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How The Dems Can Win In '08  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Not going to get into specifics of '06 and '08, but the Dems have a chance to take the Senate in '06, cut their deficit in the House in '06, and have a better-than-even chance to win the Presidency in '08, especially if our current sad state continues, and especially if these oft-rumored indictments against many of the Presidents' men come down.

Here's a few simple thing they can and should do, to cut into the GOP stranglehold on Washington:

1. Disavow the Hollywood establishment. Just stay clear of those clowns, and their ultra-left views. Tell them flat-out: you will not be given a role in the Democratic party. Your help as individuals is welcome, like it would be from any American, but, as an industry, we are divorcing ourselves from you. Those people, be they on the left or right, live in a fantasy existence, and should be ignored at all costs.

2. Commit to seeing Iraq through till Iraq can support itself. That isn't a popular view among many on the far left ot liberalism, but it is the reality, and it should be a centerpiece of the Democratic strategy.

3. Commit to being a party that will focus on fiscal responsibiilty in Washington. After 8 years (or 6 in '06), of the "Tax Cut and Spend" conservatives, who have doled out more pork than there are pigs in the world, and after all these years of a president who never met a spending bill he didn't like or even threaten to veto, it's time to rein in this out-of-control spending.

4. Commit to rebuilding our long-standing ties and friendships in Europe and among other traditional allies. That doesn't mean they control our policies, but they will be consulted, not steamrolled, on issues that affect them as well as us.

5. Commit to a REAL policy of energy independence, not one, Like Mr. Bush has put forth, that is heavy on just simply building more oil refineries, drilling for more oil, and depending on "nuculear" energy, but on one that truly looks for renewable sources of energy that will make us free from oil, and the politics and conflicts that surround it. Make it our "moonshot" issue of the next decade.

I'm sure others can come up with some ideas as well. I put this out after my dad, my brother and I were discussing politics the other day.

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4521 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

I don't think even that will honestly win the presidency for Dems in 08.

Honestly, the Republicans have just become too damn good at propaganda. No matter what the Dems try, I truly believe the republicans will win again in 2008.


User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Was this in some sort of dream of yours last night?

Keep dreaming.

Or is it some sort of nightmare????  Wow!



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 2):
Was this in some sort of dream of yours last night?

Keep dreaming.

Or is it some sort of nightmare????

What terribly insightful political commentary. You do realize that politics is a cyclical game, do you not?


User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
1. Disavow the Hollywood establishment

 checkmark 

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
2. Commit to seeing Iraq through till Iraq can support itself.

 checkmark 

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
3. Commit to being a party that will focus on fiscal responsibiilty in Washington

 checkmark 

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
. Commit to rebuilding our long-standing ties and friendships in Europe

 checkmark 

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
5. Commit to a REAL policy of energy independence,

 checkmark 

6. Commit to real reform of the major entitlement systems (medicare, medicaid, social security) which use up an ever larger proportion of total government spending and are crowding out discretionary spending (or increasing deficits).

7. Commit to a real tax reform which would eliminate many special interest deductions

8. Commit to real immigration reform (it is a joke that there are allegedly currently more illegal than legal immigrants in the US)


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4521 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

Besides, the American public isn't interested in "rebuilding ties" and all that other "mushy spineless stuff", they wanna hear "Let's Get 'Em, we're the best, if you aint with us you're against us, kill terrorists, destroy evildoers, smoke 'em out!!!"

The republicans know this...and that's what they'll be running on in 08, the anti-terrorist, "we're invincible with a republican president" mentality, the scare-mongering and everything else that worked so damn well for them in 2004. Bet on it, the Rs will run on a National Security platform that will practically hand the white house to them on a silver platter for the next 8 years.


A slight majority of americans aren't interested in soft politics, they are interested in self-preservation, war, and destroying anyone that isn't just like us. Unfortunately, that slight majority, is all it takes to win the presidency.

And if Hillary wins the nomination in 08, us Dems might as well forfeit altogether. Nothing would bring out non-voting republicans to the polling stations than the thought of another president with the last name of Clinton. Hillary would be a godsend to the republicans.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

Great ideas. In short what you're advocating is that they stop being democrats. Welcome to the Republican Party!

