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Senate Votes No On Independent Katrina Comission  
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1563 times:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050914/...u=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Senate Kills Bid for Katrina Commission

By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer 21 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Senate Republicans on Wednesday scuttled an attempt by Sen.
Hillary Clinton to establish an independent, bipartisan panel patterned after the 9/11 Commission to investigate what went wrong with federal, state and local governments' response to Hurricane Katrina.

The New York Democrat's bid to establish the panel — which would have also made recommendations on how to improve the government's disaster response apparatus — failed to win the two-thirds majority needed to overcome procedural hurdles. Clinton got only 44 votes, all from Democrats and independent Sen. Jim Jeffords of Vermont. Fifty-four Republicans all voted no.

***

Well what do you think? I find it despicable. I think every single Senator, I mean unanimous vote, 100-0 should support this investgation. This would investigate all levels, not just the federal government. Why are the Republicans so opposed to this? Why would an investigation into a national disaster be a partisan issue?

I'm thoroughly dissapointed. And slightly pissed too...


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71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
I find it despicable. I think every single Senator, I mean unanimous vote, 100-0

Agreed!


They just hate Hillary Clinton and don't want more errors at the federal level exposed.



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User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
Well what do you think? I find it despicable. I think every single Senator, I mean unanimous vote, 100-0 should support this investgation

You mean that you want to see an Independent Katrina Comission, there will be an investigation, but, it looks like it will be internal.

An Independent Comission is more costly & takes more time, we need this done in a quick & timely matter, to see where the communication broke down between City/State & Federal...



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User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1552 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
I'm thoroughly dissapointed.

Agreed.

Although I think the Congress and Senate get their panties in a wad over way too many things and stick their noses into crap they need to leave alone this is one case I'd like to see them actually get something done.

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
Why would an investigation into a national disaster be a partisan issue?

No offense TBar, but that's a stupid question. EVERYTHING done in DC these days is a Partisan Effort. When was the last time you saw those nutjobs in DC actually carry out any effort of consequence in a bi-partisan manner? Other than approving the $$$ for Katrina relief - in short order - it simply won't happen.

If they decide the change brands of shit paper in the Congressional Lavatory, there'd be a partisan argument about which brand was softer, and just how many squares should be used for each swipe!


User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1550 times:

MM,

Why vote no on this vote? This vote was for a Bi-Partisan Independent Commission. Tell me why ANY senator should vote against this. Why should anybody care how expensive or how long it takes? I want a thorough investigation/commission, I don't care how long it takes. This can't be done quickly or cheaply.

ANC,

Wrong question. I meant to ask, "Why should a VOTE on an independent comission become a partisan issue?" I will say that I believe that the Democrats made the right vote on this issue, and the Republicans didn't. This shouldn't be a partisan issue, it should be a moral issue.

[Edited 2005-09-14 21:14:13]


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User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1537 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 4):
I will say that I believe that the Democrats made the right vote on this issue, and the Republicans didn't. This shouldn't be a partisan issue, it should be a moral issue.

 checkmark  Agreed . . . 100%


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

Tbar220

Why? The reason why you have an Independent Commission is to see where things went wrong & how to correct them. The problem was isolated to New Orleans, States that have had disasters before, did not experience the numerous problems that took place in New Orleans.

So, if you want it done quickly, keep it internal
If you want some heads, go for the Independent commission..... (An independent commission would probably take over a year)

If Florida, California, & other States all had the same problem, I would be behind an Independent commission.......

I do not want what happened in New Orleans to happen again, watching those people suffer was truly sad, nobody should ever have to suffer like that again, no matter what the reason.......



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User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

More ammunition for the Dem's and Hillary  vomit  in '08

User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 4):
will say that I believe that the Democrats made the right vote on this issue, and the Republicans didn't. This shouldn't be a partisan issue, it should be a moral issue.

Partisan? You're damn right both sides were partisan, 100% of the Democrats & 100% of the Republicans voted on party lines, yes, both sides were partisan....



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User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 6):
The reason why you have an Independent Commission is to see where things went wrong & how to correct them. The problem was isolated to New Orleans, States that have had disasters before, did not experience the numerous problems that took place in New Orleans.

#1. The comission was going to investigate federal, state, and local response. Are you going to deny that there were failures on all levels to respond properly to the disaster in New Orleans?

#2. I can't think of a disaster of this scale that has happened to other cities or states. We're talking about an entire urban city of over half a million people practically destroyed.

#3. You still didn't answer my question, why oppose an investigation into what went wrong? Are you afraid that failures on the federal level will be revealed (as if they haven't already been)? This would have investigated local and state, as well as federal.



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User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

Reminds me of the same people who fought for the longest time against a 9-11 commission.

User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

B744F,

Amazingly, public pressure made them eventually have a comission on 9-11. 70% of the U.S. (in a recent poll, link in original post) support this sort of investigation. Now a majority of the people want this kind of comission, and the majority of the Senate (all the Republicans) oppose it. Make what you want from that.



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User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 9):
1. The comission was going to investigate federal, state, and local response. Are you going to deny that there were failures on all levels to respond properly to the disaster in New Orleans?

