Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Is General Motors Ashamed Of Its Heritage?  
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

Why is General Motors killing off all of its proud nameplates?

Fleetwood, Deville, Seville, Eldorado, Park Avenue, Roadmaster, Park Avenue, LeSabre, Regal, Century, Skylark, Bonneville, Grand Am, Camero, Firebird Trans Am and of course the Oldsmobile division.

Is there heart not in to it anymore?
Does GM want to get out of the car business altogether?
Does GM expect to woo potential German car buyers with silly names such as SRX, CTS, XLR, HHR, G6, SSR BLX, ABC, 123?


Bring back the Concorde
117 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2629 times:

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Grand Am

It goes in cycles. The Grand Am was always a bastard child looking for its identity anyway. Not the same significance for Pontiac as the Chieftain, Catalina, etc.

I think there'll be a resurgence in the future of classic car names to evoke a "romance of the road" when it works to their advantage. We're seeing that now with Chevy's revival of the Impala in yet another incarnation (but without the triple rear lights, damn them!).



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
We're seeing that now with Chevy's revival of the Impala in yet another incarnation

That already happened in 1994. This new Impala is front wheel drive.
WTF?
Big deal it gets a V8. It's still on a front drive platform.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Because they are finally waking up to the fact that they can't rest on their laurels thinking that past success assures future success. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with stigma. Just look at Oldsmobile...the name alone says it all. "OLD".

Rightly or wrongly you simply cannot successfully market a name like that in a commercial featuring vehicles screaming down a closed road at 110, being driven by a hot couple in their 20's. It just won't work. They even admitted this in the last Olds ad campaign: "This is not your fathers Olds".

Same thing with Cadillac. That line still can't totally shake its image as an old geezer car, even with the revamped lineup and the revised logo, which is a lot less busy and doesn't feature the ducks.

Now as to why they don't want to market to the older crowd, I don't know. Many of those people certainly have money.


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

AeroWesty hit the nail. They will revive those names when it suits. Not to get too political, but the Detroit Three represent everything that is wrong with American Corporate Values and why they still continue to get their asses handed to them by the Japanese:

They still think that "retro" and "REactive" is the way to do business versis innovative and PROactive like the Japanese and Euro carmakers.

I strongly recommend you watch the old movie "Gung Ho" to see what I mean. watch it twice. Once for humor and entertainment. And again to soak in the very clear, dead-on-the-money message it has.


User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

Superfly -

Recall when cars had names like Business Coupe, Club Sedan, Power Wagon, etc?

At least GM keeps the GTO name plate. Not a bad ride, either. Made Down Under and is a true dual.  Wink

Of course, Town Car is a legendary name!


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Big deal it gets a V8. It's still on a front drive platform.

It's interesting the Impala is getting a 5.3L V8. My 80's vintage Camaro had the 5.0L V8, and it wasn't weak sauce in any way shape or form, even with CA emissions on it. The late 90's vintage Bonneville I had came with the reworked 3.8L V6, and for a lumbering boat, it didn't lack for strength.

A little car like the current Impala with that size engine should shoot out of the gate like a little cigarette boat.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineTriStarEnvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

GM is trying to re-invent itself to a market place that is passing them by. Too many trucks, too many products that are done better by somebody else.

Remember when Pontiac went "alphanumeric" in 1982? T-1000, A-6000, J-2000? I think GM's name game is to lure in folks who only think of GM as the builder of cars that look the same, run badly, and are screwed together with great indifference. Face it, if you were a kid in the 80's who got lost in the parking lot looking for mom's Buick Century, that looked like that Olds Ciera, or that Pontiac A-6000....you might not have warm feelings in your heart for GM. Same if you got stuck on the way to prom 'cause dad's Olds 98 Diesel went boom. GM went from the dramatic and stylish full size cars of 71-76, and dumbed them down to the look alikes of '86 thru the ealy 1990's. Somewhat farcical examples, I know, but you get the idea.

Olds probably needed to die. Even the name sounds old fashioned. The division had no direction from the early 90's onward. Were it left to me, I'd have made Olds a "boutique' division that did unique, but low volume cars.

And when GM tried to be different, what did we get? Yes, I drive a classic example of GM trying to reinvent itself. Had the Aztek not had Hanna-Barberra styling, it might have made more sense. Same goes for the Avalanche, and Chevy SSR. Good ideas, but done poorly, or just too expensive. Why didn't GM respond to the Chrysler PT Cruiser, sooner?

