Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
"Refugees" Or "Evacuees"?  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1166 times:

My wife asked me when I came home from work toight, if the term "refugees" to describe those fleeing the Gulf Coast after Katrina. I told her it didn't.

She tells me that it's causing a stir among some people, at least listening to local radio. Apparently, many African-Americans are demanding they be called "evacueees", not "refugees", because, according to them, "refugees" is a racists statement. I don't have a link, but I'm sure it's something to put forth to all members of Anet in good stead.

So, does it bother you, and do you see it as racist in any way?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1162 times:

I saw a new guy last night at my Houston complex on the terrace next to mine.

I asked if he just moved in. His reply: I’m a refugee.

For the record he’s a young guy (26-35), Attorney, white.

It’s not racist to him. I don’t find that term racist. Obviously a white person assigned it to himself. Mind you, he volunteered that line, I didn’t probe for info.

Racism is alive in well in this country. It’s just the race card is pulled way too much ~ more oft than not frivolously.

JR – the FlyingTexan from a Houston hosting hoards of refugees


User currently offlineDiamond From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3279 posts, RR: 64
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1163 times:

They are not refugees, they are American evacuees.




Various definitions found online:

" ... Under international law, a refugee is a person who is outside his/her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of persecution because of his/her race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution. They are subgroup of the broader category of displaced persons ... "

" ... A person who flees to a foreign country or power to escape danger or persecution ... "

" ... One of the six legal immigrant categories, refugees are aliens who are unable to remain in their country of origin due to persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution based on race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. Refugees are subject to ceilings by geographic area set annually by the President in consultation with Congress. They are eligible for lawful permanent resident status after one year of continuous presence in the United States ... "


EDIT:

I'm not overly concerned that the word 'refugee' is being used in a racist manner. It's just the wrong word to use, because these people are not fleeing one country and moving into another.

[Edited 2005-09-07 04:53:21]


Blank.
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1152 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I believe that there is a reticence to call Americans "refugees" in the first place, and the news outlets are having some difficulty in deciding what to do.

I don't attribute any racist overtones to it, but I saw some people at the Superdome bitching that the MREs they got were not hot, and that the water was warm, and would not have been had they been white.....

while the national guardsmen were eating the same thing.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1148 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
and do you see it as racist in any way?

No . . .more tossing of the race card horseshit . . . last I checked races of all color and nationality were evacuated from NOLA.  redflag 

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
does it bother you

No.

Refugee . . . that's my opinion.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 2):
They are subgroup of the broader category of displaced persons ... "

If it offends them I'll change - makes not a difference to me I guess. . .


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1143 times:

Notwithstanding Diamond's definitions found on-line (whatever that really means), this is hype and nothing more. The only reason "refugees" is being construed as racist is because of so much civil unrest in Africa over the years and the use of the word refugee in that context. We're not used to seeing that stuff here in the US. Nothing more. But consider Serbia and Croatia, Armenia, Hungary, Poland, Central America, etc. Also, most peopl do seek refuge in another country. (I just heard Charlie Rose use the term refugee, BTW, just before I typed this. Wouldn't consider him to be racist.)

Point is the people from NOLA and the surrounding areas are seeking refuge (white and black, for God's sake), and they are evacuating. Either term or both works, and I see no racism; inherent, purposeful or otherwise in either term.

Diamond, I see your point, but I still contend that they seek refuge, so it's an appropriate term. International law and Merriam-Webster http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=refugee be damned. I stick by my definitions. Sometimes it's better to use a word they way it ought to be defined, not the way society has bastardized it. http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ook=Dictionary&va=refuge&x=15&y=24

[Edited 2005-09-07 05:11:13]

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 911 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1137 times:

>> I believe that there is a reticence to call Americans "refugees" in the first place, and the news outlets are having some difficulty in deciding what to do.

Well... In my humble opinion,

Refugee = anyone whosetheir residence and place of work have been destroyed, and therefore will suffer permanet (or long-term) displacement.

Evacuee = anyone whose residence and place of work are relativly undamaged and evacuated as a precautionary measure during the storm. Their displacement is therefore relativly short-term, or at least not nearly as painful.

>> So, does it bother you, and do you see it as racist in any way?

Sure doesn't bother me, but I am damn sure tired of hearing the 'race card' being played. I still contend that people who use racisim as a crutch are the most racist of all people.


User currently offlineDiamond From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3279 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1125 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 5):
(whatever that means)

You could have simply asked me what it meant ... or you could post a snide remark. It's all about choices and style.



Blank.
User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1114 times:

Quoting Diamond (Reply 7):
You could have simply asked me what it meant

First of all, Diamond, I softened it a (very little) bit to say "whatever that REALLY means," and seriously, it was not meant as an effront to you, it was an indictment of the internet. Look somewhere and you can find an argument to suit your needs on the internet. I'm not suggesting that you have that sort of agenda, but the internet is a shitty source of information in many contexts.

Again, I meant no offense to you.


User currently offlineDiamond From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3279 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1112 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 8):
Again, I meant no offense to you.

Cool. Thanks for clarifying.



