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Why Are USA So Afraid Of Socialism?  
User currently offlineBofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

UK have a socialist government, same with France, Germany, Sweden and from today also Norway. + many other European states. And none of them is anything like China, North Korea or the former USSR or DDR?

So??????????????????????????????

131 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3029 times:

Corporate America certainly isn’t afraid of socialism as long as they are on the receiving end.


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Because I'm not going to work my ass off to pay for someone elses laziness.

Socialism breeds dependence. America is about independence, although many in here are confused on that issue...

[Edited 2005-09-13 18:42:57]

User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

It goes against everything the United States is built on. Although the United States and Europe have tons in common, there are some very distinct American values when it comes to work ethic, etc.

User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 48
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

Same can be said of individuals. It's easy to be altruistic as long as you are spending someone elses money.

The bottom line is plain old fashioned work ethic and self respect: Why should I have to get up every morning and spend my 8 or 10 hours a day only to have a third, half, or all of my hard earned dollars doled out to someone else?

And finally, America did not get to be the economic powerhouse that it is by subscribing to "something for everyone". As an example, where is the incentive to better oneself or work harder if everyone is going toi "get the same"? I'll just push a broom and empty trash cans. Why bother trying to earn a degree or that promotion? I'm just going to lose that money anyway.

Many of us just don't like the idea of working to support a total stranger. And we sure as hell don't need the government telling us how to spend our money. Many people are charitable and give accordingly. Let US decide who gets what and how much.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2992 times:

Because it says "in god we trust" on the US money, socialism has been linked in the past with atheist....

User currently offlineIadbgo From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2982 times:

Americans are against it because you call it socialism. If you want Americans to like it, don't call it socialism. If most Americans read about Sweeden, UK, Norway etc they would see that those nations are not Socialist nations...they are social democracies. Comments like,

Quote:
Because I'm not going to work my ass off to pay for someone elses laziness.

show how little Americans understand about the system. My wife is in Norway now and I have studied the system for the last six years. It has its perks, it has its problems...it isn't everyone's cup of tea. In America we are ok if people don't have insurance, in most of Europe they think that is terrible. In Europe they don't mind paying higher (this is really only slightly higher) taxes because they feel that everyone should have health insurance. (obviously health insurance is only one issue here but it is one that is bashed the most in America) But this is going to become a circular argument very quickly

IADBGO


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Iadbgo:
Well said!

Tobacco farmers don't seem to have a problem with socialism.
Here we call it subsidies. It's all about symantics.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineTPASXM787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

I don't like socialism becuase it involves too much government. Remember, the first rule is, anything that the government touches becomes a huge bloated money pit. Take universal healthcare here in the states. Can you imagine turning this into a government agency? Talk about a recipe for disaster. Huge taxes and bloated government...just what we need.

I don't like a big government. I think it's big enough already and has enough problems. In my city they can't even build a bridge right, and I am to trust them to provide social services? (I know the city wouldn't but just another example of bad gov't). I don't need the gov't telling me what to do more than they already do.



This is the Last Stop.
User currently offlineIADBGO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Quote:
Take universal healthcare here in the states. Can you imagine turning this into a government agency? Talk about a recipe for disaster. Huge taxes and bloated government...just what we need.

I don't agree or disagree with this but there are nations out there with universal healthcare that is not a bloated system. Besides, this is the US if anyone is going to provide inovative care it is going to be us. The last election is a good example of how "socialism" scares America. Kerry said, "You go to your doctor and the government pays your bill". (I know not quite that simple) The moment those words escaped his mouth conservatives blew a fuse. The real problem in America with socialism is the perception that it causes stagnation. Americans don't think of social programs as dynamic...partly because we have social security around our necks. But that isn't a reason not to inovate and create new, well designed programs.
Taxes don't have to be higher...and the point about ag subsidies is well said...Americans are more than willing to take a subside but hate to pay for it.


IADBGO

edit spelling

[Edited 2005-09-13 19:07:33]

[Edited 2005-09-13 19:09:04]

User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

The one thing I like about democracies with social programs is health insurance -- even safety nets. I heard stories this week about how Katrina evacuees are stuck because they don't have a job and many don't qualify for Medicare/Medicaid. Who foots the bill for those? All of us.

