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Doesn't This Really Say It All?  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1722 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Gasoline prices have begun to ease, but even when all Gulf Coast refineries are running again later this year, consumers may not see a full retreat to pre-Katrina levels.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/csm/aprices

Doesn't that really say it all? Unbelievable.

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1704 times:

Note well that unleaded gasoline for October delivery is down nearly $0.50 from its high last week; gas prices at the pump rose in anticipation of higher replacement costs for existing inventories, yet they fall (if at all) only after realization of the actual lowered prices.

Gouging going on? You bet.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 1):
Gouging going on? You bet.

And will it continue? Without a doubt.

We had a news team do a report out here about gouging on a different level. They went around to stations that had the regular and plus grade nozzles covered up with bags and only the supreme brand allowed. They 'claimed' that it was all they had, forcing consumers to pay for the higher grade gas. However, the news team would remove the bag from the regular grade to see if it actually was out or not...each and every time being able to fill up on regular. Then, they tried to interview the gas station attendents, who always tried to hide from the camera.

Unreal. Pure filth.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3771 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

Yeah, you're almost up to our prices now. In Sweden we pay the equivalent of $5 and 50 cents per US gallon. Hopefully this means people will stop driving gas-guzzling SUVs...

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1690 times:

Quoting Doona (Reply 3):
Hopefully this means people will stop driving gas-guzzling SUVs...

Geez, I wish. I still don't understand the fact that in the middle of the problems we're having with gas right now how car makers can be running ads about new 2006 model SUV's like never before. I promise you, if everyone would stop getting these and switch to different models with the same space but less torque, we would see a significant decrease in our daily consumption.

But, people keep on buying them...and BIGGER ones too, then go and complain about how much gas is. WTF?



Crye me a river
User currently offlineRoger136913 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

I own a 1999 Chevy Blazer 4X4, Sure I get 15 mpg in the city but it's no worse then say a 1990 5.0 Mustang?

On the highway I get and no one can understand why 30 mpg on average.
With that said I am getting mileage then some mid size cars.
Though it's not a huge SUV, it's one none the less. I filled my tank today and it cost $36.00 and I only pumped in 11.7 gallons. I have driven for a week city and highway and only used 7.3 gallons.

When I do get rid of it I won't go back to a SUV, I will but a smaller car. Not for the gas prices as I am no complaining but to save a bit on insurance and to save me from yelling at idiots in the winter who think they can pull out in front of me in a snowstorm and stop on a dime cause I have a 4X4.....

My Brother owns a 2004 Jeep Cherokee and he gets 25 on the highway and about the same as me in the city. So again not all SUV's get bad mileage.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13608 posts, RR: 61
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1681 times:
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Quoting SCCutler (Reply 1):
Gouging going on? You bet.

At $5.00 plus per gallon? Yes.

At $3.09 per gallon? Not really, no.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSalso From Slovenia, joined Dec 2004, 205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

In Slovenia a gallon of gas (or diesel for that matter - it's almost the same price) costs approximately 4,5 US$. The prices have been going up for quite some time now and they don't seem to stop any time soon.

Does that make people buy more economic cars? Some yes, most of them no. They still buy large sedans, vans and SUVs with a skyhigh fuel consumption. Some buy diesel cars as an alternative, but those usually have huge motors, too.

I think, it's the same over the Pond. People will keep driving what they always have, no matter the gas price. And there will be very few hybrid Toyota Prius cars driving around.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1607 times:

Did anyone suspect it would be different??? I certainly didn't and said so in a similar thread last week . . . I suspet $3. a gallon or better in the US is here to stay . . . oil companies know we'll pay it, therefore they will charge it . . . simple as that.

Alternative Fuels anyone?


User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1590 times:

Here in this "capitalist" society we allow a small cartel to control all of our energy needs, and then agree amongst themselves on a price. This cartel uses their money to purchase the government which then suppresses conservation efforts and alternative fuel research. Then as a pat on the back for all their hard work they give themselves a huge tax cut.

Free market my ass!



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3771 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1589 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
I suspet $3. a gallon or better in the US is here to stay . . .

Supply and demand. The world's oil is running out. And the oil companies know it. Even though it hasn't affected production yet, some day it will. Prices will continue to rise, and there nothing anyone can do about it in the long run.

And unless we come up with a way of replacing oil, planes will not be able to fly in fifty years, and this will be a commemorative web-site.

Cadillac started selling bikes. That's a sure sign...

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 9):
Here in this "capitalist" society we allow a small cartel to control all of our energy needs, and then agree amongst themselves on a price.

