Itsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2765 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5562 times:
Hey now, go easy on FEMA and "Brownie". It's not his fault he went from judging competitions for Arabian show horses (a job from which he was fired) to being expected to lead the rescue efforts of tens of thousands of people. And besides, according to our president, he's doing a "heck of a job".
Tbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7011 posts, RR: 27 Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5559 times:
You know, the scary thing is that I wish you were making this shit up. I really, really wish you were making this up...
This is downright criminal. Michael Brown needs to be fired NOW. Not only does he need to be fired, but if it is found that he was involved in any of the orders to turn back any sort of supplies, that should be criminal and he should be sent to jail.
MidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 15 Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5513 times:
Has anybody actually bothered to read the news stories, in some of them, there were legimate concerns.
Does anybody realized that FEMA was sucked into the Homeline Defense Department back in 2003, since that time, there have been numerous disasters in the United States, so far, every other state has not had any problems.....
Here is the mission of FEMA, which people seem to be confused about:
Quote: The Federal Emergency Management Agency - a former independent agency that became part of the new Department of Homeland Security in March 2003 - is tasked with responding to, planning for, recovering from and mitigating against disasters.
In times of crisis, the local government is the 1st responder, if they can not handle the problem, they turn to the state, if the state can not handle the problem the state then turns to the Federal Government.
I am beginning to think that people do not understand the roles of FEMA & how the government really works..... There are only about 2,000 people in FEMA
JeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5485 times:
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 6): Has anybody actually bothered to read the news stories, in some of them, there were legimate concerns.
Come now Mike, you don't think the poster would actually admit there might have been valid reasons behind some of these claims? Why that might actually imply there were people that had a plan and could make logical decisions based on reason, not just an emotional reaction.
I know it is hard to believe, but how could such a pillar of journalistic accuracy such as the "Daily KOS" be so wrong? It is so much easier to point a finger then to lift one.
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5476 times:
While I assure you FEMA has screwed the pooch on this disaster, in a lot of ways, in a lot of places I can also assure you the local government in NOLA is ten times more dicked up than FEMA could ever be . . . .
Until you read the Louisiana Emergency Operations Plan, and see for yourself just how literally fucked up Baton ROuge and NOLA were/are in their readiness, you need - whomever you are - to STFU about the Federal Government response.
It is the ultimate; the epitomy of Pot, Pot, Black . . . period.
Tbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7011 posts, RR: 27 Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5468 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9): Until you read the Louisiana Emergency Operations Plan, and see for yourself just how literally fucked up Baton ROuge and NOLA were/are in their readiness, you need - whomever you are - to STFU about the Federal Government response.
1. Post the plan in its entirety so I can read it.
2. Don't tell me not to criticize the Federal Government response. You don't like what I'm saying so you tell me to shutup? That's unlike you ANC. Am I suddenly only allowed to criticize the government if I have read the plan? Ridiculous dude.
Did you read my post? I made posts that showed (with links) that the governor asked for federal aid because she foresaw that the disaster would be beyond the state's control.
Do you have a link for your claim of "no communication between mayor and governor"? Its easy to make assumptions like that so that you can make your point.
UAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5466 times:
After FEMA was put into the Department of Homeland Security, their focus has changed from natural disasters to terrorism. And, funding for their natural disaster programs has failed. Midnightmike mentioned how the progression goes, local-->state-->federal, HOWEVER you have to remember that this is probably the worst case of chaos ever seen in a disaster of this magnitude in the United States. I hate to say this, but since it hit a poor area of New Orleans, this caused the choas to be more "chaotic." People don't have the money to leave before the hurricane, and people are willing to do anything to defend what they have. There was no way the state or local governments could have taken care of this problem. The Feds should have been there a lot sooner. But like I said, the progression Midnighmike talks about is theoretically correct, but that's just what is written in paper. Every disaster is its own animal, and FEMA and state and local governments need to realize that. There is no cookie cutter answer to every disaster. The thing is, the Bush administration is taking a TON of heat because of this, so they keep pushing the blame on the local government, but the local government and state governments have NO WAY of handling this.
Anyway, back to the FEMA thing. Like I said, their focus since 9/11 has been terrorism. In fact, I watched something on CNN last night, where they reported that FEMA was instructed NOT to take any refugees aboard military aircraft until they could find enough security screeners to screen the refugees before they got on the aircraft to be airlifted out, because they were concerned that someone might be a terrorist. I'm sorry I don't have a link or anything, just caught that on the news last night.
Secondly, the President, for his own image, needs to set up camp in LA for a while and not just go there for day and shake people's hands. If he wants to save ANY sort of sympathetic image he has, he needs to be down there working his ass off like EVERY OTHER individual. I think this would not only do a lot for his image, but it could be a real turning point for the continual bad press he's gotten in his second term. Screw the security BS, he needs to quit being a pussywhipped puppet and take back some southern ethic, get his hands dirty, and help. But then again, I'm just as happy with the liberals pointing out the faults in the president as he sits in Washington in his suit.
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5459 times:
Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 11): 1. Post the plan in its entirety so I can read it.
I posted the link on 5 different threads here. It's over 40 pages, I'm not posting the damn thing when you could go read it yourself (and the Mods would can it anyway likely) . . . and have a broader knowledge base of the FACTS instead of simply pounding on the feds with HALF the information.
Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 11): You don't like what I'm saying so you tell me to shutup?
Not telling YOU TBar - telling others, anyone in general - spouting off their mouths without taking all information in to account . . . especially Louisiana's own plan which in my opinion is a very vital piece of the puzzle when it comes to pointing blame fingers . . .
If the combat boot fits, well . . . . so be it.
Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 11): Am I suddenly only allowed to criticize the government if I have read the plan?
Aa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5456 times:
Get real, FEMA has been crap even before it was under DHS. They are always late in responding to any national disaster. Blame should be assigned to state and local government and officials. Why is New Orleans relying heavily on FEMA to bail them out? Cause their local emergency response was non existent. I am so tired of checking webpasge after webpage of news only to read about this stuff.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 64 Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5452 times:
Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 14): Get real, FEMA has been crap even before it was under DHS. They are always late in responding to any national disaster.
They were out in force pretty quick after the hurricanes in Florida last year handing out money and relief aid. But that was in an election year in a swing state where the Governor is the brother of President .
Aa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5443 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15): They were out in force pretty quick after the hurricanes in Florida last year handing out money and relief aid. But that was in an election year in a swing state where the Governor is the brother of President
Looks like you made your own point. Also, there is still a ton of insurance guys down in Florida writing checks. Did the Govenor of New Orleans react as quickly as Florida? I doubt it. Watching the Mayor of New Orleans daily on CNN is laughable. Where were you sir when your people needed you? No comment.
I recently received the following from a very reliable source (a retired Army One Star General of unquestionable repute). The source of this info is irrefutable in my book, having known the gentleman since 1979, he is of unquestionable integrity. He indicated the information came from a fellow Army Major General. The message in fact continues to support the facts that the Mayor and the Governor failed to act in a timely and responsible manner in this situation.
Message reads as follows:
On Friday night before the storm hit, Max Mayfield, of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Nagin and Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of NO and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed. President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act). Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in. Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation. After a personal plea from the President Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster. Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to NO for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were. The suffering people of NO need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them. This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.
25 Tbar220: Thanks for the website, it wasn't that hard to post it again was it?
26 ANCFlyer: Sorry, I thought you wanted me to post the whole damn op order . . . my bad. . . .