Now, if they bring back "Grand Am" it will need to be attached to a car w/the "rubber duckie" nose!

[Edited 2005-09-13 20:55:06]

[Edited 2005-09-13 20:56:11]


If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 3):
Now as to why they don't want to market to the older crowd, I don't know. Many of those people certainly have money.

..and that's the same question I've been asking.
There are PLENTY of older buyers that want a plush, luxurious car with gathered leather seats, woodgrain & chrome instrument panel and column gear-shift. Not every car buyer is looking for a 'young', 'hip' 'sporty' car.
That is what the Camero & Firebird Trans Ams were for.
Oooops, GM killed that line too.

I remembered that stupid; "This is not your fathers Olds" ad.
Hell I love to have an Oldsmobile 442 convertible as well as a Ninety Eight Regency.







I'd love to buy a new car today with this interior!  Cool



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offline777DadandJr From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1516 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 5):
At least GM keeps the GTO name plate. Not a bad ride, either. Made Down Under and is a true dual.

I agree. But I still prefer the real deal. I just look out in my driveway.
This is my effort to keep the GM reputation alive.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/777DadandJr/31205GTO2.jpg

Russ



My glass is neither 1/2 empty nor 1/2 full, rather, the glass itself is twice as big as it should be.
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

GM globally is doing the same.

In Britain, Bedford was a long-established trademark for commercial vehicles. That bit the dust. They have ditched other brands such as Daewoo (although that was well and truly tarnished) in Korea. Their reasoning is that too many brands leads to confusion and lack of a corporate product identity because of it being split over different badges.

Models have also been rationalised with cars now having the same name and design in different countries. SAAB is also not looking too healthy with production gradually being shifted away from Sweden. Holden in Australia are also doing more European designed models. Vauxhall could potentially find itself rebadged as Opel before long.

Funnily enough GM cars are probably some of the best they've ever made at the moment. Certainly in Europe and Mexico.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2576 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
There are PLENTY of older buyers that want a plush, luxurious car with gathered leather seats

Fine Corinthian leather, anyone?  Smile

Quoting 777DadandJr (Reply 9):
I just look out in my driveway.

That is one sweet machine. You go.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 5):
At least GM keeps the GTO name plate.

Which they stole (mostly) from Ferrari. Probably not one GTO owner or one General Motors employee in a hundred knew what it stood for. By the way, the Pontiac might have been called GT if you set really low standards, but it was not O.

http://www.web-cars.com/wallpaper/ferrari_gto_1_1280.html



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineTriStarEnvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 10):
Funnily enough GM cars are probably some of the best they've ever made at the moment. Certainly in Europe and Mexico.

Very interesting to look at the Pontiac website at GM.com. Look at what's being sold in Mexico, and Canada. What the heck is a Pontiac G4?!?!? Or Pontiac Pursuit?

Pontiac of Mexico is selling a slick version of the Daewoo Matiz.

Hey, Superfly, that '68 98 is sweet. I had a '67, but it was a true four door hardtop....

[Edited 2005-09-13 21:04:24]


If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

I've been thinking the past couple of years how strange it is that Cadillac is into racing in a big way, but they still don't have a car that cashes in on that appeal. Why roadrace when you are just selling to grandpa?


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Hell I love to have an Oldsmobile 442 convertible

I'm searching for a 70-72 Rocket 350 - I do not want the 442 (or any 455 tho there is no replacement for displacement)  Wink

Quoting 777DadandJr (Reply 9):
I just look out in my driveway.

Nice Goat!  hearts 


Any comments on the new Chevy HHR? (a copy of the PT Cruiser)


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
A little car like the current Impala with that size engine should shoot out of the gate like a little cigarette boat.

...and exterior styling is as boring as boring gets. Same for the current GTO.

Quoting TriStarEnvy (Reply 7):
Face it, if you were a kid in the 80's who got lost in the parking lot looking for mom's Buick Century, that looked like that Olds Ciera, or that Pontiac A-6000..

It's the same think today with all the 'bubble' cars on the market.
Give a H-body Ninety Eight Regency or Electra Park Avenue Limited anyday over the new bland bubble on the market today.