There were problems, I never said there was not....

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 9):
. I can't think of a disaster of this scale that has happened to other cities or states. We're talking about an entire urban city of over half a million people practically destroyed.

We know why, the leevys broke.....

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 9):
You still didn't answer my question, why oppose an investigation into what went wrong? Are you afraid that failures on the federal level will be revealed (as if they haven't already been)? This would have investigated local and state, as well as federal.

There is no reason why an investigation can not be done internally, (2 Democrats, 2 Republicans)

I fully support an investigation, as for an External one, I feell that is not necessary, but, if one was voted upon, I would have no objections.....



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User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1510 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 11):
B744F,

Amazingly, public pressure made them eventually have a comission on 9-11. 70% of the U.S. (in a recent poll, link in original post) support this sort of investigation. Now a majority of the people want this kind of comission, and the majority of the Senate (all the Republicans) oppose it. Make what you want from that.

9/11 was a totally different story, it was not just the attack on the World Trade Center but the problems with the US intelligence agency's.



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User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1509 times:
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Can someone tell us the difference between having Congress do this and having some ex-Senators/Congressmen or women do this?

Seriously....is this a tempest in a teapot? Are the dems looking to create an air of further distrust? Do they not trust themselves to do the job?

Or is this simply a tactic to create an issue for the midterm elections?



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

Had this bill been sponsored by Byron Dorgan or Peter Dominici, this thread wouldn't have 15 replys already in just 30 minutes.
Hillary Clinton sure stirs up a lot of passion on the right.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1504 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 11):
Amazingly, public pressure made them eventually have a comission on 9-11. 70% of the U.S. (in a recent poll, link in original post) support this sort of investigation. Now a majority of the people want this kind of comission, and the majority of the Senate (all the Republicans) oppose it. Make what you want from that.

You really don't know all the barriers put in place by the administration to make sure the 9-11 Commission could not do its job on time and correctly? Regarding budgets, releasing information, etc. And this is after they fought tooth and nail in the first place to create the commission, then GWB appointed a criminal to head the thing.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1501 times:

I would like an investigation into why someone with NO experience in disaster management was appointed by GWB to lead a Federal DISASTER RESPONSE agency.

I though GWB was supposed to be "CEO in Chief", and make up for his incompetence by surrounding himself with competent people. Didn't quite happen in this case.


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1490 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 17):
would like an investigation into why someone with NO experience in disaster management was appointed by GWB to lead a Federal DISASTER RESPONSE agency.

I though GWB was supposed to be "CEO in Chief", and make up for his incompetence by surrounding himself with competent people. Didn't quite happen in this case.

Then you would have to investigate Congress as well as the President......



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User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1489 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 17):
"CEO in Chief"

Do you not know his sucess as a real CEO?


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1488 times:

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 18):
Then you would have to investigate Congress as well as the President......

Agreed, Congress shares some of the blame for approving (rubberstamping) this guy. But that still does not explain why GWB even nominated him for the position.


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1486 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 20):
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 18):
Then you would have to investigate Congress as well as the President......

Agreed, Congress shares some of the blame for approving (rubberstamping) this guy. But that still does not explain why GWB even nominated him for the position.

He was not rubberstamped, Senator Joe Lieberman gave him high praises, which sounds more than a rubber stamp.....



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User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
Why are the Republicans so opposed to this?

Because they're trying to cover their own asses.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 21):
He was not rubberstamped, Senator Joe Lieberman gave him high praises, which sounds more than a rubber stamp.....

So I will ask AGAIN: Why did GWB nominate a guy with NO PRACTICAL DISASTER MANAGEMENT EXPERIENCE????


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1477 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 23):
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 21):
He was not rubberstamped, Senator Joe Lieberman gave him high praises, which sounds more than a rubber stamp.....

So I will ask AGAIN: Why did GWB nominate a guy with NO PRACTICAL DISASTER MANAGEMENT EXPERIENCE????

I have no idea, but, whatever he saw, obviously Congress saw the same thing. Without knowing more about the person, I have no comment. I realize that the media have been having a field day, but, to be honest, I have no answer.....



