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Latest Iraqi Vote  
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1061 times:

A larger than expected voter turn out, few insurgent attacks disrupt the process.

What say you . . .

Successful voting process?

Progress on the Iraqi Constitution?

Insurgency waning?

Iraqi people beginning to believe in their Democracy?


http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/15/iraq.main/index.html
http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20051011060409990001

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21495 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1050 times:

Near-Desperate invasion supporters now lowering their standards to "few insurgent attacks" already being a good sign...?

Excuse my sarcasm, but despite the positive aspects which are certainly there, I don't see much reason to be jubilant. Especially when it's not at all clear that the ultimate outcome won't be yet another misogynist sharia-based state which is ruled by religious or tribal leaders, even if the terrorists / insurgents should actually not be able to incite an all-out civil war...


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
Near-Desperate invasion supporters now lowering their standards to "few insurgent attacks" already being a good sign...?

You miss the entire point here Klaus. I didn't declare support for or against. I asked questions - your opinion of the vote - nothing more. Your entire first sentence is irrelevent and in this thread, worthless. All I did was quote the sources. You continue to demonstrate the opposite of what you profess to despise. Unfortunate. Furthermore, I don't see anywhere that there is jubliation displayed, except perhaps for the smiling faces on some Iraqi's I've seen in the news.

Your single, valid point in your post is here:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
when it's not at all clear that the ultimate outcome won't be yet another misogynist sharia-based state which is ruled by religious or tribal leaders,


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1042 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Iraqi people beginning to believe in their Democracy?

Well, I hope so, but I also hope that they do not confuse a democracy with a means to have a true voice. There are a number of political options open to countries of the world, and that in the US is probably the best, but it by no means ensures anything shy of corruption. Sorry if you all have been blinded.


User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1040 times:

I am impressed, this thread started spiraling down the toilet with the first response.

I am glad they voted, I hope it all works out for them. If only we could get people in this country as excited about voting.


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 4):
If only we could get people in this country as excited about voting.

If only we could get people in this country to understand that the right to vote means nothing more than that. Try to understand. The system is corrupt. No matter who you vote for, it does not really matter. It really is that simple. Sorry, but in some X number of years, when a liberal is in the Whitehouse, I will still feel this way.

It really sucks, and the politicians are laughing all the way to the bank with our taxes and their pensions - all for accomplishing next to nothing. This is the greatest country in the world. How come our politicians have no great ideas???????


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20751 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

I think it's really too early to tell what's happening there yet as there still seems to be a lot of Sunni opposition to the constitution. Earlier I read this article on the BBC site that had an interesting bit to it that was similar to the CNN link but worded a little differently:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4346322.stm

"If voters in three of Iraq's 18 provinces muster a two-thirds majority against the constitution, it will fail.

Official estimates suggest that in seven provinces more than two-thirds of voters did participate - including three where the majority of voters are Sunnis.

The Sunnis are dominant in four provinces, and some of their leaders believe they might have managed to block the constitution."


Voter turnout in the Kurdish north was lower than expected, which surprises me, since the Kurds were so severely oppressed under Saddam. It'll be an interesting count to watch over the next few days.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1029 times:

A good sign, but I want to see what they Iraqi do when an occupying army isn't watching over such an election. If milions come out then, I might start to think they have a chance.

People usually do what it thinks an occupying army wants it to do. The proof in the pudding will be when said army is gone from the scene.

I think after we leave, they will vote for a government, but I think it will end up being an Iran-styled Islamic government. That's what I think the legacy of this invasion will ultimately end up being. IF, and a big IF, it would be a government without support for terrorism or in stirring the pot, the way Iran does, or the way Saddam did, then I can live with that.

It's just too early to tell. But it is encouraging.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20751 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1012 times:

I usually read the IHT for a lot of my news, and the link below is the article they've posted on the election. It's a bit of a long read, and contradicts some of what was reported from other sources. Interesting closing quotes to it tho:

(The content at this link may change--usually there's an article #, not an article date in the URL. It should take you to "Iraqis vote on new constitution". There's also a link to the constitution that's being voted on in the left column of the page, if you're so interested.)