TristarEnvy, you also forgot to include the T-1000 in your list.
The gentleman's Chevette.  Wink



Keep in mind, the LeSabre and Park Avenue were great seller before they were killed.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMrChips From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):

A little car like the current Impala with that size engine should shoot out of the gate like a little cigarette boat

If you can overcome the massive torque steer, that is.

As for what GM's problem is, well, let's just say that GM could use a complete tear-down and restoration.

To start with, they have way too many models overall...so many, in fact, that many of them compete against each other. For example, the Chevy Cobalt and the Saturn Ion...and these are just the North American based models. Unfortunately for the sentimental types in the crowd, part of the solution to this problem is to kill off marques and nameplates.

Second problem is that GM tries to have options for everyone, and all kinds of trim levels for their cars. Dare I say this, but they need to adapt a business model like that of Honda - there are three or four distinct option packages ranging from bare-bones to fully trimmed out, and anything else after that is a dealer option.

Another problem that GM seems to have is the horribly bland cars that they turn out. Apart from those fantastic Australian cars, a couple Cadillacs and the Corvette, most GM cars are entirely forgettable. The other two manufacturers in the Big Three each have one reasonably priced car that seems to be a "must have" (the new Mustang and the Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger/Magnum), whereas GM does not have anything of the sort. Of course, GM now has a world-beating supercar in the Corvette Z06 (and according to a friend at GM, that's just the start), but that car is out of the realm of the average person.

Finally, GM needs to spend some serious money on powertrain...their V8s are just fine, but they seem to have multitudes of problems with anything smaller. Fortunately, it seems as though they are starting to realise that - the Ecotec inline-4 "world engine" is a huge improvement over the previous generation, but they still have a long ways to go in that department. Also, the new 3.6 L V6 in the G6 (yet another world engine) is apperantly a very good powerplant as well.



Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7534 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Fleetwood, Deville, Seville, Eldorado, Park Avenue, Roadmaster, Park Avenue, LeSabre, Regal, Century, Skylark, Bonneville, Grand Am, Camero, Firebird Trans Am

Bonneville? While I knew that H-body platform was on its way out, I would have thought that the name would have transferred to the platform to whatever platform Buick is using for its new Lucerne. It wouldn't be the first time that the Bonneville name was transferred from one platform to another.

Past examples:

Bonnevilles through '76 utilized the luxury-standard-sized C-body platform that was shared w/DeVille/Fleetwood/Electra 225/Olds 98.

'77-'81: the Bonneville name moved to the downsized (116" wb) B-body platform shared w/Impala/Caprice/Catalina/Delta 88/LeSabre.

'82-'86: the Bonneville name moved to the RWD mid-size G-body (formerly A-body) platform (shared w/Malibu/Monte Carlo/Grand Prix/Cutlass/Century/Regal.

'87-'05: Following the demise of both the B-body Parisienne and the G-body Bonneville, the name moves to the FWD H-body (Delta 88/LeSabre) where it's been since.

Personally, I didn't care for the looks of the '92-current Bonnevilles because they looked like poorly-done BMW clones.

Not to nitpick, but you forgot about the Caprice and Electra (although you mentioned Park Avenue twice).

As far as the issue of GM retiring their veteran nameplates is concerned, mind you that I'm in agreement with you on this one: the reasoning could very well be that most (not all) of today's buyers don't identify with the older names at all unless their talking about their grandparents' cars. Most younger buyers along with their parents have only owned or grown up with either trucks/SUVs and/or import models.

So most of the veteran GM car names mean nothing to them except maybe "Oh, that's the old gas hog my [insert choice older relative here] drives or used to drive."

It's sad but unfortunately true... at least in the minds of GM's marketing department. so it seems.

At least Chevy has kept the Impala, Monte Carlo, & Corvette nameplates although the first two vehicles (restyled for 2006) are shadows of their RWD predecessors.

To my knowledge, Pontiac has kept the Grand Prix & GTO labels alive for 2006; although the current GTO to me is an insult to its '60s & '70s predecessors.

To sum it all up, nameplate loyalty let alone brand loyalty isn't what it once was.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

God damn it Superfly for the last time ever.

CAMARO not Camero.


User currently offlineTriStarEnvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
TristarEnvy, you also forgot to include the T-1000 in your list.
The gentleman's Chevette.

My dad rented one to come to my college graduation in 1985. It was white. that's the best that can be said for it.

Hey, if they had put the Diesel in it, too, like the Chevette! (I'd STILL be driving home form the ceremony in it)

Clatter-clatter-clatter.....



