Ibhayi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2439 times:
With Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe today quite rightly saying the IMF did nothing for us, which is true.
Should aid to tyranical regimes be stopped and used as a weapon to help remove dictators from their power even if it is only untill the next one comes, but during that break hope does shine.
Mugabe uses the aid given to him as a political weapon to gain support and that does feed many people in his country and in the host of other African countries that are with out food.
However the question needing to be asked, if the west didnt give any aid what so ever, more peopel would be starving, more people would be unhappy with the regime and more people would be mobilised to unite and fight against the regime, where as before they were bought off with food and rashions they now have nothing, and those given small amounts previously will now be given nothing and desperate for a change in the ruling system. Could it mean that a greater resistance would emerge?
MNeo From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2406 times:
Quoting Ibhayi (Thread starter): more peopel would be starving, more people would be unhappy with the regime and more people would be mobilised to unite and fight against the regime, where as before they were bought off with food and rashions they now have nothing, and those given small amounts previously will now be given nothing and desperate for a change in the ruling system. Could it mean that a greater resistance would emerge?
While this is true, a dictator always keeps his army happy. The army will alomost never turn on the leader. This is where the problem comes in. The resistance must gather enough strenth before the leader realizes what they are up to, and even then there is still a chance of a civil war.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2405 times:
Quoting GREATANSETT (Reply 1): The UN should create a governing body to ensure the aid reaches the people
The UN to excercise judgement and honesty?!? Good luck... Look how wonderfully it worked out with Iraqi Oil-for-Food.
Keeping aid away from dictatorial regimes means that someone will have to make a subjective call as to what is a dictatorial rigime and which is not, leaving a door open for questionable decisions with possibly terrible results.
My recommendation would be to avoid the UN altogether, and funnel all aid through the respectable organizations like the Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders, and all investment and financial aid would be strictly bilateral. The UN is simply too corrupt and inefficient.
MidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2369 times:
Quoting Ibhayi (Thread starter): With Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe today quite rightly saying the IMF did nothing for us, which is true.
Actually, I wonder what Robert Mugabe wants the IMF to do?
Quoting Ibhayi (Thread starter): Should aid to tyranical regimes be stopped and used as a weapon to help remove dictators from their power even if it is only untill the next one comes, but during that break hope does shine.
If aid is given to a country, do you give aid to a country with a corrupt leader or not? If not, how do you get aid to the people, without creating an international crisis?
Mrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2336 times:
Trying to provide some food for thought to the thread question:
You will be surprised, but I - part of a developing country - say: YES, stop it. It creates too much dependence and is mostly connected to many other interests. On the other side, the West (and this BS Bretton Woods system) should also let the countries develop some market potential "in peace", i.e. it should not try to capture the markets before an own industry has been created - I also mean political non-interference, except in extreme cases (very violent civil wars or extreme basic human rights breaches). The key for mutual beneficial relations (in my eyes) lies in trade and alliances, with competition but not competition that leads to extreme over competittion --> i.e a market with some regulation, best many interconnected local market places, that again are global in a construct. And... just having completed some research: The US - in the case of India and many other cases - does REAL DEVELOPMENT aid: namely a huge trade deficit --> help for the developing countries to build own enterprises and sustain themselves in the future. Economic cooperation with "some altruism" (trade deficit) is better than any short-term of "too structural" development aid
This is a very general statement/observation and not overall valid in all cases, but should rather provide as some "guiding basis" for the justified question of the thread
Iakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3316 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2325 times:
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6): The UN to excercise judgement and honesty?!? Good luck... Look how wonderfully it worked out with Iraqi Oil-for-Food.
Well, since Volker's report came out it seems the fireworks have been cancelled.
Unless Cfalk, in all objectivity of course, will give us a shortlist of all UN bodies involved and the squadrons of UN staff which will undergo investigation and should rightly have been suspended.
How many fingers will be needed to count them all ?
Perhaps we could count in unison.....one Cypriot, one Russian, another Russian, anybody else .........?
After the UN, France, Germany, it seems that the bucket of scapegoats is pretty well empty, isn't it ?
...they served their purpose, now it's time to prepare for elections, just 5 more GOP Senators and you know what ?
Psa53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3102 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2320 times:
The USA,Yes.Stop ALL aid to foreign interests,
unless it's a hot spot or area in need.
Shut down some bases.Shut down some
embassy's.Instead,have for an example, a
or Asian Embassy's.