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25 Superfly : This mismanagement at the federal level of this major catastophy warrants an independant investigation more so than say....Whitewater. Wasn't that a
26 ANCFlyer : Are you ever going to admit Superfly, that there exists catastrophic screw ups at all levels here? Local, State and Federal? If you've done so, I mis
27 Tbar220 : That's not what the investigation would be about. What an asinine statement. The investigation would be on the result of the government on all levels
28 Iakobos : Just an idea.....such a commission would need 9-12 months (my guess). This places the conclusions and public issuance at what point in time ?
29 Tbar220 : I don't know how long it would take. If it was 9-12 months, would you be against it? Personally, I wouldn't. What needs to be done needs to be done.
30 ANCFlyer : Dec 2006/Jan 2007 I would guess, given your timeline. Unless some priority was placed on them to get it done, and get it done now, and of course depe
31 Tbar220 : Ok, ANC made sense of the question for me.
32 Superfly : Sorry for only pointing out federal as this investigation would have exposed mis-management at the local level too. Even Senator Mary Landrieu voted
33 ANCFlyer : That isn't the question I asked you Superfly . . . I didn't ask you who voted for/against it . . . it was a partyline vote . . . I asked you:
34 B757300 : Because this way they can pull another 9/11 Commission and play CYA while trying to do the usual "Blame Bush" game. Expect one of the main DNC talkin
35 Superfly : ANCFlyer: I already told you in a roundabout way.
36 Post contains links AeroWesty : Well, he did, sorta. Except he lied about that part on his resume. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1103003,00.html Before joining FEMA
37 Post contains images ANCFlyer : I'm a simple guy, really . . . Direct answers are best . . . Especially in this case, since, my friend, I've seen your posts regarding this and not o
38 11Bravo : I think you can pretty much count on Katrina and Emergency Response being a national issue with or without an independent commission. I would like to
39 Post contains images Superfly : Same here. No fuzzy math coming from me.   Incorrect    Senator Landrieu has voted with the Republicans 74% of the time. Alaska A.net member L-188
40 Travelin man : Even if what he wrote in his resume was true, somehow it seems to me that being the "assistant city manager of emergency services oversight" of freak
41 DL021 : Not answering the question. No one has said there should not be an inquiry into the response...some sort of AAR and suggestions for improvement are n
42 MidnightMike : Congress confirmed him, if he was unqualified, guess Congress was fooled as well. As for Time magazine, if the was not problem in New Orleans, Time m
43 Tbar220 : I say they're against an investigation. The unanimous vote against it pretty much says it all to me. I'll ask again. Why should they be against it? W
44 Travelin man : I understand your efforts to bob and weave and avoid the central question here. However, neither Congress nor Time Magazine nominated the man for FEM
45 Post contains images ANCFlyer : That is true - however - that is not the reason Landrieu voted the way she did on this issue. Partisan partyline vote. Murkowski . . . not that I car
46 Iakobos : I don't know, frankly I am not aware of these specifics in the US so I have no comment on that (internal or full-sized commission). But our arithmeti
47 Blackbird1331 : The guy who is to blame is a lame-duck. The best we can do is learn from past mistakes, as they are doing as hurricane Ophelia churns off the East coa
48 AeroWesty : Brown was appointed and confirmed as "Deputy" Director of FEMA, then elevated when the Director left. He did not have to go through a second round of
49 11Bravo : According to the article in the thread starter and some other discussions I've heard the GOP wants a commission with a Republican majority, and that
50 MidnightMike : You keep asking the same question, I am assuming you are only looking for one answer? My concern is the timing of setting up an independant commissio
51 Post contains images ANCFlyer : I rather like this Bravo . . . . A Flag Officer in charge, perhaps James Lee Witt co-Chair, Hurricane Guru, and various and sundry other board member
52 Usnseallt82 : And, its heavily scrutinized by the public eye which can hamper investigation efforts. I may be in the minority here, but I don't believe an entire c
53 L-188 : This thread is mistitled. It really should read, Senate kills Hillary's stumping ground. Fact is the democrats want to create the illusion of an "Impa
55 Tbar220 : L-188, Let me ask you the same question I've asked everybody else. Do you support an independent, bipartisan comission to investigate the aftermath an
56 DC10GUY : Some how its OK for them to investigate MLB players for failing drug tests that THEY don't have to take. But the Katrina disaster isn't worth a little
57 Jake056 : I don't support an independent commission because it would be a forum for presidential wannabees to grandstand. There is no reason why Congress can't
58 Tbar220 : Jake, Thanks for the thought out answer. The reason I believe it needs to be independent is because that way it would be bipartisan. Honestly, I just
59 MidnightMike : Your example would actually go the Republican way, the MLB baseball players was handled internally......
60 MidnightMike : So, now we understand, the only reason why you want an Independant commission is because you think that Federal Government was in error, & you do not
61 Usnseallt82 : In case you forgot, our President DID handle a terrorist attack. Would you question his response then? Exactly.
62 DL021 : Did I say I was against an investigation? Let's see... no...I don't think I could be accused of saying there is no investigation/inquiry needed. I do
63 B744F : Just shows how clueless some people are... Yes those evil democrats don't want to find out what went wrong to make sure it doesn't happen again. The
64 MaverickM11 : The 9/11 commission was a farce. Everyone responsible for letting 9/11 happen are still in positions of power, promoted, or shuffled around. Democrat
65 MidnightMike : The 9/11 report showed that the problem was years in the making, some of the people responsible are no longer in power.... As for a farse, a majority
66 Post contains images SATX : I think we need it done correctly more than cheaply or quickly. We're only going to get one shot at this, so we better do it right the first time. I
67 B744F : agreed That is escaping the issue People are afraid of being labeled anti-american if they bring some of the issues to light such as the Administrati
68 MidnightMike : That was covered in the 9/11 report, and it was no big deal......
69 B744F : Nonsense
70 ANCFlyer : Right now if it will make you happy . . . since I'm not guilty thereof, I don't have a problem with what you said at all . . . My question was to poi
71 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Straight from the horse's mouth. I agree. Superfly...a hypocrite? Never!
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