User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 3):
You do realize that politics is a cyclical game, do you not?

Indeed I do. And it's not time for the Democrats to do anything except fix the mess in their own party.

Dream on fellas.  bigthumbsup 



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4521 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 7):
Dream on fellas

I wish I could argue with you, being a democrat myself, and I wish I could disagree. But I have to admit, your party is at the top of their game, I don't think we can win for a long time yet, not without a miracle.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 2):
Was this in some sort of dream of yours last night?

Keep dreaming.

Can you take a break from the Falcon Bash for a thread? Please?

Falcon, good ideas, for the most part.

I agree completely with #1. I can't abide by the whoring out of the Hollyweed crowd, on either side. . . . but IMHO, it's more prevelent on the democratic side.

I agree on the energy independence . . . especially in regards to finding alternative forms of energy. Where you mention building more refineries, I agree - but I would make part of the permit process the requirement that any new refinery/facility built include a facility therein that is focused on finding newer, cleaner, forms of energy. One reason - beyond the $$$ - the oil companies are reluctant to do so is that they know they will have to change a world wide paradigm - the use of petroleum products to move everything. . . planes, trucks, cars, trains, ships. . . that won't happen in a year or in ten years, but we had better start some serious and concentrated efforts along those lines . . . better start it now. Soon, no one will be able to afford diesel, gasoline, JP4, etc. And the supply will continue to run shot.

Lastly, #2. Like it or not. Agree or otherwise. This is THE only option. See Iraq through to the end. Period. Change some of the direction it's moving perhaps . . . begin to focus on honest, hard training for the Iraqi military and police. Tell the Iraqi government (don't ask) that in XX amount of time, the US will get out of the police business in Iraq - so you better listen and listen hard - take this training seriously . . . . soon, you'll be covering your own street corner. A similar tack with the Iraqi military, but not one so stringent. Afterall, we put them into this scenario. That said: IMO (again) currently there is NO incentive for them to take responsibility for themselves . . . the US is there, and will handle whatever situation arises, so why should the Iraqi police and military take it seriously. . .

Good Post Falcon.


User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2076 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 8):
But I have to admit, your party is at the top of their game, I don't think we can win for a long time yet, not without a miracle.

And a miracle could happen. The miracle is to move away from the left leaning liberals like Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer and become more mainstream and offer the American public ideas that can be built upon and not ideas that ultimately destroy the backbone and moral fiber of this country.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Can you take a break from the Falcon Bash for a thread? Please?

No! It was too good to pass up!

LOL

Good luck in 2008, you sure as hell are going to need it.

[Edited 2005-10-23 18:46:07]


"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
See Iraq through to the end. Period

I agree, but it was dirty pool used by Bush43. He started the war, and then used the notion that we can't possibly change horses in midstream as one of his major election arguments in 2004.


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

Good post, Falcon...

The best thing the Dems can do is move to the center, and develop the image of the moderate to conservative members in the party so that they can be in a position to run for high office. The American people are fed up with northeastern liberals and SF Bay area/Hollyweird liberals and their extreme agendas. A more moderate/cons. Dem. will have a lot of appeal vs. the likes of Santorum, Brownback, et. al.

Depending on who actually runs in '08, I just may not even cast a vote for any of the Presidential candidates...vote for the state offices and stop there.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2022 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 5):
Besides, the American public isn't interested in "rebuilding ties" and all that other "mushy spineless stuff", they wanna hear "Let's Get 'Em, we're the best, if you aint with us you're against us, kill terrorists, destroy evildoers, smoke 'em out!!!"

Actually, with the reality of what Iraq has become, a majority don't think like that anymore, my friend. I can't tell if you're supporting that line of thinking, or being dismissive of it, but all it's gotten us is a black eye in Iraq, loss of prestige in the world, and a distrust of our good name around the globe. That may satisfy those who want to act like they have big balls, but all it will do is get more Americans killed.

Quoting Pope (Reply 6):
Great ideas. In short what you're advocating is that they stop being democrats. Welcome to the Republican Party!

Right, Pope. Show me where the GOP has been fiscally responsible this last 6 years, dude? Oh, sorry, that ruins the image.