Do you have any evidence of this? (Not OPEC, of course - we know that's a cartel)


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1567 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 11):
(Not OPEC, of course - we know that's a cartel)

www.opec.org
Well, there's the blinding flash of the obvious . . . but . . . here you go . . . fellow Cartel Members.

www.bp.com
www.conocophillips.com
www.exxonmobil.com
www.shell.com
www.chevrontexaco.com


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1567 times:

US Oil companies also dioscovered that European refineries seem to be more efficient than those in the US (the refineries being more modern than tose in the US), concerning wholesale prices for petrol, without the tax being charged here to the end user.
So now they are buying the European market empty, driving the prices up over here.

Jan


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 9):
Here in this "capitalist" society we allow a small cartel to control all of our energy needs, and then agree amongst themselves on a price. This cartel uses their money to purchase the government which then suppresses conservation efforts and alternative fuel research. Then as a pat on the back for all their hard work they give themselves a huge tax cut.

The greatest coup of these cartels (if they exist) is to convince fifty million half-smart greenies that "gas-guzzling" SUVs are the problem.

Here is your homework assignment for this weekend. Go out to a place where you can sit and observe your nearest Interstate highway.

1. Count the SUVs that pass in an hour.
2. Count the 18-wheel truck-trailer rigs that pass in the next hour.
3. Calculate the fuel consumption for each.
4. Go to at least six major airline websites. Calculate the total mileage flown in a day. See airliners.net Tech/Ops or Civil Aviation formus for fuel consumption by type.
5. Sit alongside a railroad track (abandoned ones don't count) and count the number of trains that pass in a day.
6. If you live near a major ocean port, check the shipping news for arrivals and departures. Try to calculate the amount of bunker fuel used on each of these in the course of a month. (NOTE: You will need a calculator with at least twelve digits for this.)

Bonus points:

1. If you can see the license plates on each truck and SUV, calculate how much fuel was consumed driving from the capital of that state to your location by each. If trucks have multi-State "bingo plates" just select any one you can read.

* * *


For those of you who don't get subtlety here is my point. All the non-essential driving done by all Americans who own cars for a whole year would not keep the transportation "system" including trucks, trains, airplanes and ships running for a day.

Someone has done the environmental cause a gigantic disservice in misdirecting your focus to the Hummers and Navigators. They are a drop in the bucket. Hell, I'd bet that more petroleum is burned just transporting crude to refineries than is consumed by all the SUVs on earth.

So, want to cut oil consumption. Grow your own vegetables. Don't heat your house above forty degrees, don't cool it below a hundred. Stop buying manufactured goods altogether. That will cut oil consumption to a merely-slightly-unacceptable level.

It will also collapse the economy of YOUR country, not just the USA but we will take that up when it happens.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1523 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Well, there's the blinding flash of the obvious . . . but . . . here you go . . . fellow Cartel Members.

Cartel : A combination of independent business organizations formed to regulate production, pricing, and marketing of goods by the members.

Do you have any evidence that they regulate production and pricing among themselves? You called them cartels, so please back that up.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

My evidence is strictly subjective - go get tooooo wrapped aroud the exle here CFalk . . . take a deep breath and relax a bit. . . .

When I see 60000 barrels of oil an hour heading south through the trans-Alaska Pipeline, and see how much $$$ is literally crapped away every day by just the oil companies in Alaska, I can call  redflag .

If you don't think the oil companies are manipulating the oil market - along with OPEC - and have manipulted it for years . . . and failed to introduce any sort of alternative fuel enmass, then you're wearing blinders . . .


User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Slam Click is on the money here. The average 18-wheeler gets 6-6.5 mpg and operates an average of 550 miles/day.

Before the tree huggers start jumping up and down saying trucks need to get better fuel mileage let me just say that for obvious reasons the trucking industry tries to squeeze out every last MPG it can get. Another recent "environmentally friendly" move was to force heavy diesel engines to cut back emissions. These new emissions controls (in place since late '02) have resulted in average fuel economy declines of 5-12%


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 5):
I own a 1999 Chevy Blazer 4X4, Sure I get 15 mpg in the city but it's no worse then say a 1990 5.0 Mustang?

See, I would say that this isn't really part of the problem, even though a Blazer is considered an SUV. Its a smaller one with GOOD mileage. I'm takling more about the soccer moms who drive Hummers and Ford Excursions, when you know good and well that they can barely drive a bicycle around. All these vehicles are needless comforts that guzzle the gas.

But no, I'd say your Blazer is actually pretty good! I didn't know it was that good! Perhaps I'll remember that whenever kids come around.  Big grin

Quoting Doona (Reply 10):
Supply and demand. The world's oil is running out. And the oil companies know it.