If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8455 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2536 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Fleetwood, Deville, Seville, Eldorado, Park Avenue, Roadmaster, Park Avenue, LeSabre, Regal, Century, Skylark, Bonneville, Grand Am, Camero, Firebird Trans Am and of course the Oldsmobile division.

There isn't one name there I'd be seen dead in.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2529 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
Fine Corinthian leather, anyone?

That was a Chrysler feature.  Smile

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14):
I've been thinking the past couple of years how strange it is that Cadillac is into racing in a big way, but they still don't have a car that cashes in on that appeal. Why roadrace when you are just selling to grandpa?

I agree.
The curret fleet of Cadillacs are decent cars but those should have been in the Oldsmobile line up instead of killing the brand. Cadillac should have an answer to the Town Car, S-Class, Vanden Plas, LS-series and 7-series.
It's as if Cadillac no longer wants to be a luxury brand. They rather market Suburbans with Cadillac emblems to gangsters with gold teeth.

Look at when Chrysler is doing with the 300C and Magnum. They are having lots of success with there tradition American style sedan & wagon.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 18):
To sum it all up, nameplate loyalty let alone brand loyalty isn't what it once was.

You may be right but I don't think GM is that smart of a company to realize that.
The Skylark name lasted for several generations and it's the one from the late 1960s (already over 35 year old name) that that is the most desirable.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Andz:
That's too bad because those are all some fine automobiles.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineTriStarEnvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2523 times:

GM needs an answer to the Magnum. And do it with a....wait for it....clamshell reargate like the 71-76 big wagons.