And when did the GOP want to be seen as a good world citizen, and as one our allies and freinds can trust? I don't see that.

And when has the Oilmen, POTUS, and VPOTUS, ever said such things about energy independence. Their ideas are "more oil", and that's as far as it goes.

No, I'm not advocating they be Republicans. Everything I've put in there, save #1, is the anthesis of what the GOP is today, Pope.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 10):
Good luck in 2008, you sure as hell are going to need it.

If these indictments come down this week, and if Iraq keeps being a problem, your party will need it, dude. But, keep the blinders on.


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 5):
Besides, the American public isn't interested in "rebuilding ties" and all that other "mushy spineless stuff", they wanna hear "Let's Get 'Em, we're the best, if you aint with us you're against us, kill terrorists, destroy evildoers, smoke 'em out!!!"

I'm part of the American public and I don't want to hear any of that crappy propaganda...

The Republicans will eventually destroy themselves, the Democrats will come back, and it will repeat...it's just the way things go. Damn party lines...


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4521 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
Depending on who actually runs in '08, I just may not even cast a vote for any of the Presidential candidates...vote for the state offices and stop there.

You really should cast a vote.


Anyway, for 2008 I see the greatest potential of Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and Al Gore going after the nomination. If that's the case, I think honestly the best chance still lies with John Kerry. Hillary is too polarizing, Gore is still an ongoing joke, Kerry is damaged, but not destroyed, and might be able to rebuild his image, and his chances.

It's too bad Obama doesn't have enough experience, he's a motivational speaker in the league of Bill Clinton and could really move the masses. But we won't see him as a presidential candidate for a long time, if ever.

We need someone that can move people in a positive way. Republicans move people effectively by reminding them of the threats against us and playing on their perceived strengths against those threats. We dems need to figure out our strengths and then not only play on them but sell them as effectively as the repubs...no easy task. No offense to republicans on the forum, but from what I've seen, R's are more willing to slice throats to get what they want in the polical world...Dems aren't as agressive, we back down, and that's why we lose.


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4521 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2006 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Actually, with the reality of what Iraq has become, a majority don't think like that anymore, my friend. I can't tell if you're supporting that line of thinking, or being dismissive of it, but all it's gotten us is a black eye in Iraq, loss of prestige in the world, and a distrust of our good name around the globe. That may satisfy those who want to act like they have big balls, but all it will do is get more Americans killed.

That's what we thought at the end of 2004, was that the disaster that Iraq was becoming would be enough to help give credibility to the Dems enough for us to take back the country. Clearly it wasnt enough, and clearly people DO still think that way. It's just the sad truth.

And i don't support that line of thinking, I quite simply feel defeated by it. I had high hopes for winning last year's election and saw them dashed. Basically, I've had a wake up call...the Republicans are just too damn good at what they do, they can sell propaganda to the american public so easily it's downright scary, the dems from what i see are nowhere near as effective as selling their platform, and this saddens me.

I want a democratic win in 2008 just as badly as you do, Alpha1, I just have accepted that we are not on our game and not likely to win this one either...not when so many people still stand behind the line of thinking that swept bush into the white house for a second time. People have to wake up, do you really think that will happen?

These indictments will mean nothing, they won't stick to the president. The only thing that will stick to bush at this point is if he has an affair. then the public will crucify him. but a little thing like rushing us into war on bad intelligence? Meh, small potatoes, just as long as W isn't gettin a BJ!

Our priorities are so backwards in this country its embarrassing. No wonder why the world laughs at us.


User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1990 times:

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 4):
Commit to real reform of the major entitlement systems (medicare, medicaid, social security) which use up an ever larger proportion of total government spending and are crowding out discretionary spending (or increasing deficits).

HAJFlyer, I do hope you include as well corporate welfare, including farm subsidies, sweetheart no-bid contracts, the sluice of money going to defense contractors and all that as well. That is beginning to eat up an even greater increase in our national debt, as well as corrupting and perverting capitalism.

Farmers, defense contractors, and other corporate welfare kingpins have to stop sucking at the government tit as much as the more traditional welfare spongers. It is time to abolish the entire agriculture dept and bring ag subsidies to farmers and rancher to, um zero dollars. If they can't compete, well let them do something else. That's capitalism.