I argue that the cost of a health insurance program, even a safety net, is not as bad as many make it out to be. Think of the hidden costs we pay for anyway -- lost employee productivity time due to illness not covered by insurance, the costs hospitals bear from patients that can't pay because they don't have insurance, the cost to corporations to buy insurance for their employees, the cost of prescription drugs, etc.

Norway, Canada, New Zealand, etc., -- all with some measure of social programs -- are rated consistently as the best places to live in the world.



Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Quoting Iadbgo (Reply 6):
show how little Americans understand about the system. My wife is in Norway now and I have studied the system for the last six years. It has its perks, it has its problems...it isn't everyone's cup of tea. In America we are ok if people don't have insurance, in most of Europe they think that is terrible. In Europe they don't mind paying higher (this is really only slightly higher) taxes because they feel that everyone should have health insurance. (obviously health insurance is only one issue here but it is one that is bashed the most in America) But this is going to become a circular argument very quickly

And comments like this show that in all your studying of Europe you have little understanding of our own American System.

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 10):
I heard stories this week about how Katrina evacuees are stuck because they don't have a job and many don't qualify for Medicare/Medicaid. Who foots the bill for those? All of us.

Now put that in a context of a devistated Europe after WWII and you understand why there are socialistic democracies in Europe. They could only depend on their governement after the war. There was little left.

[Edited 2005-09-13 19:14:18]

User currently offlineIADBGO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2916 times:

Quote:
And comments like this show that in all your studying of Europe you have little understanding of our own American System.

I'll make sure to go home and burn my Bachelors and Masters Degrees in American Government tonight after I leave my job in the US Capitol Building.

Could you make an arguement against what I say instead of calling me an idiot?


IADBGO


User currently offlineTriStarEnvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2900 times:

If you could raise a generation of children in a pure socialist environment, then a socialist state might work, somewhere. If I'd never had the pleasure of, say, owning a Lincoln, watching a big screen TV, or living in an expensive home, then I'd have no trouble joining the rest of the worker bees driving the same car, living in the same house, and watching the same TV, as everyone else.

Trouble is, most everyone has had a taste of the good old fashioned capitalism pie, and even though one may not get as big a slice as someone else, we all want more.



If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4980 posts, RR: 44
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 11):
And comments like this show that in all your studying of Europe you have little understanding of our own American System.

Wow, what a well thought-out response. No doubt you're going to elaborate on that...

It seems that Americans identify socialism with North Korea and the likes. I agree that it's just the name that scares them, together with some simplified idea of what modern Western-European socialism is about.

Healthcare is a beautiful example of a social program that is beneficial to everyone in the society. To take my country as an example: we get all the healthcare you (the ones who have health insurance that is) get in the US, but everyone gets it and we pay far less for it. Yes indeed, we pay LESS for healthcare than you do.


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2885 times:

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 12):
I'll make sure to go home and burn my Bachelors and Masters Degrees in American Government tonight after I leave my job in the US Capitol Building.

Could you make an arguement against what I say instead of calling me an idiot?

All that education and you somehow came up me calling you an idiot? Maybe you didn't learn much or your just a jaded oversensative liberal. Either way, you and the rest of your party don't get it.


User currently offlineIADBGO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Quote:
If you could raise a generation of children in a pure socialist environment, then a socialist state might work, somewhere. If I'd never had the pleasure of, say, owning a Lincoln, watching a big screen TV, or living in an expensive home, then I'd have no trouble joining the rest of the worker bees driving the same car, living in the same house, and watching the same TV, as everyone else.

While I agree with you that the only way to have a socialist society is to start one from the beginning. The rest of what you say shows you have never been to one of these countries. If you went to say Norway or Sweden you would see that everything you say they don't have...infact they have an abundance of. You see as many BMW's in Norway as you do in Washington DC. Houses are not the slums that you seem to think they are. Get out of your hole and see the world before you condemn it


User currently offlineIADBGO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

Quote:
All that education and you somehow came up me calling you an idiot? Maybe you didn't learn much or your just a jaded oversensative liberal. Either way, you and the rest of your party don't get it.

1. I work for a Republican and vote Republican
2. You told me I didn't learn anything in all that time, no you didn't call me an idiot and I apoligize for my presumption.


IADBGO

[Edited 2005-09-13 19:32:49]

User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2867 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 14):
It seems that Americans identify socialism with North Korea and the likes. I agree that it's just the name that scares them, together with some simplified idea of what modern Western-European socialism is about.

No, we clearly identify it with Europe. We're pretty damn clear on that.