If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
25 Andz : That may be so but there is more to a name than meets the eye....think of the Nova (doesn't go) or the emmerdeux (MR2).... there is no accounting for
26 PHLBOS : I guess Chevy might be trying to whoo some police department contracts that it lost over the last 10 years with that option. Although, more of them w
27 TriStarEnvy : I think the HHR is a "too little, too late" response to the PT Cruiser. It's not all that impressive in person. I saw one at an Enterprise Rental sto
28 Post contains images FlyingTexan : Gas, Tires, and Oil? No. Gran Turismo Omologato? Do I get the prize? Bawaahaha! I had a friend in high school with a Chitvette Scooter model. With Ma
29 N1120A : Yes, if management actually accepts labor as part of the team, you will be successful and build 15,000 cars in 1 month John Z. DeLorean did.
30 Post contains images Concord977 : Russ - beautiful car! I want a ride in that one. Curt
31 Post contains images 777DadandJr : Thanks Curt! Since you're not too far away, I'd be glad to take you for a spin if you get up this way sometime. Russ
32 Srbmod : Unfortunately, the idea of a retro modern version of a GM classic hasn't really happened. It's great that they brought back the GTO nameplate, problem
33 TUNisia : Maybe if they started to build safe cars, heavy cars, cars that don't look like plastic, and cars that actually feel great to drive then things would
34 Superfly : They have. The Buick Park Avenue, LeSabre Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham were VERY safe, reliable and well build cars. Every consumer report backs that
35 Matt D : C'mon...since when did 95% of consumers buy cars because of the safety features they may or may not have? If your typical car shopper is sold on the c
36 LTBEWR : The 'herritage' is why GM (as well as Ford and Chrysler) have lost their maket share to Honda, Toyota, Nissian and other Japanese co's products. Over
37 Superfly : There are too many fickle-minded shoppers out there.
38 Superfly : Not really. The traditional large American cars have always been reliable. The problem was the small cars that The Big Three introduced was not as re
39 SlamClick : Yes, the "Grand Prix" My wheels back when the GTO was around was a Corvair with the John Fitch handling mods. Underpowered, and no brakes worth menti
40 Aa757first : Anymore, I would say safety is a major factor in buying a car. AAndrew
41 Superfly : No. People 'claim' safety is a major factor in buying a car. They choose the 'feeling' of safety when buying a car. There would have never been a SUV
42 Post contains images 777DadandJr : Especially in a parking lot! I can't tell you how many times I've seen a petite woman driving one of these behemoth's and taking 6 tries to get it in
43 Superfly : It just gets my blood boiling! These people don't even know what to do when they DO take then out to the mountians. If you take I-80 between Sacramen
44 FlyingTexan : Sunday, I went flying around a blind corner in the left lane of a crowded superhighway. I was met by a car standing still. Thank god for the excellen
45 Superfly : Going back to the name identity. Mercedes S-class has always been there top line. Same for 7-series with BMW and Vanden Plas for Jaguar. Those have al
46 Post contains images 777DadandJr : But, Oh, I need four wheel drive so I can pull my mulch trailer into the back yard when I do landscaping in the spring! Amen! Russ
47 Post contains images ACDC8 : Just my opinion, but I think that GM's biggest problem is styling. If you look at todays S-class and 7-series, they are very sporty, elegant cars tha
48 Post contains images 777DadandJr : My best friend, who worked in a body shop for 20 years always said to me: "GM cars, always get old, befroe they get old." That's why I wouldn't buy on
49 Superfly : Agreed. GM bolst about the Corvette but that's a low volume car. Screw the 25 year olds! That was never Buick's target buyer anyway. There are plenty
50 777DadandJr : Which guarantees that it will be the darling of the rental car fleet. Kind of like the only people who buy Monte Carlos ar NASCAR fans! Russ
51 ACDC8 : Let's put it another way. My dad has a 2004 Buick Century, it lacks the styling and appeal that would make me want to buy a Buick when I'm his age. I
52 Superfly : Which begs the question; why waste so much money and resources designing a new car if it's still as boring as it's predecessor? As much as I love car
53 Post contains images 777DadandJr : With all of GM's resources, they still haven't figured out how to make a high quality, richly grained interior plastic. Agreed. My Dad also has an 04
54 777DadandJr : I would have to agree with you on this one. I love auto racing, but not oval. I like Road Racing, and WRC. Now those guys can drive! Russ
55 ACDC8 : Makes three of us. Personally, I love F1, but I've only seen 2 races this season. Mind you, I find that the plastic on a $25,000 Grand Am has a much
56 Post contains images 777DadandJr : Pardon a naive American here, but what is an Allure? Is that the same thing as a Lacrosse? I know that the Lacrosse name was changed because in Frenc
57 Post contains links and images ACDC8 : Good question! I'm not sure myself, here's the link for the Allure... http://gmcanada.com/english/vehicles/2005/buick/allure/
58 777DadandJr : Well, looks like it's the same car. Here's a quote I found from CarGuide Magazine: “No LaCrosse for us please, we’re Canadian.” That was the me
