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European Union Wants To Share Control Of Internet  
User currently offlineThumper3181 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3777 times:

The EU has decided that governments and and private business must share overseeing the Internet. The US has rejected this and said it would continue to be the Internet's ultimate authority.

It was the US that created Internet as a Pentagon project and funded much of it's early development. The Commerce department has "delegated much of that responsibility to a U.S.-based private organization with international board members, but Commerce ultimately retains veto power."

Sounds like our european "friends" are causing trouble again.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050930/...;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cjE0b2MwBHNlYwM3Mzg-

143 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

The idea is not to put the worldwide internet under european control (the way it is under american control now) but to put it under international control. Very different deal.

Whether the proposed concept is actually the optimal one or if greater independence from governmental oversight would be desirable is a different question. But the exclusive american control of resources essential to worldwide communication is an anachronism and cannot be perpetuated in the long run, even considering the undoubted historical merits going back to ARPANet.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
Sounds like our european "friends" are causing trouble again.

You might also try to find out the difference between the friends you have and the servants you apparently wish you had.


User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

I was JUST about to post an article on this. Before reading this, I never knew that the US has authority over the internet, just like GPS.

I believe it's not only the EU, but it's also the whole UN that wants some control.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050929/...;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cjE0b2MwBHNlYwM3Mzg-

Honestly though, putting the "we made it" argument aside, is there something really bad about the way the internet is run? It's the ultimate form of free speech throughout the world. If the UN were to be involved, I wouldn't want a country like China having a say in how the internet is run. Besides, they modify it however they see fit anyway.

The internet would become a huge bureaucratic mess. Leave it alone!



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

Nonsense. Different UN agencies already now manage certain internationally relevant resources without being an impediment to their use.

In this case it is not about censorship, by the way, but about the root name servers and their management as well as the allocation of the increasingly tight IP V4 address space.


User currently offlineNUair From Malaysia, joined Jun 2000, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3741 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
It was the US that created Internet



I invented the Internet not you! Give it back!

Signed,
Al Gore (inventor of the Internet)



"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

Bit late for that, isn't it? Big grin

User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7917 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):

Sounds like our european "friends" are causing trouble again.

Yep, for the second time after the 1999 Kosovo War, but I didn't know the Serbs were your friends.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3736 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
Sounds like our european "friends" are causing trouble again.

Nothing like a little bit of Eurobashing, huh?

As for the issue at hand, why do people feel a need to control the internet anyway? Isn't it (close to) impossible anyway? I mean, it's able to withstand everything from the breakdown of several root servers to giant earthquakes destroying thousands of lines because it's such a widespread, highly dense network - and people really think someone who doesn't want to be controlled won't find a way to remain "in stealth mode"?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3712 times:

It's fairly obvious that Google control the internet, anyway  Silly


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineNUair From Malaysia, joined Jun 2000, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 8):
why do people feel a need to control the internet anyway?

Tax baby!

All that stuff being sold on the internet is going free of taxes in many cases or people can buy products from places with lower taxes. For example I live in DC and buy stuff on the internet from New Hampshire (where they have no sales tax) and have it sent down. I could only imagine what it would be like with Eastern Europe in the EU, if I was in Germany I would probably be receiving 200 packages per month from Poland.

Imagine how much tax revenue is being lost on those porn sites...what happened to the good old strip clubs and playboy subscriptions of yesteryear?



"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
User currently offlineThumper3181 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
But the exclusive american control of resources essential to worldwide communication is an anachronism and cannot be perpetuated in the long run, even considering the undoubted historical merits going back to ARPANet.

Sorry Klaus just a rationalisation for stealing here. If you really think it that important the the US not control the Internet whcih we US taxpayers own and let the rest of the world use for free without complaint then I suggest you go and set up your own. Lets see who hurts most on that one.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
Whether the proposed concept is actually the optimal one or if greater independence from governmental oversight would be desirable is a different question.

A question which you as a non owner have no right to be part of.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
You might also try to find out the difference between the friends you have and the servants you apparently wish you had.

Friends do not try to steal that which is freely given.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 3):
I believe it's not only the EU, but it's also the whole UN that wants some control.

Up until today the EU had respected private property. They changed their mind when they thought they had a chance to try and weaken the US. Typical Euro backstabbing. Lastly it makes no difference if it is the whole world or just the EU. You do not take what is not yours.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 11):
Sorry Klaus just a rationalisation for stealing here. If you really think it that important the the US not control the Internet whcih we US taxpayers own and let the rest of the world use for free without complaint then I suggest you go and set up your own. Lets see who hurts most on that one.