Let's fix our problems at home first,
balance the books and lower our taxes.
Ibhayi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2184 times:
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 9): If aid is given to a country, do you give aid to a country with a corrupt leader or not? If not, how do you get aid to the people, without creating an international crisis?
Who determines who is a corrupt leader or not?
its quite obvious that bob and de santos amongst others are dictators and should be removed from power.
Mugabe announced this morning, that white businesses may/will be seized what a cunt. All Mbeki does it sit there with the idea that they must realise them selves its wrogn and pick them selves up and not let the west do it. Well Thabo im about to die of asphixiation cause I have been holding my breath now for years. Your supposed comrades in arms, wernt the Zanu-PF they were Mugabe's opposition party.
Egypt unfortunately at present still is a "Third-World-Country". Israel with 5 mio inhabitants gets as much help from the USA as Egypt with 70 mio inhabitants and that means 10 times more per person. The aim in Egypt is to become independent of aid in the longer term, but at present, US-American wheat virtually is THE breakfast for millions and the financial assistance allows Egypt to improve social services, to modernize agriculture and to build up industry, so that the Egyptian leadership has no alternative than to beg for help, and to bow to whatever demands.
Iakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3316 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2157 times:
Thanks for doing the homework Cfalk. I am afraid your teacher will rate it very badly though...
Let's see: the corrupt UN, the oil-for-food scandal, Annan tainted by his son, etc...
A little bit further down the line and the 1,035 pages of Volker's very best efforts, the US media is too shy to conclude.....that they blew it big and high.
Re Kojo Annan, the despicable son of the oh so well-known corrupt Kofi. Investigators said additional evidence supplied by Kojo Annan established that he assisted Cotecna in its effort to win the contract, contrary to earlier denials. But the report said it appears Cotecna won the contract because it was the low bidder. "It is not known whether Kojo Annan's efforts made a difference," it said.
Kojo Annan said in a statement issued by his London lawyers that he never attempted to influence the awarding of the contract.
The committee said he used his father's "name and position" in 1998 to buy and deliver a car at a reduced price. It said he asked beforehand whether he could buy the car in his father's name, but there was no evidence to show the secretary-general ever agreed.
Kojo Annan called the car discount a youthful "indiscretion" that he regrets.
We are down to a car discount....7 years back, isn't it ?.
Re: the corrupt UN The result was no one seemed clearly in command. Delays in or evasion of decision-making was chronic," he said. The United Nations "was not up to the extraordinary challenge" presented by the huge and complex program.
"Sadly those weaknesses were aggravated by unethical and corrupt behavior at key points," he said, such as the head of the Iraq Program, Benon Sevan, who has been accused of taking bribes from Iraq, and the purchasing department, where one official already has been indicted for soliciting bribes.
Please note the very nice touch in the careful selection of words (bolds).
Superb exercise of diplomatic crap for US domestic purposes, emphasizing on the symptoms of the fatal epidemic...and ending with a note that the virus was detected in.... two patients.
So Cfalk, I did provide more oil for the fire than you could so far, at least I mentioned three culprits and I will go so far as to assume there might be a fourth, perhaps even a fifth.
Now, I am asking, where is the huge scandal taking place inside the UN ?
Is there one honest person remaining in the great country that could read the report and come all by himself to the astonishing conclusion that a lot of steam was created to leave two, three, four tiny drops on the table ?
Can we safely conclude that the oil-for-food program left the door open for corrupt companies (including US of course) and Saddam to play a game on their own rules and pocketing huge amounts of banknotes ?
Shall we go after the culprits....but, who would go after them by the way ?
George Bush and Associates, Oilers at Law, have remarkably succeeded in convincing all of the media and half of the flock (even more in the early days of 2003) that the UN was an obstacle to a perfectly justified aim, but an obstacle unworthy of concern, rotten as it was.
Great idea for a PhD thesis in Political Science.
: Removed from power? Who? United Nations? Next part, who do you put in power? How long do you monitor the situation?
: The problem with the IMF and World Bank are that they force said countries to Americanize themselves. Basically they won't give you money unless you o
: Israel??? I didn't know Israel was a 3rd world country
: It does not help when you have a corrupt leader in power, isn't that where the problem really starts with??
: Which further begs the question; why are we sending them money? What ever happened to fiscal conservatism? This is a problem both parties (Democrats
: Which further begs the question; why are we sending them money? To be fair, most, if not all, of the aid is spent on the United States. From a fact sh