59 Post contains images ACDC8 : Is it the same car? Cool, you learn something new everyday! True, it's a lot better then their recent attempts, but still not my cup of tea. Glad you
60 Post contains images 777DadandJr : Personally, I'm a BMW man. Buick has always been an old man's car, but I see some movement to attracting younger buyer. Now, those looking at a BMW,
61 Post contains images Cptkrell : Why is GM ashamed of its' heritage? Hmmm...maybe they would be more ashamed if it was the Crapo Motors Corporation (you guys DO know that GM was found
62 Post contains links and images Flight152 : Wow, where to begin. I do agree with most of what superfly has said. I think most of GM's problems are rooted in it's lack of identity, generic lookin
63 NWA742 : IMO, these are some steps to begin solving GM's problems: 1. Many of GM's big corporate guys need to be fired and have their heads sawed off. The reas
64 PHLBOS : The Buick Lacrosse/Allure is not the first car to have separate names depending on where it's sold. Up through 1981, Pontiac's Canadian full-sizes we
65 Cornish : And for years GM's European division had seperately named Opel and Vauxhall names for the same cars - Cavalier and Ascona/Vectra, Astra/Kadett, Carlt
66 Post contains images Superfly : I strongly disagree. That is the only division of GM I like until 2006 model year. Buick is the most mature division of GM and knows it's place. Cadi
67 NWA742 : You have a good point. I'd say though, that if GM keeps Buick, they need to be kept to big luxury sedans only. Kill the Rainer, Terraza, and Rendezvo
68 Post contains images Superfly : Agreed! Agreed! You're hired! GM could sieze one huge gap in the auto industry. Buick and Cadillac should introduce a full-sized convertible to the m
69 Post contains links WhiteHatter : Screw that. It's Scalextric for big kids. What you need is this http://www.nuerburgring.de/index.php?id=186&L=1 The Nurburgring! Where the Cadillac C
70 RayChuang : In my opinion, I see GM preparing itself for its biggest makeover ever in the next 3-4 years. Expect GM to be down to three divisions--Chevrolet for f
71 NWA742 : They certainly need it. And SUVs and Trucks. Chevy trucks has been one of GM's best selling points forever. They won't get rid of that. I think GMC s
72 Superfly : RayChuang: You may be right and that's really sad. If GM was serious about resurecting it's various divisons, they could. They have all the resources
73 777DadandJr : Ah, why? See my earlier query below Why does GM need GMC. Every GMC truck is a rebadged Chevy or vice versa. If you want to make GMC's into the luxur
74 Post contains images Superfly : GMC is specificly a truck division. I don't know why Cheverolet makes trucks. Besides, Fords are the best anyway. If you want luxury, buy a Cadillac
75 Post contains images PHLBOS : You forgot about the E-body convertibles (114" wb.) of the early-to-mid 80s. '83-'85 Cadillac Eldorado '83-'85 Oldsmobile Toronado and, of course, on
76 Cptkrell : I think a lot of the (collective) ideas on GM in this thread are spot-on. One must realise, however, that ineptitude breeds mediocrity (or is it in re
77 Post contains images 777DadandJr : I understand that. They may be a truck division, but their products are no different than Chevy's. They are even made on the same lines! Let's take t
78 WhiteHatter : Chevrolet's Mexican plant already builds at least some of those cars, including larger engined Astras. The Meriva was first built by Chevy Mexico bef
79 Superfly : PHLBOS: Those are personal luxury coupes though and rear seating is still rather limited compared to a 1975 Buick LeSabre convertible or 1970 Cadillac
80 PHLBOS : True, however, it is worth noting that the wb. of the never-released Marauder convertible is not quite an inch longer than the '80s E-bodies (114.7"
81 Superfly : More so than the Chrysler K-cars? (LeBaron, 400 & 600) Wasn't the GM E-bodies nothing but chop-shop convertibles 'sanctioned' by GM? The 1987 LeBaron
82 777DadandJr : I thought so too. If I remember they were ASC conversions. Same company that did the Mustang convertibles. From a body shop perspective, "chop-shop"
83 PHLBOS : To my knowledge, they were genuine convertibles... at least the '82/'83-'85 vintages. As a matter of fact IIRC, many owners/collectors of the '76 Eld
84 DucatiRacer : As it regards the question of "why is there a GMC"? My understanding is that, back in "the day," Buick, Caddy and Olds dealers wanted to sell their mo
85 777DadandJr : Just bolsters Cptkrell's post. Letting the cart push the horse. Indeed! Russ
86 777DadandJr : I don't think so. From everything I have ever read, GM "in house" convertible prduction ceased in 76. I believe that those models you refer to were f
87 PHLBOS : Might be, but nonetheless the models were marketed similarly as factory models unlike say a '78 Continental Mark V convertible or a '79 Cadillac DeVi
88 Post contains images RayChuang : Well, that does explain why we see Chevy-badged Merivas in Mexico. GM could probably make the car US-legal (like putting in the 2.0-liter Ecotec engi
89 Superfly : I doubt there hissy-fit lasted long once the report cards came in for those E-body converibles. The 4100 and the gas/diesel conversions were unreliab
90 Post contains images WhiteHatter : They already have the 1.8 litre in the Meriva which is gutsy, but with the design of the front they could have issues shoehorning something bigger in