The sad thing is that you apparently don't even have the slightest clue what the internet actually is, how it operates and what "ownership" and "control" in its context would actually mean.

Whereas the initial protocol architecture had been developed for the Pentagon, it is obvious that the later extensions of the internet all over the world have been paid for by the respective international participants. It is stunningly ridiculous to claim any kind of US "ownership" of the internet.

Especially when you're looking at the WorldWide Web, which was actually invented at CERN in Europe. You may have noted that no european claim of "ownership" of the web has ever been made even though every link you're clicking is formed in european-invented HTML and triggers an european-invented http transaction (which makes use of the lower level IP protocol, a descendant of the ARPANet protocol).  Yeah sure

The development of a unified network was next to inevitable - the IP protocol simply cornered the market early on and has turned out to be a pretty decent choice. If it hadn't been that, we would probably use one of the many possible alternatives.

What is in dispute is the sole US control over IP address allocation and the root name servers. While historically sensible and obvious, this (primarily administrative) structure has become outdated and does not reflect the structure of or contributions to the network properly any more. The internet has long stopped being an american development.

You have not only thoroughly embarrassed yourself about your own ignorance of the matter, your repulsive attitude is also sadly reminiscent of bygone eras when self-appointed "noblemen" demanded submission of those they deemed below their station. You may be aware that exactly this attitude has been one of the reasons why the USA have been founded in the first place.

An "internet revolution" that would simply unlink from the US administrative structure and create international structures instead is not very likely at this point, but it is in fact feasible.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 11):
Friends do not try to steal that which is freely given.

Get a clue.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 11):
Up until today the EU had respected private property. They changed their mind when they thought they had a chance to try and weaken the US. Typical Euro backstabbing. Lastly it makes no difference if it is the whole world or just the EU. You do not take what is not yours.

An apology would be a good idea.


You could have found this information yourself, but since your internet skills appear to be lacking, here are some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpanet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN


User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

What the US controls are the DNS servers. That is almost absolute power, its as close to being able to "shut down" whatever you want as you can get.

Should the world control it? Sure, why not. This American childish response to everything "mine mine mine" is so boring


User currently offlineThumper3181 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
The sad thing is that you apparently don't even have the slightest clue what the internet actually is, how it operates and what "ownership" and "control" in its context would actually mean.

I have a bachelors Degree in Computer Science
I have a Masters Degree in Internet Business systems
Numerous high level Industry Certifications
I make a nice living as an Internetworking Consultant

By the way use a capital "I" in Internet.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Whereas the initial protocol architecture had been developed for the Pentagon, it is obvious that the later extensions of the internet all over the world have been paid for by the respective international participants. It is stunningly ridiculous to claim any kind of US "ownership" of the internet.

I think not. Rather than go through it all here why don't you go back and READ all of the articles in the links you cite. The Pentagon directly funded the first workable internetwork whose basic design is no different today than it was 25 years ago, it is also obvious (if you reread the text you cite) that it was American Universities (funded by the government), and scientists and American companies that performed the vast bulk of the work that went in to what we know of today as the Internet.

The only major component of the Internet that was first developed outside of the US was the WWW application. Tim Berners-Lee's three inventions URL, HTML, and the HTTP protocol became the core application (there where other competing packages) for Web browsing or what we refer to as the WWW. The genius of Lee was that he made it free to all. Once this was done, the WWW's economic appeal made it all but inevitable that the WWW would supplant earlier (American) browser projects such as Gopher, Mosaic, and WAIS. It is also worth noting that WWW needed additional development and did not come in to widespread use until Lee left Europe and continued it's development at MIT (Government funded). Not to pile on but even the computer that he developed the WWW on and that which it was first designed to run on the NeXT Cube was invented by Steve Jobs (you guessed it another American).

The WWW is only a small part of the Internet. I suggest you really read those articles you cited. Routers, Ethernet, FTP, SNMP, unshielded twisted pair cable, DNS, Internet numbering .... the list goes on. Invented here and funded largely through the government and private business.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
What is in dispute is the sole US control over IP address allocation and the root name servers. While historically sensible and obvious, this (primarily administrative) structure has become outdated and does not reflect the structure of or contributions to the network properly any more. The internet has long stopped being an American development.