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/14/news/iraq.php

Some Iraqis drew contrasts with the election three years ago to the day, for Saddam Hussein. "I voted then, for Saddam, of course, because I was afraid," said Jabar Ahmed Ismail, 75, living on a $100-a-month pension from a lifetime as an oil pipeline repairman. "But this time, I came here by my own choice. I am not afraid anymore. I am a free man."

A Sunni, Mr. Ismail said he had voted for the constitution, despite appeals by many Sunni leaders for it to be rejected, and threats from Islamic militants to kill anybody participating in it. He said he did not really know what was in the constitution, but the fact that his opinion had been sought was enough for him to back it. "It gives me hope in God, and in my fellow men," he said. As for the insurgents, he said, they were "infidels," and added: "I don't accept them," he said. "I don't know what they want."



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1720 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1009 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Successful voting process?

The answer to that is clearly yes. We have now seen two elections with 60% +/- voter turnout. I would say the mechanics of the process are functional.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Progress on the Iraqi Constitution?

We’ll know the results in a week to ten days apparently. If it passes, we’ll have to see how the Sunnis react, and more importantly, how it’s structure and function is respected by all parties. Remember, the Soviet Union had a pretty nice constitution, but nobody followed it.

If it doesn’t pass, I think our Iraq policy is in even more trouble than it is now.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Insurgency waning?

I don't think there's any reason to believe that, and General Casey said exactly that to the Congress two weeks ago.

There were some very bad assumptions made about the strength of the insurgency in the wake of the last election because there wasn’t major violence associated with the balloting. It would be a mistake to do that again here. This insurgency is following classic tactics straight from the Che Guevara school of revolutionary war. Attack the enemy on your terms where he is weak, not on his terms where he is strong.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Iraqi people beginning to believe in their Democracy?

As I’ve said to you before, the real question is whether the Iraqi security forces “believe in their democracy” and whether they will fight for it. Two weeks ago the White House claimed there were now 80 line battalions in the Iraqi security force. That is roughly the equivalent of 8 US Army divisions. If the Iraqi forces can’t secure the country with 80 line battalions, we are still in a very bad spot. Either the White House is telling fish stories again, or these Iraqi forces are nowhere near being effective.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Some Iraqis drew contrasts with the election three years ago to the day, for Saddam Hussein. "I voted then, for Saddam, of course, because I was afraid," said Jabar Ahmed Ismail, 75, living on a $100-a-month pension from a lifetime as an oil pipeline repairman. "But this time, I came here by my own choice. I am not afraid anymore. I am a free man."

A Sunni, Mr. Ismail said he had voted for the constitution, despite appeals by many Sunni leaders for it to be rejected, and threats from Islamic militants to kill anybody participating in it. He said he did not really know what was in the constitution, but the fact that his opinion had been sought was enough for him to back it. "It gives me hope in God, and in my fellow men," he said. As for the insurgents, he said, they were "infidels," and added: "I don't accept them," he said. "I don't know what they want."

This single quote says a hell of a lot. And I don't care what Klaus says, it's not me being quoted here, it's an Iraqi Sunni who has figured it out . . . figured out that he at least has a voice . . . might not be a popular voice . . . but he has a voice. That's a good start. Hopefully there are a million or so more Mr. Ismails out there . . . .

Please pay particular attention to the last sentence quoting Mr. Ismail.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1001 times:

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 9):
If it passes, we’ll have to see how the Sunnis react, and more importantly, how it’s structure and function is respected by all parties.

Agreed . . . quote from the article:
The U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, demurred Friday when asked if he thought the draft constitution would be approved.

"We'll have to see. Now it's in the hands of the Iraqis," he told CNN's "The Situation Room."

"The draft constitution, which a few days ago could have been characterized as a Shia-Kurdish document, now has got a substantial amount of Sunni support."

In the mixed Shiite-Sunni area of Baquba about one-third of the local population had visited the polling stations by midday.


Let's hope the Iraqi Ambassador's comments are true -

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 9):
I don't think there's any reason to believe that, and General Casey said exactly that to the Congress two weeks ago.