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 48
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2867 times:

It is indeed a fascinating country we live in. I see the costs not-so-easily quantified in dollars and cents vís-a-vís having an overall healthy society (better work productivity and the like). Indeed, I would support such a program-if it could somehow be ran without all of the bricks of bloated big Government attached to it and at less cost to all of us. Indeed, I would love to see some kind of proposal to see how it could be done.

but therein lies the problem.

The other side of the coin is that Americans are some of the most self centered selfish arrogant people on the face of the planet. C'mon...let's be honest. We are.

For that reason, there are those among us (perhaps even to some degree I myself am guilty of this) who would rather pay twice the cost we otherwise might for healthcare rather than give a "free ride" for someone else.

Just out of spite.

That said, however, there should still be some restrictions in place....like absolutely, positively giving NOTHING to illegal aliens and their children.

If it becomes a matter of Public Safety, then quarantine them just like we did with the Lepers.

But eliminate that incentive for them to come here. American citizens...lets take care of them.

illegal aliens...I don't give a shit if all they want is an aspirin and a thimble of water. If its funded by taxpayers, don't give it to them. They don't deserve it.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 9):
but there are nations out there with universal healthcare that is not a bloated system.

What nation approximately/comparable to the population of the US has universal healthcare that is not bloated?


User currently offlineTriStarEnvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 16):
Get out of your hole and see the world before you condemn it

Funny, I have, and I didn't think I was condemning anyone.....



If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2848 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 19):
The other side of the coin is that Americans are some of the most self centered selfish arrogant people on the face of the planet. C'mon...let's be honest. We are.

F'n A. What do you expect from a people who fled to have the freedom to do as they please without the Government sticking their nose into everything.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 19):
That said, however, there should still be some restrictions in place....like absolutely, positively giving NOTHING to illegal aliens and their children.

Ditto... That's half the problem. The solution is simple. Change the law. You're born here? Fine, you have the nationality of your parents and are not a US citizen. Build maternity wards on the boarder, they have a kid and get sent back. This is one reason we left California. I have no problem with legal immigration or even work permit systems, but when half the hospitals go belly up, bi-lingual education becomes damn near mandatory and you can't even find an english speaking gardner or construction worker, you have a major problem.


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 16):
You see as many BMW's in Norway as you do in Washington DC.

And Hummers in Germany as you do in California.


User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4980 posts, RR: 44
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 17):
All that education and you somehow came up me calling you an idiot? Maybe you didn't learn much or your just a jaded oversensative liberal. Either way, you and the rest of your party don't get it.


1. I work for a Republican and vote Republican

Ouch.. that must really hurt for our friend Boeing7E7... In fact, that's the second time his assumptions have backfired on him like that (there was the whole pathetic 'all the other countries don't want to help us with Katrina' bullcrap a while ago, for which he still hasn't apologised)

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 18):
No, we clearly identify it with Europe. We're pretty damn clear on that.

Well, as is constantly shown by many on these boards, your idea of what socialism is is closer to North Korea than it is to real modern socialism as it exists in Europe.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 19):
The other side of the coin is that Americans are some of the most self centered selfish arrogant people on the face of the planet. C'mon...let's be honest. We are.

You said it, not us. But I agree, from reading posts on this in the past, that that is precisely the main reason why Americans are opposed to universal healthcare. The whole idea of 'there's NO WAY that I am going to pay for someone else's healthcare'. Guess what: you're already doing that, and you're paying far more than under universal healthcare.