You are confusing contribution with usage. The two are different. Users, unless they pay or build the network do not control it. The DNS and IP address allocation is ours because we invented it, payed for it and used it first.

As for continued contributions to Internet development I will quote Wickepedia from one of your citations:
"As the Web grew, search engines and Web directories were created to track pages on the web and allow people to find things. The first search engine, Lycos, was created in 1993 as a university project. In 1993, the first web magazine, The Virtual Journal, was published by a University of Maine student. At the end of 1993, Lycos indexed a total of 800,000 web pages."

Oh yeah almost forgot, ever hear of Google?

Actually take a look at the CERN entry in Wikapedia. They have a picture of an early Cisco router, possibly the first in Europe. Wonder where that came from?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
You have not only thoroughly embarrassed yourself about your own ignorance of the matter, your repulsive attitude is also sadly reminiscent of bygone eras when self-appointed "noblemen" demanded submission of those they deemed below their station.

I think it is you who should be embarrassed by citing articles that clearly prove you wrong. You have no right to that which does not belong to you no matter how important it is to you. Why not demand the plans for Intel chips or Microsoft Windows source code. Oops forgot the EU already has demanded that of Microsoft.

Rather than apologies to me feel free to thank me for the information.

Cheer up, there is always IPv6!


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

Thumper3181, I officially ask you to stop using a car. We invented it and therefore we own it.

Oh, and have fun using YOUR internet without a computer, because we invented that too.

Oh, and don't even think of travelling by air, Otto Lillienthal was the first to do so, and as official owner of the sky doesn't want jackasses like you to fly.

Kinda limits your ways of transportation. But hey, you could still ride a bicycle...no wait, that's ours too. But maybe you can trade with the Brits, they can use your internet and you can use their trains. Otherwise, walking is good for your health.


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Is there anyone who don`t know why the US is nowadays so unloved all over the world ? What could be the reasons for that?

Axel

[Edited 2005-10-01 15:44:54]


Wer wenig weiss muss vieles glauben
User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
The genius of Lee was that he made it free to all.

And I´m sure that he don`t want it to be controlled by a government, neither of the US, nor by any other.

Axel

[Edited 2005-10-01 15:51:06]


Wer wenig weiss muss vieles glauben
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
I have a bachelors Degree in Computer Science
I have a Masters Degree in Internet Business systems
Numerous high level Industry Certifications
I make a nice living as an Internetworking Consultant

You also haven't got a clue about what you are talking about. Great advertising there bud.

Got paper? Yep. Got a clue? Nope.

Quoting B744F (Reply 13):
Rather than apologies to me feel free to thank me for the information.

Fee free to go and find out what Internet actually means. An international network. Not anybody's personal or national property. The root servers should be controlled by no one Government as it could theoretically limit free speech and trade.

You and your nation do not pay for my Internet connection or any of the transit or cabling I use. Why should you have rights over me and the billions of other users globally who have peered to US systems?

Guess what? Your nation is just a corner of the global network. An increasingly less important one too. As you allege you are some kind of network guru, then you should also understand that you can be marginalised if that were necessary. This proposal by the EU is both fair and justified as it takes national and political concerns out of Internet governance, and should be adopted as the least problematic solution.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

Quoting Racko (Reply 15):
Thumper3181, I officially ask you to stop using a car. We invented it and therefore we own it.

That about sums it up!  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineSoyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3466 times:

I don't like the fact that internet commerce in my country is ultimately controlled by the US government. No foreign government should have control over my conducting commerce with any entity in Australia, or any other country (which is not part of that foreign government).

With the US government breaking their promise several months ago, it is time that the rest of the world, via the UN, set up our own root servers, with national authorities moving to the new root servers. Basically a splintering of the net. It would hurt commerce in the short to medium term but what revolutions don't cause a degree of shock at the beginning?


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3443 times:

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 20):
I don't like the fact that internet commerce in my country is ultimately controlled by the US government.

That's not actually what's happening. But even administrative oversight should not be concentrated in one single country and dependent on that country's highly erratic government when it's about an essential resource for global communication.

We're not quite at the point where independent root server structures or IP address allocation would be immediately imminent; But since the effort to introduce such structures would be rather limited it's still quite a plausible alternative.


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3428 times:

Quoting Racko (Reply 15):
Thumper3181, I officially ask you to stop using a car. We invented it and therefore we own it.

