Tbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7011 posts, RR: 28 Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 1332 times:
As you may already know, I think its about time for the President and the Pentagon (Rumsfeld) to give us a timetable for leaving Iraq. At least some sort of plan, something, ANYTHING. Here is an interesting opinion piece I read about it. It takes two minutes to read, check it out, it brings up some good points IMO.
What will it cost to "finish the job"? And what exactly is "the job"?
There is a car parked outside my work that has a self-made laserjet printout taped to the inside back window. It is a silhouette of the outline of Iraq, and some pithy statement like "Don't dishonor our soldiers - Stay and finish the job!".
I've heard that line, usually when some dispassionate conservative is speaking about Cindy Sheehan. The logic, I suppose, is that over 1,899 soldiers have died in Iraq, so we need to have more soldiers die in Iraq so that the ones who are already dead will not have died in vain. Because, you know, they died to prevent Saddam from using his weapons of mass destruction against us. I mean, to topple a cruel and vicious dictator who tortured his own people in Abu Ghraib prison. I mean, to liberate the Iraqi people and bring them sovereignty, security, electricity, water, schools, and the vote. I mean, to make Iraq into the model democracy of the Middle East where Shia, Sunni, and Kurd live in blissful harmony and the entire region cascades into America-lovin' capitalism like falling dominoes.
Hell, I don't know what I mean. I think last I heard it was to protect the oil fields and pipelines from the terrorists who weren't there until we went and invaded. Whatever. As long as those boys don't die in vain.
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This is only the first part of it. Read the rest by clicking on the link.
MidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 16 Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 1319 times:
Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter): As you may already know, I think its about time for the President and the Pentagon (Rumsfeld) to give us a timetable for leaving Iraq. At least some sort of plan, something, ANYTHING. Here is an interesting opinion piece I read about it. It takes two minutes to read, check it out, it brings up some good points IMO.
Sorry, impossible to give a timetable, we are dealing with terrorist, thugs, & animals who would like nothing more to see when we will be leaving Iraq, so that they can lay low & the minute we leave, will start their attacks again....
As far as the op-ed piece from the Anti-Bush blog, nothing really interesting in there, but, I did read it as you suggested...
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 1317 times:
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 1): Sorry, impossible to give a timetable, we are dealing with terrorist, thugs, & animals who would like nothing more to see when we will be leaving Iraq, so that they can lay low & the minute we leave, will start their attacks again....
Oh, and that's why we WENT to war-to get rid of those thugs, right? That's why we can't have a timetable.
Oh...no wait, that was the excuse AFTER we found out there were no WMD (remember those?); AFTER we found out that the whole nation of Iraq wasn't going to welcome us as liberators; after Bush's stunt on the deck of Old Abe, saying the war was, in effect over (Mission Accomplished?).
Those terrorist thugs and animals are in there BECAUSE OF US! We opened the door for them, and let them walk in, AFTER our ill-gotten invasion, Mike.
I agree with have to stay-not because of finding WMD, which aren't there, weren't there when we invaded, and aren't buried in the desert. Not because we want to stamp our way of life on Iraq; not to honor those who have already fallen in a dubious, at best, cause. It's because we owe a debt of honor to the people of Iraq, who's nation we invaded and violated, in the name of getting President Bush a place in the history books. We owe it to them to leave Iraq in a little better shape than we found it, and to let THEM decide what sort of government they will have (Islamic Republic), so that, in 10 years, even when they hate our guts, we would have done right by them.
MidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 16 Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 1307 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
I agree with have to stay-not because of finding WMD, which aren't there, weren't there when we invaded, and aren't buried in the desert. Not because we want to stamp our way of life on Iraq; not to honor those who have already fallen in a dubious, at best,
You, know, I answered the post without saying what my personal opinions are about the war in Iraq, all I mentioned that to announce a date when we will pull-out is impossible to say....
As for your lecture about the war, we can agree to disagree, & leave it at that....
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1294 times:
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 3): As for your lecture about the war, we can agree to disagree, & leave it at that....
