Garnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5551 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2381 times:
Perception is dead-off. I've driven a Hyundai for two years now and in terms of quality, it's unmatched. A 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty? You don't give that as standard unless you're pretty sure owners won't have to cash in on that very frequently. I've had my "Check Engine Light" go on a total of once when an air sensor burned out. Took it to the dealership, it was replaced with no fuss. My old Chevrolet Corsica, on the other hand (which wasn't that old..roughly 6-7 years old when we got rid of it), had numerous electrical and engine problems.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
CaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2332 times:
Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 5): A 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty? You don't give that as standard unless you're pretty sure owners won't have to cash in on that very frequently.
You can also make the warranty so it takes a virtual act of god to stay under it for the whole 10 years/100,000mi term. If they get an oil change somewhere else in year 2 the manufacturer gets out of 8 years of liability. I have heard some horror stories about he KIA warranty.
AR1300, climb into the cockpit of the your father's Mercedes at the back, check how the seats handle the weight of the persons on them, how the dashboard and everything seems to be carved in one huge block of wood, how you feel you are sitting in your living room, where furniture stays where it is because it heavy, sturdy, well-built and robust etc etc. At the same time, the design is always classical but appealing.
Now climb into the cockpit of the last E-class at the back. Notice how flimsy the seats seem in comparison (the regular seats), how normal the dashboard feels, actually just like any other car, how the dashboard is not nearly as well buit as the old ones, and rattles and squeaks already. Today, the new dashboard is your average car's dashboard. And from the inside, a Mercedes feels today like a normal car. It probably costs less than before to design and produce as well. It's good for immedieate business and balance sheets. It's bad for the image and long-term business. One of the most appealing aspects of a Mercedes is completely gone for me, unless I look inside the Maybach.
Mercedes lost focus. For example, they are now into blatant and visible high-performance, whereas before, all their super cars (the 450SEL 6.3, the 500E, etc) looked very discreet, and were among the discreet manager's favorites. Today they're into much more eye-catching designs. And somewhere in the mix, spending millions to make "underlying" quality that feeds the perception, went off the list.
Losing focus, in managerial terms, is a big mistake..
Fumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2226 times:
I have driven pretty much every Mercedes and BMW out there, they belong to clients, and while I do enjoy the ride, they are not worth the money. They break down a lot and parts and maintence are ridiculous. Don't even get me started on VW. I used to own a 69 Beetle as well as an 80's Jetta. I used to love the price as well as the easy maintenance. Now, because every recent college graduate wants to buy a German car to appear like a Yuppie proffessional, they are overpriced and underengineered. For christs sake-a Jetta goes for something like $22gs!! Volkswagon means folkswagon, or people's wagon. Its supposed to be affordable. I would rather pay for inexpensive American or Jap engineering than overpriced German.
Cornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2213 times:
Quoting Bongo (Thread starter): these are the top ten best cars for Europeans in terms of Quality perceptions:
The key word here being PERCEPTION. Meaning that it is what they THINK is the best and worst quality whether or not they've ever sat in them.
Actually owneship surveys are a far better guide to what quality, reliability and so on. Ironically in the main UK ownership survey, the Skoda Octavia came in the Top 5 and the very worst car in the UK from an owners perspective was the Mercedes M-Class which had truly appalling quality and reliability issues - not helped by bad Mercedes dealers either.
Agree 100% Kay - and MB have come under a lot of criticism for their build qulaity these days. The old late 80s E-Class were built to last for ever, and you still see loads of them around with huge mileages and in great conditions - the new one won't get close to achieving those sort of mileages.
Quoting Paul (Reply 6): What are you all talking about!
Best cars- Mercedes Benz, are you mad. They are made out of plastic, there shite. Lexus are crap as well.
1. Aston Martin
Now thats a realistic line up!
Err they're talking about quality - not favourite cars. With that in mind Maserati drops down the list somewhat and while I'll forgive the Aston DB9 anything for looking that gorgeous, apparently its had its share of reliability issues.....
Kay From France, joined Mar 2002, 1887 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2199 times:
Quoting Cornish (Reply 16): while I'll forgive the Aston DB9 anything for looking that gorgeous, apparently its had its share of reliability issues
I hear what you're saying for the looks. A DB9 overtook me on a Czech highway once. The "what-the-f*ck" effect is intense. Up there with the best Ferraris if not better than some. Much more than seeing it parked. Regarding reliability, isn't it normal for a supercar?
Quoting Paul (Reply 6): 3. Ferrari
What exactly are you listing here? favorite logos? what has VW or a Volvo to do with Ferrari and Porsche..
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2150 times:
Quoting Atco2b (Reply 17): Quoting Paul (Reply 6):
Best cars- Mercedes Benz, are you mad. They are made out of plastic, there shite. Lexus are crap as well
I agree with the Mercedes comment. Would probably break down. However, Lexus are the luxury arm of Toyota, and are very reliable.
Lexus are indeed reliable - and boring. I have an Acura TL, which is an excellent car. Every time I pass a Lexus ES300 - with its no MT option and it's Lincoln-like pillow ride - I smile and thank the Honda engineers for creating a car that is kick in the ass to drive and an incredible value. It is as good as the BMW 5 series? No, but at $10,000 less, I'll gladly take the Acura.
DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2062 times:
>> Lexus are indeed reliable - and boring. I have an Acura TL, which is an excellent car.
The TL does, indeed, rock.
>> Every time I pass a Lexus ES300 - with its no MT option and it's Lincoln-like pillow ride - I smile and thank the Honda engineers for creating a car that is kick in the ass to drive and an incredible value.
The Lexus ES and the Acura TL are aimed at different market audiences. There are tons of people, albiet 50+ most likely, who want nothing more than the pillow ride you speak of. Hard for us young wipper-snappers to understand sometime, but a more accurate TL competitor would be the Lexus IS or maybe (less so) the GS platform.
>> According to www.harrisinteractive.com these are the top ten best cars for Europeans in terms of Quality perceptions:
Ironic... because stateside, number 2 is average, 6/8 are at the top, and the rest are in the pits. Fine cars all of them, but Audi/VW especially have been suffering major quality control issues in the 2001-2005 model years. I wouldn't touch anything with the 1.8T engine with a stick.
You're right in that this one was not a 450, but a 300, otherwise SEL 6.3. Weird, but the 6.9 was its successor, and was slower. I can't put my hand on figures, but I seem to remember I read (maybe wrong?) that the 6.9 is not quite so fast as the 6.3.
Finally... to make things more complicated... some 6.9s were equipped with a 6.3 engine. example..
[Edited 2005-09-23 07:26:06]
: Thanks for that link! I find it very interesting that Mercedes-Benz is much farther down the list than their state-side step child Chrylser. If you a
: Best cars in America: Anything that wasn't designed in America. I'm not non-patriotic, I just know our cars are crap! I've had a GM, a Ford, and Toyot
: Here's my list: 1. BMW 2. Porsche 3. Audi 4. Lexus/ Toyota 5. Mercedes-Benz 6. Acura/ Honda 7. Volkswagen 8. Volvo 9. Land Rover 10. Chrysler (esp. th