Oh, and have fun using YOUR internet without a computer, because we invented that too.

That's a flawed analogy because no one is asking you to stop using the Internet.

I don't know much about the Internet past the basics, but why does the EU/UN want control over it too? Is there a problem with the way we run it.

AAndrew


User currently offlineAirbuzz From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 11):

Sorry Klaus just a rationalisation for stealing here. If you really think it that important the the US not control the Internet whcih we US taxpayers own and let the rest of the world use for free without complaint then I suggest you go and set up your own. Lets see who hurts most on that one.

US owns Internet?  rotfl 

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
I have a bachelors Degree in Computer Science
I have a Masters Degree in Internet Business systems
Numerous high level Industry Certifications
I make a nice living as an Internetworking Consultant

Where did you buy that paper?


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3392 times:

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
I have a bachelors Degree in Computer Science
I have a Masters Degree in Internet Business systems
Numerous high level Industry Certifications
I make a nice living as an Internetworking onsultant

And yet not an ounce of common sense.

Quoting Airbuzz (Reply 23):
Where did you buy that paper?

I hear you can buy them on the "American" Internet.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
By the way use a capital "I" in Internet.

That shows just how ignorant you are. The Internet (capital I) is what we think of as hosting the WWW. An internet (lower case I) is simply routers connecting networks together. To treat both as the Internet is frankly ridiculous. But of course, you knew that since you're an "expert".

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):

Thank goodness somebody here knows what they're talking about.

Geoff M.