You can disagree all you want. This war was a mistake to begin with; is a mistake now, and always will be a mistake. If you want to support a mistake with all your being, that's fine with me. I won't. It's been a disaster, and, fortunately, a majority of Americans have come to see the light on this blunder.
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1278 times:
Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter): I think its about time for the President and the Pentagon (Rumsfeld) to give us a timetable for leaving Iraq.
Virtually impossible to do . . . . it is apparent that any withdrawal on our part will be based on the successes of the Iraqi government at this point. Including the successes of the Iraqi police to police themselves, the Iraqi Military to defend their country. The Iraqi civic leaders to govern themselves. The Iraqi religious leaders to roll back the extremists and attempt to work together.
Yes, Falcon, I know . . . as you so frequently and adamantly point out . . . we're there for all the wrong reasons. But you are right in that now that we are in fact there, we can't bail out. We started this, we have to see it through.
The Pentagon hasn't had a plan since we captured Baghdad . . . you want them to actually put together a plan now??? Dumsfeld couldn't plan a raid on a 7-11 . . . and now you want an exit strategy! BwaaaHaaaHaaa. Dumsfeld surrounded himself with 'yes men' at the Pentagon - and it'll stay that way until he times out, dies or gets fired (personally I could care less which comes first)
Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter): Here is an interesting opinion piece I read about it.
I guess it's interesting . . . from a left wing point of view . . . very slanted . . . looks like some Non-Av rants from A-net . . .
MidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 16 Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1276 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 5): MidnightMike:
Since you support this war so much, why don't you give our troops a hand a help them out? Go join the Army and go to Iraq.
Cute, very cute, I already served in the US Navy, 1986-1990, thank you very much....
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4): Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 3):
As for your lecture about the war, we can agree to disagree, & leave it at that....
You can disagree all you want. This war was a mistake to begin with; is a mistake now, and always will be a mistake. If you want to support a mistake with all your being, that's fine with me. I won't. It's been a disaster, and, fortunately, a majority of Americans have come to see the light on this blunder.
Ok, there you go, feel better? You got the last word in.....
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15733 posts, RR: 48 Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 1245 times:
Prancing on the deck of an aircraft carrier declaring a phony victory is, indeed, an original. No one, not even Mussolini or Emperor Hirohito, let alone Saddam Hussein ever did that.
Now, what would be cutting edge would be seeing you remove your ass from the backroom of a gay bar and put it on the line in Iraq. We need all the fighting age young men who support this war we can get.
Go on. Make your President proud. Make sure that the next time he does a jig and declares victory, it's a REAL one.
MidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 16 Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 1228 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 8): Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 7):
Cute, very cute, I already served in the US Navy, 1986-1990, thank you very much....
You can always go back, right?
Nope, over the age, in case you were interested....
For most of these rightwingers, it's more like "I'll tell you any lousy excuse (boil on one's ass in the case of Rush Limberger), so you don't ask me to serve."
I wonder what M11's excuse is. Big sale on shoes at Macy's coming up?
Tbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7011 posts, RR: 28 Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1203 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6): Virtually impossible to do . . . .
Ok, I completely disagree. Let's look what happened in the Gaza strip.
The Palestinians and Israeli's are fighting a war. In a similar situation, the Israelis were occupying Gaza and fighting a war against an unseen enemy. While this enemy wasn't blowing up or killing Palestinians, there was and still is instability among the community. Palestinians hold elections, and the Israelis offered a time table for their withdrawal. They had a plan, dismantled the checkpoints, evacuated the settlements, and got out. Now less Israeli's are dying, the Palestinians can deal with themselves in Gaza, and Israel has no responsibility in that area anymore.
Perhaps if we let Iraqis deal with their own problems, things would be better. We're trying to shove a square block into a circle by shoving this constitutional process down their throats. Do they think we understand the conflict between the Kurds, Sunnis, and Shiites? Do they think we can solve the problem by shoving our version of democracy down their throats?
I say, give us a definite timetable for withdrawal. Have independent oversight of elections there, to make sure that they are free and fair. I don't think the insurgency will be as strong with us there, but I'm not clairvoyant.
Anyways, step by step. First step should be the timetable. Ultimately, I would like to see our last troops leave in two years at MOST.
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