25 IADBGO : There are non, I'm not going to lie about that. However, I would say that just because it hasn't been tried doesn't not mean that it won't work. Plus
26 ArniePie : What are you brabbeling about? Living standards in a lot of the Socialists countrys are as high as they are in the US besides that, in general there
27 Boeing7E7 : And won't, especially you're taking me out of context. I spent a week helping people evacuate. What have you done? Strike two. That's more a Communis
28 Post contains images Airbuzz : Boeing7E7 Well, It's difficult to explain to some American friends, that also in democratic-socialist Europe there are refrigerators, luxury cars and
29 Boeing7E7 : Wolf in Sheeps clothing, or a moderate?
30 Bofredrik : To have a general health insurance for the entire population has nothing to do with laziness. And i think that this is the basic... And a part of a s
31 Bofredrik : I think that we work hard here to... But we want to have some basic support in our lives to feel secure and also that we are a country where all citi
32 Scorpio : There was nothing to take out of context: you said no countries had offered help, and you pretty damn snotty and arrogant about it too. Not to mentio
33 Sebolino : So it means that you decided as well as other Americans to spend 200 billions dollars in Iraq ?
34 Bofredrik : quote=Superfly,reply=7]Tobacco farmers don't seem to have a problem with socialism. Here we call it subsidies. It's all about symantics. [/quote] TRUE
35 B744F : It's very simple. People want to pretend they are "better" than everyone else. And in a Capitalistic system, there are winners and losers. The winners
36 TedTAce : Not in the US.
37 Sebolino : In fact it's not true for France, but even a right wing government can't destroy the social system.
38 Superfly : Do I have the freedom to buy medicine from Canada?
39 Post contains images SATX : They have insurance. It's called 'no active hospital can refuse to give life-saving treatment and must absorb the cost if the patient can't pay for i
40 ArniePie : Human nature I guess, looking for a reason why they are so well off while others struggle so hard. Some people are born in privileged conditions (goo
41 B744F : Good luck changing the Constitution Complain about paying for the health and welfare of poor people yet turn a blind eye to corporate welfare like th
42 767Lover : The US has some measure of federal social programs as well. Medicare/Medicaid, Section 8 housing (which is not "the projects" --it's housing in "norm
43 ArniePie : I don't think the quantity of money is the issue in the US, it's the inefficiency on how it is used. It is a well known fact that the EU country's ge
44 767Lover : Okay, let's look at this another way: One of my best friends lived in Amsterdam for 6 years until recently. I visited her on several occasions. 1. Whi
45 ArniePie : Let me stop you right there. Of all places the Netherlands are probably the worst example because they have a notorious lack of decent housing (too m
46 767Lover : Actually, at our "charity" hospital in Atlanta (Grady Memorial) you get some of the best-trained doctors in the country, because they have an affilia
47 767Lover : Odd, since my American friend (not the one in the public housing) had no problem finding and purchasing a flat in AMS. And she had a LOT of trouble s
48 767Lover : I would like to see a source on that.
49 BuckFifty : It all comes down to cultural differences. A socialist system will never work in the States, and neither will American style governence work anywhere
50 ArniePie : Well I guess you are lucky in Atlanta. In all my years in the states (not as a resident but as a service engineer for a Swiss machine building compan
51 767Lover : ArniePie (cutiepie) All I'm saying is that I believe that if you can afford to earn a good wage, you should be able to pay for your own housing and he
52 ArniePie : Exactly how things work in the EU. People that earn enough buy there own house period. Healthcare is funded by those who can and goes to the benefit
53 Scamp : Yeah, I'm kind of tired of working my ass off to pay for a gazillion nuclear weapons and corporate welfare, but what are ya gonna do? I'd rather pay
54 Scamp : yes, but that's just it...LIFE-SAVING treatment...not all health issues are life threatening. additionally, I don't know where you got your informati
55 SlamClick : You can believe in personal freedom. You can believe in human equality. But you cannot believe in both. The only meaningful freedom is to be able rise
56 IADBGO : Congrats....you just told every person who lives in a social democracy that they are just like their neighbor and that they are just like everyone el
57 Turtle : Illegal aliens are LAW BREAKERS. They broke the law by entering the US illegally. For that, many of those protections in the Constitution are forfeit
58 B744F : Immigration laws were only setup by racist lawmakers during certain times of our history. In general, America was created as a country of freedom for
59 B744F : Sorry but this makes no logical sense For what? So you can "pretend" like you are better while everyone else is a dunce? False and extremely bigoted
60 MaverickM11 : The AMERICAN constitution was set up to protect Bolivians? Does the Nigerian constitution protect American citizens?
61 B744F : It was setup to claim all men no matter what citizenship they hold have inalienable rights and these rights should not be abused.
