offers and it appears that the people in those countries have responded pretty much as we have - sympathy for the victims, dismay over the lack of organization in the rescue efforts. I am grateful to all those nations which have offered aid, whether we accept the offer or not.

I had a very fortunate experience when I was young. We got burned out, right down to the ground. We had nothing out of that fire but the clothes we were wearing when we ran out of the burning building. I say 'fortunate' because (1) No one died. (2) We had a rental house standing empty and moved into that. (3) Even though we were not poor, the people of town gave us all kinds of aid - towels, kitchen utensils, coats, blankets etc. We accepted them with gratitude. I came away from that with a deep and abiding faith in the basic goodness of my neighbors. I've learned conflicting lessons about people since, but I really think that people do want to help each other in hard times.



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User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1363 times:

Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 1):
Not everyone makes $37,870 per year in this Country

100% Agreed, but why not ask those Americans who are better off to make the donations. Why does the Red Cross feel the need to ask other countries to help fill their US-related coffers?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 2):
As far as I know, the U.S. has not asked for much aid.

I would agree that it appears the government has not asked for any foriegn aid, but apparently some NGO's are starting to ask on their own. This has come as quite a shock to me.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Whatever help is given, is needed and appreciated.

Needed? As in there is no more left for us to contribute on our own? What is the point of being a superpower if it's not to handle your own problems as needed? The concept that we cannot handle this on our own truly floors me. If it's true, then there I believe our current system simply isn't working the way it should. If it's not true, then why are the NGO's starting to request help that isn't truly needed?



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User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1358 times:

Quoting SATX (Thread starter):
Is anybody else just a little embarrassed by this as well,

YES, Absolutely!!!

That fact we need help is offensive; and hilarious given that "most" conservatives I know say 'oh the poor (racial group) people, they don't know how to take responsibility for themselves. Why aren't we taking responsiblity for ourselves or should I get a V-chip shoved up my a$$ like my TV?


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1355 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 6):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Whatever help is given, is needed and appreciated.

Needed?

I agree with SATX on this. I would say that it is not really needed, but it is appreciated. The total insured cost of this disaster is going to be at least $25-30 billion, plus uninsured costs, but the economic costs (lost jobs and productivity, for example) will be far higher - I'd say in the $100-200 million range PER DAY. That means $10-20 billion of lost GDP in the first 3 months, and we know that some things will take a lot longer than that to get back to normal.

So even if the international community gave, say, several billion dollars (which is a ton of money), it would still be a small fraction of the total cost.

Charles

[Edited 2005-09-06 16:41:37]

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20550 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

Well let's not let facts get in the way of our "national embarassment". If you read further down the article:

"No country has enough rations to deal with such an immediate need and so an appeal for outside help is inevitable, say experts."

I'm not the least bit concerned about the Red Cross asking its sister organizations for relief help.



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User currently offlineRoger136913 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1326 times:

SATX wrote

Quote:
100% Agreed, but why not ask those Americans who are better off to make the donations. Why does the Red Cross feel the need to ask other countries to help fill their US-related coffers?

I would agree why not ask those Americans who are better off. But in reality it does not work like that. Sure many well off Americans give and many don't.

The Red Cross as stated by SlamClick is not just the USA. It's an International organization that helps in the time of need.

I think if you ask those effected by the Hurricane who they want helping them won't matter. Just cause were a Super Power dose not mean we can't accept help when needed.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1314 times:

I don't think we've asked for monetary aide insomuch as technical assistance . . .

Regardless, I'm not embarassed about it - either way.

First, after the Trillions of US$$$ we've shoveled overseas it doesn't embarass me to say, hey, could get a hundred million or so back for this tad bit of emergency in our Gulf Coast region?

Second, I know some our arrogant American's here will likely crap themselves by this statement, however - we are NOT the experts on everything to everyone. So asking for technical assistance, whether it be building levees or managing flood plains or building airplanes should not be an embarrassment.

What I sincerely hope is, the $500 million donated by Kuwait and the other monies donated in the name of this disaster truly will go to the disaster, not to line some bureaucrats pocket. That is the single reason I never give cash . . . I made an exception this time . . .


User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1300 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
I'd say in the $100-200 million range PER DAY. That means $10-20 billion of lost GDP in the first 3 months, and we know that some things will take a lot longer than that to get back to normal.

that number is way too high.

The rebuilding effort will spur the economy down there, also, Other than tourism, New Orleans isn't known for being a powerhouse of the US economy the impact will be minimal.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1292 times:

I just wanted to clarify a few things...

1. I'm not suggesting that we should refuse any assistance offered.
2. I'm not suggesting that folks won't benefit from foreign assistance.
3. I'm not suggesting that Americans aren't generous with their money.

I'm only suggesting that I thought it would take a lot more than this before the US-based NGO's would need or want to go looking for help from other countries. Maybe the Red Cross just jumped the gun a little, or maybe they really are having trouble getting enough money from Americans alone.



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User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1286 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 12):
The rebuilding effort will spur the economy down there, also, Other than tourism, New Orleans isn't known for being a powerhouse of the US economy the impact will be minimal.