25 Clipperhawaii : Sharing "control" is fine. But people are "afraid" of U.S. control over the internet? Wow, the country that has amassed the most power ever in the wor
26 Post contains images Aloges : I shudder when I think about the reaction this little diatribe would have got had it been aimed at the US...
27 Oldeuropean : But the possibility to shut down the internet, when ever they want it, is the only reason for the US government to insist on the control of it. So th
28 Pyrex : Maybe we (i.e. the rest of the world) should do like we are doing in Galileo... create a system outside the control of the US military but that is sti
29 Exile : No. NOBODY is saying that they "want control over it". The actual issue has already been addressed so I wont explain it again, but if you still don't
30 Clipperhawaii : And shut down the vast e-commerce that companies have in the U.S? What are you smoking? Get rid of it. LOL
31 Post contains images Oldeuropean : To shut down the internet in times of crisis (Hey, your government feigned WMDs to attack an other country, they are unscrupulous. I don`t trust them
32 Post contains links Thumper3181 : "Atanasoff Berry Computer was the world's first electronic digital computer. It was built by Dr. John Vincent Atanasoff and Clifford E. Berry at Iowa
33 DLPMMM : I think that this would be a terrible idea. Once control was given to an international body (ie the UN) youi know the next step is to start taxing it
34 DfwRevolution : >> To shut down the internet in times of crisis (Hey, your government feigned WMDs to attack an other country, they are unscrupulous. I don`t trust t
35 Post contains images NoUFO : Thumper3181, Words fail me. - Apparently, you haven't understand what Europe's position on "controlling the Net" really is. - The few facts you have m
36 Post contains images Klaus : If you've got a toxic spill, you don't improve things by letting it spread. Well, not that I wouldn't put it past the current - very obviously untrus
37 Eatmybologna : I concur. After reading all posts and reading all links that were suggested, Thumper3181 is right. You others, please stop your ugliness. Oldeuropean
38 Clipperhawaii : Better hide under the bed along with the boogy man then. If you can't trust the U.S. you probably can't trust your own government. No matter how "old
39 Post contains images Klaus : You're kidding, right? Where have you been for the past five years? In outer space?
40 Bhill : ALOHA dear friends.....pun intended...the governtments of the world already control the telecom fabrics of the planet...is it the content or the "pipe
41 Thumper3181 : Yes I can see that from the total lack of any logic in your past posts. Would you care to enlighten me where I have got it wrong? Specifically which
42 ACDC8 : Not that the US Government pays any attention to the WTO, they just go ahead and do their own thing anyway. Personally, I'd feel much more comfortabl
43 Gigneil : No, they don't. N
44 Post contains links NoUFO : Thumper, Perhaps I'll comment on more things you wrote tomorrow. It's 4 a.m. and I should finally get some sleep, so I'm going to adress only this: Go
45 Eatmybologna : As does the EU. Canada (softwood).
46 Petertenthije : Just one problem with that theory, it is very easy to move data around. All that needs to be done to get around this blockade is to move the data fro
47 Post contains images Fumanchewd : The "inter" portion of internet means international? I wonder what intranet means then? Inter means the same thing as when its in the word "internal"
48 Post contains links Thumper3181 : I think you are partially right. All governments either control or can get access to the physical telecommunications infrastructure (pipes) in their
49 Clipperhawaii : 5 Years? Outer space? Please. When I hear crap that the U.S. can't be trusted I just shake my head. The U.S. is the most trustworthy country on the f
50 Post contains images Oldeuropean : I give you one catchword (one of thousands): Valerie Plame! Do you want more? We have so much to share. Axel[Edited 2005-10-02 12:00:12]
51 Post contains images Gkirk : Leave it the way it is. Just the EU trying to stir up some more crap. Typical of them
52 Oldeuropean : Gkirk, you don`t get it. Only Thumper3181 says that the EU wants to control it. You are beeing taken in his propaganda. Countries from all over the w
53 Post contains images Gkirk : The Internet is fine as it is. Why other countries are moaning I don't know. Anyway, the EU still sucks
54 Post contains images Oldeuropean : Yeah, a very intellectual approach to this subject. Take some more beers. Axel
55 Post contains images Aloges : If I started counting the lies the Bush admin has tried to sell as gospel truth (and apparently succeeded in your case, Clipperhawaii), could I manag
56 Aloges : Sorry, but someone who claims to shouldn't use Google Fight to prove a point: Kind of questions one guy's credibility... in fact this lapse is more em
57 NoUFO : Not quite. I don't see how 1,3 billion should be a larger number than 2,97 billion, but you have, again, missed the point. I have illustrated why Goo
58 Eatmybologna : The way I see it is 2.4 billion (total) minus 1.3 billion (US IP count) equals 1.1 billion (rest of world.) What fuzzy math are you using? I believe
59 Post contains links 777236ER : http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/page/0,5817,184827,00.html We don't watch Television, nor listen to the Radio, so there's no need to surf the In
60 NoUFO : I was referring to this stupid, although amusing result Gogglefight comes with when you compare "USA" to "World" rather than "Us" to "World" as serio
61 Thumper3181 : Good morning class! I have been reading some of your shall we say more interesting posts and have the following comments. Let it be known that this wi
62 Post contains links and images Oldeuropean : Oh yes, you are well loved. The world loves your military actions, your tense attempt to hold control over resources, communication, economy, the int
63 Post contains images Oldeuropean : This response shows your intellectual capabilities. "Yeah, a very intellectual approach to this subject. Take some more beers." was a answer to: Gkir