62 L410Turbolet : Of course it does - if they are in Nigeria. Maybe you should do some reading on the concepts of "territoriality of law" and "personality of law".
63 RayChuang : Americans don't like true socialism because everywhere in the world it's been tried has turned into a disaster. You do remember the Stalin era of the
64 Post contains images EA CO AS : But you pay far MORE in taxes than we do in the U.S. - that's where the difference is made up. True to a point, but the main reason private healthcar
65 IADBGO : Neither of these nations were socialist nations. They were quasi-Communist dictatorships. Some European nations are MUCH closer to socialist than eit
66 Post contains images Scorpio : Finally someone jumped on that one. I was hoping for that exact response, EA CO AS... The answer? No. When I said we pay far less for healthcare, I m
67 B744F : Your idea of a socialist state is incorrect, what next? claiming the Nazis tried it as well?? By the way, do you not know the history of capitalism/f
68 EA CO AS : It's not an apples to apples comparison since most healthcare in the U.S. isn't in the form of private insurance paid by the citizens, but by their e
69 B744F : Health care is generally billed to the employee Sure it isnt!
70 Post contains images Scorpio : Again the response I was hoping for. You just walk right into 'em, don't you? Anyway, it doesn't matter if it is privately funded insurance or if you
71 EA CO AS : You're awfully smug today. Where did I "walk into" something, exactly? But here's the big difference, my friend - it's ultimately my VOLUNTARY CHOICE
72 Boeing7E7 : Yes, you did take me out of context. Want a Kleenex?
73 Post contains images Scorpio : In which case you'd have to pay for it for yourself. End result? The same. You'd be paying for it either way, directly or indirectly (through your em
74 L410Turbolet : Mao's and Stalin's bank accounts??? What are you talking about? I think their rule was exactly what communist is like and the attempt of the left-win
75 B744F : They used their power to enrich themselves and their cronies What complete nonsense. You haven't a clue about history nor politics or government and
76 EA CO AS : What if I decided that as a fairly young, fairly healthy person I wanted to go without health coverage entirely and spend the money on other things?
77 ZRH : The answer is easy because socialists always increase taxes and decrease economy. I never have and never ever will vote for a socialist party here in
78 B744F : Decrease the economy for who? Sure you will see a decrease since more people are given the opportunity to make a decent living.
79 ArniePie : Let's test that one with reality: -best economic period in the Netherlands: during the reign of Wim Kok (socialist prime minister) -Best economic per
80 Aa757first : A very small portion of healthcare in the United States is for profit, so I have no idea what you're talking about. There are for-profit hospitals. T
81 ZRH : If I were in another country I perhaps would do the same. But here we have a total different political system than in any other western country. We h
82 ArniePie : We have indeed religious hospitals (CM affiliated =Christian based). They must take care of every person no matter if they can afford it or not. Even
83 Post contains images ArniePie : I worked for 5 years for a swiss company out of Felben (near Frauenfeld) and I know that you have a somewhat unique political system. BTW do they sti
84 ZRH : You mean the "Landsgemeinde". A few years ago five small Cantons still had it. I am not sure, but I think there are only two left. One of the two App
85 Scamp : I don't know that the World Health Organization would agree with you there. WHO ranked France as number one of 191 countries surveyed based on the fo
86 BHMBAGLOCK : Dream on. Generally what I hear are horror stories about delayed treatment. Wrong! What are you smoking today? This statement sums up the fallacy of
87 Scamp : ...and your evidence to back up your trite response is...where?
88 BHMBAGLOCK : Go into the admitting area of any hospital and look on the wall. You'll see a little poster with the info.
89 ArniePie : Well you hear this ,I hear that so it looks like that is going to be a discussion that'll never see an end. As I said in the second part of that stat
90 ArniePie : If they run me over and bring me to a hospital I don't only want the stabilizing treatment. I want the whole treatment thank you.
91 Post contains images Kay : I cut through this thread and will say one comment.. The "client is king" approach of almost everything in the US is actually, and not surprisingly, g
92 ArniePie : What r u talking about? If some service company performs a stunt like that in my house I'll throw them out and get my business somewhere else. You mak
93 L410Turbolet : If you read my post and especially the post I was responding to, you will realize that if anything is serious then it is you problem with reading com
94 ArniePie : First things first, I definitely am no advocate for any form of communism whatsoever, let that be clear. The only reason I (probably unjustly so) mad
95 Kay : ArniePie, I have seen exactly the same in Italy. France, not sure, and for Belgiumm, definitely didn't try. Maybe this is country specific. Kay
96 Toulouse : Excellent post Iadbgo!
97 ArniePie : CP never amounted to anything over here best they ever did was right after WWII when they got 5-10% of the votes , always was considered by some to b