WHAT? The port of New Orleans is incredibly important, as is the Mississippi River. This will have wide-ranging detrimental effects on the American economy.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 14):
important

CRITICAL

Without the Mississippi, NOTHING (darn close to) goes to manufacturing in the midwest.


User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 14):
WHAT? The port of New Orleans is incredibly important, as is the Mississippi River. This will have wide-ranging detrimental effects on the American economy



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 15):
CRITICAL

Without the Mississippi, NOTHING (darn close to) goes to manufacturing in the midwest.

There are many other ports which can be used. and plenty of other ways to get things to the Midwest.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1243 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 16):

There are many other ports which can be used. and plenty of other ways to get things to the Midwest.

Not efficiently.


Say you have 200 tons of steel to move from overseas to the US and namely Saint Louis. Sure getting it to port like SFO is cheap, but THEN what?

The Cheapest way is up the river on a barge. Using a plane or train is almost cost prohibitive.


User currently offline747400F From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1238 times:

Quoting SATX (Thread starter):
that we might be too consumed with building other countries

hmmm isn't the US more concerned with destroying other countries?


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1226 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 12):
Other than tourism, New Orleans isn't known for being a powerhouse of the US economy the impact will be minimal.

 spit  spit  spit  spit 

Economics wasn't your strong suit in school was it!!!!

How about the LARGEST sea port in the country with Mississippi River and railroad connections for the entire midwest and southwestern states? Ring any bells???

Do you think CPT Kirk simply beams the stuff to it's destination?

Sure, there are other ports . . . but the shipping costs for bringing goods from the east or west coast is prohibitive . . .

And how about oil production and refining . . . not a significant economic impact? Tell me MillionFlyer, do you drive? Anything? Have you not filled the tank on what ever that is recently, say in the last 72 hours?

Lastly, are you for real or did you post this lunacy just to  stirthepot ? Are you taking lessons from B744F??


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20550 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1220 times:

Quoting 747400F (Reply 18):
hmmm isn't the US more concerned with destroying other countries?

I see you went to the Barbara Bush Charm School, yes?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1213 times:



User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1198 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
Economics wasn't your strong suit in school was it!!!!

Um, actually yes it was, and the stock market is agreeing with me today.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
And how about oil production and refining . . . not a significant economic impact? Tell me MillionFlyer, do you drive? Anything? Have you not filled the tank on what ever that is recently, say in the last 72 hours

In relation to the economy fuel prices are not an issue right now.

The markets are all up over 1% in the first 3 hours today because oil has dropped back down.

LOL at your myopia


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20550 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1185 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 22):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
Economics wasn't your strong suit in school was it!!!!

Um, actually yes it was, and the stock market is agreeing with me today.

During my years as a principal bond trader for a Wall Street firm, we had a phrase for prognosticators who thought they understood the markets like this. "Thank god we get our commissions whether it's a buy or sell order."



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1161 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 22):
Um, actually yes it was, and the stock market is agreeing with me today.

Fortunately, for today, you're right.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 22):
In relation to the economy fuel prices are not an issue right now.

Wrong . . . the drop in Crude Prices is spurring on the market today. And unless we can continue to rely on Strategic Oil Reserves and the courtesy of other countries like Germany who has released oil from their reserves, this cycle will cease. The 30 million barrels of crude released from the US SOR will not last forever, a month perhaps, then what?

But I'll bet real American    we'll see a hefty increase in consumer prices for coffee, anything related to soybeans, etc. Anything coming through the Port of New Orleans and/or up the Mississippi River will be impacted. To presume otherwise is shortsighted . . .

[Edited 2005-09-06 20:11:09]

25 Post contains images Halls120 : Not at all. Navigation on the River has been virtually unaffected, according to reports I've read. And the "Port of New Orleans" proper isn't all tha
26 Post contains links ANCFlyer : See this site, scroll down a tad to get the report highlighted below. http://www.maritimematters.com/shipnews.html US Coast Guard Reports On Post Kat
27 Halls120 : In the short term, yes. In the long term, no. Deep draft vessels do not use any of the aforementioned locks. The only bridges that affect deep draft
28 FlyLondon : Having briefly worked for Red Cross fundraising whilst at university I can tell you as soon as anything happens the Red Cross calls all their donors
29 Halls120 : Just got off the phone with my CG sources. The Mississippi River is fully open to up and downbound traffic, daylight only - which makes sense. I susp
30 1MillionFlyer : Exactly! THANKS for the support
31 ANCFlyer : That was in reference, I believe, to Mississippi River/Port of New Orleans river traffic and capacity and condition . . . unrelated to our earlier co
32 1MillionFlyer : I was quoting the context correctly. All of these issues are inter-related. If traffic is moving then there is momentum for the area to recover. I use
33 ANCFlyer : OK . . . where will consumer prices go. If you're hypothesis is correct and the market adjusts, where will it stop as it relates to consumer prices.
34 1MillionFlyer : Usually the supply chain eats a lot of increases and the consumer never sees it. This can impact inventory levels and Capital expenditures which can
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