91 PHLBOS : Although of the three, the Buick Riviera ragtop was the best looking. The lines below the roof bear a strong resemblance to the original '63 Riviera;
92 Post contains images Superfly : I like the finer grille of the 1976 model over the 1975. I am not sure if the 5.0 was availible. I'll have to refer to my roomate that has the brouch
93 Slider : Good point. And given the turnaround of companies like Nissan, who haev hit home runs with every model they've put out lately, loyalty is fleeting an
94 Superfly : Is it really working for them? Look at the risk GM took when they let a crackhead design that Pontiac Aztec. That was a company jeopordizing mistake!
95 PHLBOS : Last night, I thumbed through an old Consumer's Guide Auto '83 I had laying around. Both the Buick Riviera & Olds Toronado came standard with the Bui
96 Superfly : I see a few on the roads still running with the old blue California plates. I had a VW Diesel (the only import I've owned) which as sold in Californi
97 PHLBOS : I was referring in terms of new vehicles and/or after-market gas-diesel conversions not used diesels that were either grandfathered or originally sol
98 Post contains images Slider : Good point! LOL! Makes me wonder why they didn't make that engine more prolific then and put it on more models.... **********************************
99 777DadandJr : Oh, but they did. GM put this engine in many, many different vehicles. The engine debuted, I believe in the 76 Regal, and it went on to become probab
100 PHLBOS : Actually, IIRC that 3.8L (231cid) Buick engine dates back to the early-to-mid '60s as the base engine for the Specials/Skylarks of the time.
101 AvObserver : Good point, Superfly, although I do think GM would have had to alter those famous nameplates for today's market realities. The grand cruisers that bor
102 Superfly : Every line except Cadillac, Saturn & Geo had the 3.8 V6 in there cars. That has to be the best gasoline V6 engine ever made. Sure about that? That's n
103 Post contains images TriStarEnvy : The bitch here, is that we'd happily beat GM for NOT doing something different, and when they DO, it goes so terribly, terribly wrong, and the carpin
104 AvObserver : "That's not the case with the 300C, Magnum, Charger, Mustang, Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Town Car, Impala, Monte Carlo. All of which are nameplate
105 Superfly : Gas V8s today are getting as good of milage as V6s. Won't that hurt V8s from Germany and Japan too? Why is being a senior citizens brand a bad thing?
106 PHLBOS : Truth be told, Ford has been doing the same thing with its Crown Vic. for years. I believe the last Crown Vic. ad I saw on TV was when the restyled '
107 Post contains images Superfly : Those Chrysler Executives had to be the laughing stock of all limos of the 1980s. As far as those K-Cars go, they were gutless and problemsome. My 19
108 Post contains images PHLBOS : Too bad they couldn't have kept the Cordoba/Mirada/Imperial 2-doors around a little longer (beyond '83) and made convertible versions of them. Those
109 Superfly : Agreed! I saw a mint condition 1982 Frank Sinatra Edition Imperial on Saturday. I've got the 3 8track tape set of Frank Sinatra that came with that c
110 Tristarenvy : Let the drooling begin.... Along the slantback theme, there was a georgeous '82 Seville for sale near me a while back. Even though I did not need ano
111 Post contains images Superfly : Anything but an Aztec! Hey I've toyed around with the idea of getting a 'slant back' 1984-1985 Lincoln Continental 'Valentino Edition' with the avail
112 Tristarenvy : Good luck finding one. I only saw ONE diesel Lincoln, ever, and that was a Mark VII. A good looking car, however.
113 Superfly : I saw one once 10 years ago down in L.A. Ever read 'Automobile' magazine? They had a review in there 'cheap wheels' section on those slant back Conti
114 TriStarEnvy : Yes, and there was an article in "collectible Automobile" some years back about the Continental, as well, and they seemed to like the car as a "Cheap
115 PHLBOS : 'Fly, Offhand, I do not have the answer about the heads. I do know that the LSC H.O. 5.0 (302) is the same engine that the Mustangs of the time used.
116 Superfly : PHLBOS: OK. I don't recall seeing any H.O. versions of the 351cu" EFI versions. All of the 351cu" mods that I see are for the early carburated version
117 PHLBOS : On that particular Mustang, I didn't get a chance to look that closely under the hood to verify whether it was an EFI (which was available for the tr
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Is There Such Hatred Of The NY Yankees? posted Thu Oct 9 2003 23:17:43 by 727LOVER
Why Is My Familys Time Of Need Not Affecting Me? posted Sun Sep 22 2002 19:38:53 by Trent_800
Why Is Austria Not Part Of Nato posted Tue Jul 9 2002 07:59:57 by Boeing in pdx
Why Is The Price Of Oil Still So High? posted Fri Jul 7 2006 03:21:44 by MaxQ2351
Why Is Legalization Of Illegal Aliens Wrong? posted Thu Mar 23 2006 11:28:15 by AerospaceFan
Why Is University Of Alabama Crimson Tide? posted Wed Jan 7 2004 03:03:18 by Chi-town
Why Is It Some Of Us Are Doomed To Remain Single? posted Fri Aug 30 2002 20:47:15 by Barcode
Why Is Airliners.net So Slow All Of Sudden? posted Sun Sep 30 2001 03:08:40 by Boeing757fan
Why Is Underage Drinking Tolerated? posted Wed Nov 15 2006 02:50:47 by Cadet57
Why Is It Unfashionable To Be A "Liberal"? posted Sat Nov 11 2006 05:13:59 by Singapore_Air