The problem is that the world's oil isn't really running out yet. The amount isn't the same as it use to be, but back then we also chugged the gas in huge amounts. Now, we're using better technology to help curb the consumption rates. But, scientists have said for years that the current oil supply would last the current consumption rate for another 100 years without any problems. I just think the hikes in price come from companies who mark it up knowing that we'll pay, idiots who keep buying massive vehicles and filling up 50 gal. drums in the back every time, and no real regulation to stop it.

Yes, 18-wheelers consume a ton, but its diesel fuel that's not nearly as refined. Trains consume diesel as well, but the cost per gallon used and amount of load transferred per gallon is much higher than any passenger vehicle. Plus, while we have a LOT of trains in our country, we don't have enough to warrant an entire shift of the gasoline industry. Tankers and freighter vessels use quite a bit, I will admit. Especially the older ones with the heavy diesels that don't have upgrades yet. But, the same thing with the trains...the cost is much cheaper to move the freight their moving as opposed to passenger vehicles. But hey, at least our Navy is nuclear.  Big grin

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14):
For those of you who don't get subtlety here is my point. All the non-essential driving done by all Americans who own cars for a whole year would not keep the transportation "system" including trucks, trains, airplanes and ships running for a day.

Actually, yeah, I think it would equal the amount they use within several months. You'd be surprised how much gas we consume a day in passenger vehicles. Not to mention the extreme amount of refining that's necessary to produce that gas at the level its required to be produced at. The cost we consume in our vehicles is far more a year than everything else combined, primarily because of massive amounts of hoarding and the expensive refining process.



Crye me a river
User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1492 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
Do you have any evidence that they regulate production and pricing among themselves? You called them cartels, so please back that up.

How about the fully disclosed public filings with the SEC showing Exxom Mobil and others making RECORD profits the last 2 years while prices have been going up.

If there was really a "shortage" of oil, the oil companies refining gasoline would have worse profit. Think about it.

"Exxon Mobil said Thursday its first-quarter profit jumped 44 percent from a year ago to 7.86 billion dollars as surging crude prices and other factors lifted income.

The world's biggest oil and gas company said exploration and production and refining and marketing improved, and chemicals income set a record.

The profit amounted to 1.22 dollars per share, but excluding one-time gains, it was 1.15 dollars, below the average Wall Street forecast.

Revenues for the January-March period jumped 22.4 percent from the same period in 2004, to 82.05 billion dollars. "


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 18):
I just think the hikes in price come from companies who mark it up knowing that we'll pay, idiots who keep buying massive vehicles and filling up 50 gal. drums in the back every time, and no real regulation to stop it.

Now you know as well as I do that the real reason we pay the prices we do is because of a bunch of Winnebago-driving yahoos suckling at the breast of the Alaska Fund.  Wink



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1453 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
Now you know as well as I do that the real reason we pay the prices we do is because of a bunch of Winnebago-driving yahoos suckling at the breast of the Alaska Fund.

Yeah, those bastards . . . I haven't drawn one of those checks in three years - it's a pain in the ass, and it all goes away to Uncle Sam eventually anyway . . . . .

But these other Winnebago drivin' Yahoos . . well, by God . . . here's to them!  biggrin  wink 


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1436 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 19):
If there was really a "shortage" of oil, the oil companies refining gasoline would have worse profit. Think about it.



Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 18):
I just think the hikes in price come from companies who mark it up knowing that we'll pay, idiots who keep buying massive vehicles and filling up 50 gal. drums in the back every time, and no real regulation to stop it.

The markup on gasoline in the wholesale market has been stable for the past several years - around $30 to $33 per barrel, or $0.60 per gallon. The markup is NOT where they are making money.

Where the oil companies are making money is the fact that they buy nearly all their oil needs on the futures market. The gasoline you buy today might have been bought last year for $45 per barrel. That's not price gouging, that is hedging. Had oil prices dropped instead of gone up, they would have lost money by the billions.

Much of this year, oil has been over $60 per barrel, and oil companies are buying futures for deliver in 2006. Some people are now saying that Katrina and the recent oil shock will trigger a slowdown in the world economy, and oil will stabilize around $50 to $55 next year. If that happens, you will see the big oil companies losing much or all of the big profits they made this year.

The profits are hedging profits. Not markup. Even if they sold the oil at replacement cost and did not charge any profit margin for costs of refinement and distribution, they would still be making this profit.

Charles


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13608 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1428 times:
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Quoting Cfalk (Reply 22):
The markup on gasoline in the wholesale market has been stable for the past several years - around $30 to $33 per barrel, or $0.60 per gallon. The markup is NOT where they are making money.