64 NoUFO : Right, everything has been said anyway.
65 Gigneil : This thread is completely and totally irrelevant. The US government has no oversight of the Internet. None. N
66 Post contains images Clipperhawaii : I have never seen the German EU contingent (lets call it for what it is) on here so worked up over a thread before. Interesting, the name calling afte
67 BananaBoY : You can't trust anyone with anything, especially if they are "forin." Signed 99% of Xenophobes. Seriously though, what do you Thumper3181 propose as a
68 Pyrex : Be my guest. 300 million people versus the rest of the world, who do you think would lose the most? And how long would it take for Google, Amazon, Ya
69 Halls120 : Do you really think control of the Internet by the UN would be an improvement? How will national and political concerns be removed by giving control
70 Thumper3181 : If we where truly xenophbic we would not be having this conversation right now. There is no problem that requires a solution. The US has already dive
71 Post contains images Klaus : In the longer term it is simply not possible that an essential ressource of global communication and commerce is under US-exclusive jurisdiction when
72 Clipperhawaii : LOL You sound like a 1960's cold war communist. How can you counter this delusional mind? Tyrannical empire, imperial grandeur, fragile, topping over
73 Post contains images Halls120 : Even if the above is all true, it doesn't answer the question I asked - which was a serious question. I asked how giving control of the Internet to t
74 Post contains links Thumper3181 : Klaus you must be an anarchist, Axel and NoUfo both say you are not supposed to be feeding the trolls. What are you doing back here? Oops sorry just i
75 Post contains images BananaBoY : Come on.. even you are beginning to sound blinkered. What about the so-called "Patriot" Act. This, admittedly, is a whole other thread. Mark
76 Post contains images Stall : Great way to start a threat. Congratulations !!! I think you will rapidly becomme a star here on A.net. Well it is only Anet but your are a star anyw
77 Post contains images Gkirk : The way he said it was in poor taste, but the meaning behind that was correct though. Americans have no idea why they are disliked so much (although
78 Post contains images Halls120 : What about it? Do you even have a clue as to what it does? That it has withstood every court challenge to date? That most all of it is on the verge o
79 Stall : I don't want to seems pessimistic but I don't think your idea will work. Everybody or nobody should have a form of control.
80 BananaBoY : Well, from my limited research on it, yes. It appears to, in part, govern what access government can have to the data held by individual, independant
81 Halls120 : I disagree. Most Americans are very aware of why we are disliked. However, most Americans just don't care..... Universal control is a nice idea in th
82 Iakobos : Even lawyers do change their tune when the case has been brought to judicial conclusion, why don't you indulge ? Want me to list the names of all per
83 BananaBoY : I assure you that is not the case. That wasn't really what I was doing, but possibly I don't understand it in full. Mark
84 Post contains links Thumper3181 : Allow me to repost something I already said. Obviously if you had read it you would realize that the Patriot Act is very minor intrusion compared to
85 BananaBoY : Not particularly. There are many ways in which you can do that yourself. Hate to say it, but look what happened to those "empires." Mark[Edited 2005-
86 Post contains images Klaus : By defending the right to property for the ones who actually paid for the infrastructure that has been claimed to "belong" to the USA all of a sudden
87 Thumper3181 : In other words you are too lazy or ignorant to back up your claim. Just another opinion of yours. Yup, they both lasted for several hundred years and
88 Halls120 : It doesn't matter how big the corruption balloon was with regard to the oil for food program. It exists. Even Kofi Annan's deputy admits that the UN,
89 Post contains images Klaus : As if the competition between Airbus and Boeing is not aggressive. You missed the point, as usual so far. There is no problem with competition. There
90 Halls120 : I can usually tell the difference between Bush-centered hatred and general anti-Americanism, but in some cases it is hard to tell the difference. My
91 Solarix : The Internet is fine the way it is. Don't like it? Unplug your PC! Simple as that. End of discussion.
92 Post contains images Iakobos : So, your opinion is at least partially based on the opportunistic sexual behaviour of say, a Nigerian low rank, instructed to trade his fg helmet for
93 Klaus : It's a reform proposal, no mad rush anywhere in sight! No they are not. They are complex agencies with large operations on the ground and often opera
94 Thumper3181 : Once again you are wrong no one but the US paid for that which makes the Internet what it is and I am not talking about your local infrastructure. Br
95 B744F : How interesting. the same people who fight to the death for a free market and globalization are demanding America keep control of something because "t
96 Halls120 : Wow. What an amazing example of deductive reasoning we have here. Of course, the fact that I list my occupation as "attorney" in my profile might hav
97 Eatmybologna : Well Klaus reads the following books: 1. "101 ways to piss of Thumper" 2. "How to cope not being an American" 3. "My Daddy is Santa" Drugs: 1. Prozac
98 Thumper3181 : No that is not being said at all. Both sides argue that final control of the Internet is too important to leave to one another. The US position is th
99 TedTAce : Amazing, only to references to IPv6. The cattle keep marching like the lambs they are. I wonder what 'our' excuse will be when v6 is burying v4? Last
100 Stall : Exemple ?
101 Thumper3181 : Right off the top of my head the generalization that Europeans make about American being stupid comes to mind. That is a classic manifestation of a d
102 Post contains images Airbuzz : to Bush. Keep your national interest and don't care about the rest of the world. When the rest of the world will stop using the dollar, it will becom