98 Post contains links L410Turbolet : I never implied anything in this regard and I apologize if that was your understanding of my earlier posts. Here's some "wisdom" from wikipedia. They
99 ArniePie : No offense taken on this side and I never implied that you implied......... . Well after reading that piece I have to say that that was about the sam
100 767Lover : How much opportunity is there for a low income person in a socialist country to elevate their standard of living? In the US, so much is made of large
101 BHMBAGLOCK : Other former Soviet puppets have done quite well without a strong partner so I don't accept this statement. In addition, my understanding from busine
102 Post contains images Scamp : No kidding. That's where I got the information. Hospitals, especially those accepting revenue from the state, are required to stabilize a patient. Th
103 Post contains images ArniePie : Yes some of the former eastblock states are doing fairly well, meaning they are doing better than before. The former DDR however had to get up to spe
104 BHMBAGLOCK : The following is what I was responding to .... my point is that private hospitals must also provide stabilizing treatment. btw, it is not at all unco
105 Post contains images ArniePie : I agree up until a certain level. Historically speaken that is true for France but as you know the governement at power (for +/- 10 years now) always
106 Aa757first : The survey obviously is biased towards a socialist system. And think about it. Gordon Bethune was rather poor growing up, and he was the CEO of Conti
107 ArniePie : Why, because you don't like the outcome? Your ultimate believe that getting out of poverty and into the wealthiest circles can only be achieved by an
108 BHMBAGLOCK : Her parents definitely were but she went severely left starting in high school and completely while in college.
109 Aa757first : No. According to an Associated Press article published in 2000: That doesn't mean the French and Italians are the world's healthiest people. Japan ac
110 Scamp : ...and your evidence is where? Touche! yet, again, your evidence is where? show me where people who live in the majority of industrialized nations fl
111 B744F : That is no fallacy. That is simple economics. because for the most part, doctors come to the US because they know they can make the most money here.
112 Donder10 : What I still fail to grasp is how the current UMP government can be viwed as right-wing.Yes,they are to the right of the Socialists but with the like
113 ArniePie : Well, that seems to me a good way for measuring the effectiveness of a health system. How much do you pay for it, how effective is it and is it avail
114 Donder10 : -Best economic period in the UK : Last 5-10 years unde the reign of T. Blair (Labour=socialist prime minister) The main reason the UK economy has been
115 ArniePie : I agree when you say that Labour under TB is not a socialist government like the old style socialist party's (like France and such). But it is a soci
116 BHMBAGLOCK : But the average Cuban has much less access to this expertise than the average indigent US citizen does here. Ironically there is a much larger differ
117 Scamp : etc., etc.,...and my respected user list grows and grows.
118 ArniePie : I was only including Cuba to try to explain that even an underdeveloped country can have good medical technology. I am by no means stating that the C
119 Falcon84 : This thread, by it's very title, plays up the ignorance of the author of said thread in understanding a nation that he constantly critisizes and bemoa
120 Aa757first : You have to ask yourself, why are they poor? Yes, some people do "fall through the cracks" and get themselves into a situation they just can't get ou
121 SKYSERVICE_330 : WOW... and the most ignorant comment of the year goes to.... Do yourself a favor, do some basic research on what communism is and then, if you can do
122 767Lover : I think L410 has a better idea of what communism is than most of us here, being that he actually LIVED it.
123 ArniePie : You know what the sad thing about this answer is? It is the fact that you (13-15yr old kid and son of a doctor) will most likely never know or experi
124 B744F : That takes a lot of balls to say that. yes of course, the typical welfare and foodstamps family who drives a nice car. This myth goes around quicker
125 ArniePie : I was also a bit troubled by his harsh remarks but he is only a young lad and the fact that he is interested in these issues and actually takes the t
126 Post contains images L410Turbolet : My experience was a very limited one, with communism in its terminal stage of falling apart by itself and an experience of a child. I think someone w
127 Boeing Nut : Guess you weren't including the Welfare program then, eh?
128 Scamp : Yes, but, admittedly I haven't read Marx or Engel, but does anything in their philosophies indicate that in order to have communism you must have oppr
129 Srbmod : The US has experimented with a form of socialism on serveral occassions during the 20th Century. FDR's New Deal programs and agencies, and LBJ's Great
130 BHMBAGLOCK : First, it's not a myth, I've seen it in person too many times to count. Second, AA757 said nothing about welfare; he was speaking specifically of peo
131 B744F : Do tell how these families get away with it, since welfare is not a for life program. You did not experience Communism and that book is great towards
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