Where the oil companies are making money is the fact that they buy nearly all their oil needs on the futures market. The gasoline you buy today might have been bought last year for $45 per barrel. That's not price gouging, that is hedging. Had oil prices dropped instead of gone up, they would have lost money by the billions.

Much of this year, oil has been over $60 per barrel, and oil companies are buying futures for deliver in 2006. Some people are now saying that Katrina and the recent oil shock will trigger a slowdown in the world economy, and oil will stabilize around $50 to $55 next year. If that happens, you will see the big oil companies losing much or all of the big profits they made this year.

The profits are hedging profits. Not markup. Even if they sold the oil at replacement cost and did not charge any profit margin for costs of refinement and distribution, they would still be making this profit.

This should be on the a.net "required reading list" for those who are concerned about "greedy oil companies," IMHO. Most people don't think about the fact that oil is purchased in forward contracts and so forth.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1423 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 22):

Where the oil companies are making money is the fact that they buy nearly all their oil needs on the futures market.

Man, I don't even know where to start on this one. Maybe ask if you've ever owned an oil well? I have, and nearly always received spot market prices. However, it was a independent well in the North Moore area of Texas that was part of a partnership I sold off a few years back, not a corporate well.

Now, why do you think the Chinese wanted to buy Unocal? Oil reserves, m'dear, oil reserves. That's not trading on the futures market. Far from it.



International Homo of Mystery
25 Post contains images Boeing Nut : There you go. It's all about the shareholders. When I become supreme leader, that's the first thing that goes........
26 Post contains images EZEIZA : In Argentina, 1 lt. = 1.89 ARS (0.65 c) Therefore, 1 gallon is Approx. 2.6 US $ Comparing to average income here, these are very expensive prices, but
27 Seb146 : But we also don't have the infrastructure you have in Europe. Amtrak and Greyhound are both cutting services forcing people that live in the country
28 Cfalk : My family also owned wells in Texas, and also generally got spot price. But we are talking about HUGE volumes here - a single spot contract being eno
29 Cfalk : So I suppose you are for nationalization/communism? I have a hint for you. It don't work. Think of how the government (of all levels) screwed up the
30 AeroWesty : I will not argue the point that oil companies buy crude on the futures market (if they didn't, there'd be no real reason to have such a market), but
31 MD11Engineer : Guys, while SUVs and cars might be the most visible consumers of petroleum products, the biggest amount is used in the northern hemisphere for heating
32 Cfalk : I am now working on the design for my new house that will be built next year. It will be heated by a heat pump for ground heat, 24 solar panels in th
33 AeroWesty : Bingo! One of the reasons why I retired at age 46.
34 GuitrThree : Not to get off the subject, but I bought a couple of gallons today to put into my riding mower... when I transferred it to the mower from the can, I n
35 LGW : Hi all, "Across the country, gasoline prices soared into uncharted territory - above $3 per gallon last weekend - stunning motorists and prompting man
36 Cfalk : Excellent!
37 DLKAPA : Sorry but some of us actually need our larger-sized vehicles (Mine not technically an SUV, actually I drive a pickup, but still...).
38 Cfalk : Unless you are filling it up every day or two, or are going offroad every day or two, I suggest you buy a more reasonable car and rent a U-Haul when
39 SATX : I have yet to meet a single environmentalist who thinks SUV's are the entire problem. Your ignorant and condescending tone would lead me to believe t
40 We're Nuts : Hey Cfalk, can you E-Mail me next week's winning lotto numbers?
41 Doona : Of course it's running out. There is a finite amount of oil in the world, and someday, it will be gone. Ergo, it's running out. Sure, there's still a
42 Usnseallt82 : Perhaps I should have been more clear. No shit the crude is running out, but its not to the level yet to warrant a panic. That's the difference. We'v
43 Falcon84 : Not exactly a fair comparison, is it? Comparing a 6 year old car to a 15 year old one. Compare that with a '05 that gets great gas mileage, and you l
44 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Exactly.
45 Checkraiser : Time to hop off the soap box dude. Slam doesn't say to do nothing. I think what he's pointing to is that the environmental crusade leads the public t
46 Cfalk : That may be true, but private use in cars is much less efficient. A modern fossil fuel plant might be able to utilize 80% or so of the BTUs in its fu
47 ACDC8 : For a fairer comparison. My 2000 Mustang GT burns about 18-19 MPG (city). Gas prices will not be going down for a very long time. In Canada, I doubt
48 Dc10guy : That's why Dubya is unable to wipe the grin off his face ....
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