I don't believe so either. I continue to maintain however that the majority of the insurgency are not Iraqi's - hence my continued call to seal Iraq's borders. At least give them a chance!

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 9):
Two weeks ago the White House claimed there were now 80 line battalions in the Iraqi security force. That is roughly the equivalent of 8 US Army divisions. If the Iraqi forces can’t secure the country with 80 line battalions, we are still in a very bad spot. Either the White House is telling fish stories again, or these Iraqi forces are nowhere near being effective.

Agreed. However, Eighty Line Battalions that are fresh and not experienced IMO. Trained of course by the best military force in the world, but as I've always maintained, there is no better teacher than experience. We'll see. As for the White House and Fish Stories, my friend . . . what's that old saying about statistics and damn lies??? I don't think the Iraqi forces are effective . . . they will get there, but not overnight. Eighty battalions be damned if they aren't effective.


User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1720 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 988 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
I continue to maintain however that the majority of the insurgency are not Iraqi's

Actually, it's pretty clear that's not the case. General Casey said it was less than 10% in his testimony before congress at the beginning of the month. Foreign Jihadists commit a disproportionate amount of damage because they are more likely to employ suicide bombing tactics. That gives them a high profile, but they are by no means "the majority".

Here's a link to a fairly good explanation of who's who in the Iraqi insurgency:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_insurgency.htm

Excerpt:
Foreign fighters are a small component of the insurgency and comprise a very small percentage of all detainees. Syrian, Saudi, Egyptian, Jordanian and Iranian nationals make up the majority of foreign fighters.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 979 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
It's just too early to tell. But it is encouraging.

Just a few days ago you were hoping for a Bush "failure" and thus a failure in policy that allowed these elections to even occur. So, you see how silly your remarks were earlier and how they can be perceived?

Honestly, I don't think you even understand what YOU are saying.

*Ignored* and done. LOL



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 975 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 13):
Just a few days ago you were hoping for a Bush "failure" and thus a failure in policy that allowed these elections to even occur. So, you see how silly your remarks were earlier and how they can be perceived?

God, but you're so freaking slow.

I don't see this as a success for Bush, dude. I see it as a possible success for Iraqi's, making the best out of the mess Bush created for them.

I am hoping for a Bush failure in his policies as president, as I've said a million times, I think that would be the best thing for the United States.

You may give your hero the credit for this election, CH, but I don't. I give it to the Iraqi people, who are making the best of a bad situation. I still think they end up with an Islamic goverment, but if that's their choice, then that's their choice.

You just can't seem to grasp that concept, can you?


User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1720 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 971 times:

...and we were having such a nice civil discussion there for a while....sigh.


WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 971 times:

The concept I can grasp is that they HAD elections today. And that was in part made possible by the current administration that you despise. It's a great day for the Iraqi people and their gains are all theirs. They will have many more thanks to those who make difficult and unpopular decisions.


"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 964 times:

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 12):
Actually, it's pretty clear that's not the case. General Casey said it was less than 10% in his testimony before congress at the beginning of the month. Foreign Jihadists commit a disproportionate amount of damage because they are more likely to employ suicide bombing tactics. That gives them a high profile, but they are by no means "the majority".

OK, point made . .. let me rephrase. . . the folks killing our troops appear for the most part to be foreign insurgents . . . here's a link from the local Anchorage Daily Gag . . .
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/7090168p-6995844c.html

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 13):
t a few days ago you were hoping for a Bush "failure" and thus a failure in policy that allowed these elections to even occur. So, you see how silly your remarks were earlier and how they can be perceived?

CH, you want to fuck up a thread, start your own. . . . your drivel is not welcome here . . . or anywhere else I post. Your blind following of the Republican Party and PotUS gives you little to no credibility anywhere - and makes you look like an ass. I've refrained in the past from speaking directly at you because I know you believe in what you think, but you need to get a grip on reality. Want to speak drivel go elsewhere. Want a decent conversation, please stick around.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):

Falcon my friend . . . STFU.  biggrin  Sometimes, SOMETIMES, silence is golden. He's not worth the verbiage . . . .