103 B744F : Yes you're right, you do live by a double standard. Thanks for making that very clear. Good question, look no further than Google or AOL right now to
104 Thumper3181 : Sorry B744F, it's hard to take someone seriously who after a thread of over 100 posts still does not know what the main subjetc of the thread is all
105 Klaus : Thumper, you have brought little beyond your prejudice and your wishful thinking to this debate. In actual fact there is no basis for claims of "owner
106 B744F : Why don't you humor me and explain how I am wrong?
107 Halls120 : That was, of course, a joke - no surprise you didn't get it. You keep arguing on behalf of the urgent need to reform the Interent, yet you seem curio
108 B744F : You're right I don't get it. Illogical comments do not compute I answered your stupid question, do you ever bother to address my comments or do you o
109 Halls120 : LOL, you really are a piece of work. Were you so intent on hitting the post button that you didn't realize that the question I posed in my post107 wa
110 Post contains images Klaus : Actual internet traffic is not the concern of the central registry. The registry only provides these functions: • Assigning an IP address to a cert
111 Halls120 : Thanks for the detailed response. If the potential China/Iran control issue is thus rendered harmless in your explanation because the central registr
112 Thumper3181 : Go read the articles Klaus cites in reply 12. Then read the middle of my reply 14 that deals with the WWW and how it is an application that runs on t
113 Klaus : The www is not an "application". It is a virtual network which applications interact with both on the client and on the server side. You're drawing r
114 Post contains links Thumper3181 : "The World Wide Web ("WWW", "W3", or simply "Web") is an information space in which the items of interest, referred to as resources, are identified b
115 Post contains links and images Klaus : It only shows again how superficial your knowledge and handling of these topics is. "Application" in a computing context specifically identifies a co
116 B744F : HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA Sure it is
117 Post contains links Thumper3181 : Klause I am tired of having the same old circular debate with you. Lets just say that the WWW is a subset of the Internet and leave it at that. It is
118 Post contains images Klaus : You getting caught at spouting nonsense has nothing to do with it at all, of course...! I'm actually developing applications, so I do have a pretty g
119 Halls120 : True enough. But the other less than pretty picture is the issue of why you are so intent on replacing ICANN, when you choose to ignore the question
120 Klaus : Didn't recognize anything had been left open... The reason why I would see a problem with the current construction (not necessarily exactly what the
121 Thumper3181 : I am really sorry you cannot grasp written English. I do not mean it as an insult to you but it was only nonsense to you. Very simply subset = part o
122 Post contains images Klaus : I'm sorry for you, but your problem is not that I didn't understand the language (although I'm always eager to learn ) - your problem is simply that y
123 Thumper3181 : Sorry Klaus, I just call them like I see them. It cannot be any clearer and still you insist that some International organization has a right to attem
124 Klaus : The issue of global ownership is the one you've entirely failed to materialize. Without that, all your conclusions, rants and insults are simply basel
125 Thumper3181 : Klaus just answer two simple questions (not that they haven't been asked before). What entity funded the development of the DNS system? What entity fu
126 Klaus : The free and no-strings-attached contribution of those essential, but comparatively cheap initial developments to the worldwide network community was
127 Thumper3181 : Klaus could you please answer the two questions. Thanks Thumper
128 Klaus : It is common knowledge that the US DoD largely funded the initial development (with academic contributions), but it is completely irrelevant to the co
129 Thumper3181 : Well Klaus you partially answered the first question and avoided answering the second question. Let me help you to complete the answer on the first qu
130 Joni : Thumper, What kind of IT-related business are you up to in the Vatican?
131 Post contains images Klaus : My statements have all been completely consistent from the first to the last and there simply isn't any of your questions left open: The US government
132 DaddiesSecret : this is not true, it's not a new thing at all.. and the sad thing he truely beleives it!
133 Aloges : Playing the game for a little longer: Who invented the printing press? Which company invented Aspirin? I know you don't care what people who don't ag
134 DaddiesSecret : but it's the US and you know that they're different!
135 Post contains images Aloges : Pardon? That post you quoted was addressing Thumper3181 personally, certainly not the entire USA.
136 Post contains links Thumper3181 : Don't be so sure. "There are many organisations, corporations, governments, schools, private citizens and service providers that all own pieces of th
137 Klaus : Your evidence doesn't validate your conclusions, your wishful thinking notwithstanding. Sorry.
138 Post contains links Thumper3181 : Sorry to you Klaus. It is your position that is invalid, not mine. On more than one occasion I have stated my opinion,and backed it up with documented
139 Klaus : Apart from "We own the internet because I say so!" you weren't able to produce anything with any kind of legal weight - which is exactly what you'd ne
140 Klaus : You're confused about the relationship between conceptual design, authorship, copyright, usage rights, exclusivity or waiver thereof and finally prope
141 Klaus : Well, well... a post vanishing just like that... (former #140) interesting...
142 Post contains images Aloges : Might have been deleted for "baddouble".
143 Post contains images Klaus : True. The novelty value isn't exactly sky-high in both our recent posts...
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