Blank.
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1104 times:

First, this debate (the national debate, not this discussion on a-net) is getting ludicrous. For God's sake, there are more important issues to tend to right now instead of semantics.

Now, according to dictionary.com, the definition of refugee is: One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution. (I take the "as in" to mean "for example.")

The definition of refuge is:
1. Protection or shelter, as from danger or hardship.
2. A place providing protection or shelter.
3. A source of help, relief, or comfort in times of trouble.


Now, I DO believe there is a subtle difference between REFUGEE and EVACUEE. While you could use the term "evacuee" for all those affected by the hurricane, I think of refugees as those who are in need of assistance from the public or organizations, whereas evacuees are simply people who left the area but are completely self sufficient (i.e., staying with friends or family or whatever.)


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1097 times:

I've been using a fairly... "politically correct"... term: displaced citizens.


redngold

Politically correct usually induces  vomit  for me



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1090 times:

Yes all the evacuating white or African American are refugees. Any one who has had some sort of education can concur to this. When Webster was writing the deffinition of refugees, I'm guessing he wasn't think about hurricanes. War, Persecution, Opression, and Home destroying hurricanes all have something in common.

User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1083 times:

Interesting thread.
Me personally I dont find the term racist, but when speaking to a few "refugees" about it they said it did bother them. So ever since then I've been describing them as evacuees. And depending on how some of the African American talking heads want to play this, I think this disaster has the possibility of eighther helping or hindering race relations in this country, but it's too early to tell which way it will go in the long term.


User currently offlineGulfstreamGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 646 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1063 times:

Redngold had it right.. that's also what I have been using as well:

"displaced citizen"  Yeah sure

GulfstreamGuy airplane 



"If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane. " -Jimmy Buffett
User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1054 times:

Quoting Redngold (Reply 11):
I've been using a fairly... "politically correct"... term: displaced citizens.

So what would you call an illegal alien errr... I mean "undocumented immigrant" that evacuated?
 scratchchin 


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1052 times:

Refugee = Someone seeking refuge.

I see no problem with it, and feel that anyone who gets upset at being called a refugee is being a little oversensitive. I mean, if you have the time and energy to get upset at something like that, you have it pretty good. Someone in a truely desperate situation doesn't give a damn about what he's called.

Charles


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1046 times:

I've watched a lot of the coverage on this topic on TV, and given this considerable thought. I don't believe it's a racial argument.

Referring to the victims of Katrina as evacuees rather than refugees, I believe, retains hope that despite their current circumstances or the devastation they left behind, returning to rebuild their states is a short-term rather than long-term situation.

[Edited 2005-09-07 09:20:12]


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 999 times:

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 15):
So what would you call an illegal alien errr... I mean "undocumented immigrant" that evacuated?

Hmmmm good  point  Probably still "undocumented immigrant" since they were already displaced...



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 997 times:

They're refugees. If they hope to be back in their homes or on the ground where they once stood anytime soon, they're living in a fantasy world.

That place is Love Canal, Times Beach, and Prince William Sound all rolled into one.

Why anyone would WANT to go back to that putrid cesspool of slow death is beyond comprehension. Maybe it's because they lack any sense of microbiology and biochemistry.

Mark


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA posted Mon Nov 20 2006 18:23:02 by AAFLT1871
Anyone Here Heard Of Old Computer Game "Lotus"? posted Thu Nov 16 2006 13:08:01 by Thom@s
Pakistan Suggest "kinder" Sex Laws. posted Wed Nov 15 2006 21:21:24 by Thom@s
The Perfect "Gift" For Christmas posted Tue Nov 14 2006 23:47:59 by Falcon84
"Borat" Gets Decked In The Face! posted Tue Nov 14 2006 19:17:58 by Mlsrar
Bar In The Movie "the Right Stuff", "Armageddon"? posted Sat Nov 11 2006 21:34:21 by Aerosol
Why Is It Unfashionable To Be A "Liberal"? posted Sat Nov 11 2006 05:13:59 by Singapore_Air
Syria:"suicide" Victim Brother Now Also "suicided" posted Fri Nov 10 2006 12:15:20 by Kay
How Much Of "Borat" Is Staged? (spoiliers) posted Thu Nov 9 2006 18:24:41 by Braybuddy
The "Haka" And A Unique High School Footbal Team. posted Wed Nov 1 2006 18:18:27 by ArtieFufkin
Bank Fury Over UK's 50% Bonus "Supertax" posted Wed Dec 9 2009 18:07:46 by Aaron747
Miss California's "tape" posted Thu Nov 5 2009 05:54:42 by Mt99
Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history" posted Tue Oct 13 2009 12:24:22 by DXing
When To Use The Word "Racist" posted Thu Oct 1 2009 08:29:05 by FuturePilot16
I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait" posted Sun Sep 20 2009 05:07:14 by KLM672
Car Scheduled "Maintenance" posted Wed Sep 16 2009 07:01:59 by Mt99
US Esta To Introduce $10 Fee To "boost" Tourism posted Fri Sep 11 2009 05:46:49 by L410Turbolet
Honda To Lauch "Crosstour" CUV In North America posted Wed Sep 2 2009 15:13:24 by StasisLAX