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 963 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 16):
The concept I can grasp is that they HAD elections today. And that was in part made possible by the current administration that you despise.

The means don't justify the end, CH. We went to war under false pretenses-more than one, and they were part of the Lie of The Month for about a year-so as far as I'm concerned, the Iraqi people have turned a war that they didn't ask for, and didn't want, into a positive, DESPITE the fuck-ups of this administration.

And yes, I despise this administration. I find nothing redeeming about it.

Again, I see this as a victory for the Iraqi people, not for George W. Bush.


Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 16):
It's a great day for the Iraqi people and their gains are all theirs.

Bull. You're out here trying to make me agree the gain is all George W. Bush's. It's not.

In the end, the gain will be an Islamic government. You think THAT is what your hero wanted? I doubt it.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 16):
They will have many more thanks to those who make difficult and unpopular decisions.

Translation: Iraq, you fucking owe us for here to eternity, just like Europe does.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 958 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
Sometimes, SOMETIMES, silence is golden.

I thought silence was a dish best served cold, ANC.

Oh, my bad...wrong Klingon Proverb.  Big grin


User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 932 times:

ANCFlyer, my post was indeed an intrusion on a good topic. You can describe it as overflow from another post(s). So I offer an apology. Mea culpa.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
Your blind following of the Republican Party and PotUS gives you little to no credibility anywhere

Blind following? No Sir. I would not agree with that statement. I have been critical in the past and will continue when warranted.

Now...back to the topic and your questions. The Iraqi people have their appetite whetted for this thing we call free and open elections. Who wouldn't once they experience it? I am not surprised that the turnout is as high as it is.

Nice to vote...freely.



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 925 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 20):
. I would not agree with that statement.

Doesn't mean it isn't true, CH-and that from someone who is solidly conservative, and someone you can't easily call a traitor, as you did me. So I'm not surprised you don't agree, but he's right on the money.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 20):
Nice to vote...freely.

When an occupying army isn't there, with assult weapons in hand, then I'll share that sentiment. It isn't a free vote, imho, when you have an invading army in your presence.


User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 917 times:

No one held those voters at gunpoint to vote Falcon. As soon as we are out of Iraq and the Iraqis can handle it on their own is something I want to see. But not a moment too soon. This vote is headed in the right direction. That I know you will agree.


"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 913 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 20):
So I offer an apology. Mea culpa.

No sweat. I respect someone that believes in their convictions. What I respect more is a person that has an open mind and can continue to maintain the same convictions.

If you open your mind you'll find A-Net a valuable tool . . . there are of course exceptions . . .

CAUTION: FOR SATX: ARROGANT EXAMPLE ABOUT TO BE POSTEDl:

Beware of the posts from certain unnammed members about 757s, cornfields, and the like, lest they sour your senses.

 bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineZeekiel From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 905 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Trained of course by the best military force in the world, but as I've always maintained, there is no better teacher than experience.

Of course. That's why it's always a preference to have a battle hardened unit to deal with the issues rather than green troops who might be skilled and well trained but have no test or benchmark in the mix.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 22):
This vote is headed in the right direction.

The vote. Yes

What the vote stands for? Well we just have to wait and see what the factional elements have to say after the vote. There is going to be a plethora of arguments to wade through in order to get to the final result of complete harmony.

The Kurdish idea of federalization in three states seemed like a good idea to me at the beginning but you have the problem of the Sunni element missing out on the mineral chocolate of oil. And also issues with Turkey dealing with Kurdish independence and how it would influence matter in their neck of the woods.

Cheers

Zeekiel


25 Post contains links AeroWesty : While you were posting this, I happened to be reading up on this from the Kurdish perspective, courtesy of an article from the Daily Star newspaper o
26 Mir : This raises a red flag for me. It's great that they can vote, and vote without being killed (this is certainly progress, though they still haven't ma
27 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Why should this you. It happens all the time in this country . . . people vote the party line . . . . often times, they don't care why or who, just v
28 Falcon84 : I beg to differ, CH. The very fact an invading army is in ther midst, in my mind, no matter where that army is from, means they're voting at gunpoint
29 TPASXM787 : Exactly. I have friends that just vote down the line...they don't even know anything about policy/etc and I think this is the majority of people in t
30 Post contains images TedTAce : NO I Hope If we could only make it so people didn't have to wait over 8 hours to vote write in. Were's fucked.. It's time to figure out how to divide
31 AeroWesty : I hope you read the entire article at the IHT before you posted, if you didn't, that's okay, but it would have helped to have put things into perspec
32 WhiteHatter : Can't we put this thread on ice for a week? It really does need some qualification before anyone can answer. It is just not possible to make a seriou
33 AeroWesty : I actually support this thread being here, so we can talk about the issues that are being voted on and the dynamics of the populace who voted, then w
34 Dan-Air : Yeah, yeah, Iraq has "turned the corner"...again. How many more of these hurried "democracy" exercises will be staged, with Bushco immediately hailing
35 L-188 : Negative. They will condinue until we kill them all.
36 Dan-Air : One of the great fallacies of this conflict exposed yet again. There is no finite number of insurgents that need to be rooted out and eliminated, and
37 ANCFlyer : Actually, I think the attacks will continue even after we're gone. Unless the Iraqi police take charge and fight back. No we won't be there forever,
38 Dan-Air : To be naive would have been to believe Rumsfeld and the PNAC gang that assured the country we'd be there for six months at most.
39 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Quite agree, anything coming out of Dumsfeld's cesspool is going to be as soon as he says it. Remember, "Fight it on the Cheap".
40 11Bravo : That is absolutely spot-on. Anyone who still thinks Iraq is a military problem with a military solution needs to put down the Budweiser, turn off the
41 DL021 : Without reading past post 4 or 5 I'll just weigh in. Iraqis have been exercising their rights and doing so in the face of dangers you or I would find
42 Post contains links and images Dan-Air : Rah rah! Yea democracy!    Take off the blinders for a second and think about what we are really witnessing: a state bordering on civil war, revert
43 CaptOveur : Thank you General Armchair. A lot of people wiser than either of us will disagree. It is hard to say just how much terrorism this war has actually st
44 Dan-Air : From my armchair I can tell you - and it's just my opinion, I could be wrong - this war in Iraq has exacerbated the cause of Islamic Jihad. It has do
45 DL021 : You have issues with people growing into democracy? Isn't that where we were during the worst parts of the revolutionary war? I wonder if France felt
46 Post contains images DrDeke : Yep. And isn't it funny how the same guys who approve of sending folks to kill and die in Iraq on the basis of a made-up theory with no evidence to s
47 11Bravo : I can see this thread has run its course now with the last two posts comparing the war in Iraq with two things wholly and completely unrelated and irr
48 Post contains images Dan-Air : I could care less. Them do it on their dime. Oh I get it - so Iraq falling into civil war is what was expected and planned for by the architects of t
49 DL021 : Do what? That's out from left field..... Hey! A pun! Good one.... I'd say that evolution and the American Revolution can both be compared to the curr
50 11Bravo : I assume here you're comparing "natural" biological evolution with human political development. There is nothing natural or intrinsic about political
51 Falcon84 : No, I just have issues with them being invaded and forced into it, Ian. That's all. And, in the end, I think they're choose a less democratic form of
52 Post contains links WhiteHatter : VOTE OVERVIEW 78% back charter, 21% reject 63% turnout Majorities in 15 out of 18 provinces vote "Yes" "No" vote majorities in two provinces - 96% rej
53 Jetjack74 : Islamic governments are based on theorcracy, it just depends on how far they go. I think that Iraqi government will end up more like Turkey. It still
54 ANCFlyer : Congratulations to the Iraqi people. Of those that voted, an overwhelming majority chose in favor of the new Constitution. That is indeed good news. W
55 Post contains images Jetjack74 : Well, hopefully, the allureof getting involved in the politiccal process will sway attention away from the insurgency. The sunni's will have the oppo
56 WhiteHatter : Who can tell? After all, democracy is not something Iraqis have much experience of. The biggest problem is that insurgents will try and fan the flame
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