In addition, I believe that the Dems should *not* be socially conservative, but socially libertarian, and point out the hypocricy of the morality socialists' party of so-called less government passing laws to restrict whom you can marry, when you can die, what you can listen to, watch, or jerk off to - I can go on and on.



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

Well lets look at this list.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
1. Disavow the Hollywood establishment. Just stay clear of those clowns, and their ultra-left views. Tell them flat-out: you will not be given a role in the Democratic party. Your help as individuals is welcome, like it would be from any American, but, as an industry, we are divorcing ourselves from you. Those people, be they on the left or right, live in a fantasy existence, and should be ignored at all costs.

That isn't the question, the question is will Hollywood disavow the democrats. Somehow if Babs, shows up and tells Howie Dean that she wants to do a fundraiser, I don't think he is going to say no.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
2. Commit to seeing Iraq through till Iraq can support itself. That isn't a popular view among many on the far left ot liberalism, but it is the reality, and it should be a centerpiece of the Democratic strategy.

This is the exact policy that G.W. is following now. Fight for the Iraqi people until they can fight for themselves.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
3. Commit to being a party that will focus on fiscal responsibiilty in Washington. After 8 years (or 6 in '06), of the "Tax Cut and Spend" conservatives, who have doled out more pork than there are pigs in the world, and after all these years of a president who never met a spending bill he didn't like or even threaten to veto, it's time to rein in this out-of-control spending.

This is one area I have been disapointed with GW. However this comment does read right out of Reagans playbook.

And actually he has threatened to veto this years defense bill... so there is one.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
4. Commit to rebuilding our long-standing ties and friendships in Europe and among other traditional allies. That doesn't mean they control our policies, but they will be consulted, not steamrolled, on issues that affect them as well as us.

Unfortunately the last administration didn't realize that comment didn't mean let other countries and international groups control our policies. That is one reason why Gore lost that election. And the right can make yardage in an election with this shift.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
5. Commit to a REAL policy of energy independence, not one, Like Mr. Bush has put forth, that is heavy on just simply building more oil refineries, drilling for more oil, and depending on "nuculear" energy, but on one that truly looks for renewable sources of energy that will make us free from oil, and the politics and conflicts that surround it. Make it our "moonshot" issue of the next decade.

Sorry, but who signed the current energy bill into law? Bush. You should see all of the wing/solar projects that are on the drawing board. BTW anybody else consider it hilarious that no less then the Kennedy's is fighting a wind geration project on Martha's Vinyard because it would "destroy" his views?

Quoting Pope (Reply 6):
Great ideas. In short what you're advocating is that they stop being democrats. Welcome to the Republican Party!

Well look at the bright side, maybe the democrats are tring to get themselves back to the party of Trumman. Instead of the one of the liberal left that all those pot smoking hippies in the 1960's made it.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJunketeer From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 10 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

I don't like to intrude on private grief (being neither American nor a Democrat) and I suppose that most of your suggestions are pretty sensible, EXCEPT #5:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
5. Commit to a REAL policy of energy independence, not one, Like Mr. Bush has put forth, that is heavy on just simply building more oil refineries, drilling for more oil, and depending on "nuculear" energy, but on one that truly looks for renewable sources of energy that will make us free from oil, and the politics and conflicts that surround it. Make it our "moonshot" issue of the next decade.

I like the irony of that proposal appearing on, um, AIRLINERS.net. I trust the successful candidate with this platform will be first aboard the 787 that's fuelled by prune juice.  Wink


User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4283 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1965 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
their deficit in the House in '06

Believe it or not, Texas is actually going to help cut the Dems' House deficit by at least two and up to four. And this year's vote we actually have the ability to do defeat a conservative measure that has passed in many states during the last four years. Thought you might like to know  Smile

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineTPASXM787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1961 times:

I think the Dems need to move back towards the middle to win in 08. Clinton was a moderate, I think that the Dems have become too extreme liberal. I think that someone like Hillary is too liberal to take the win in 08. I don't think that people have forgotten how she was before her recent move towards the center (real or not). I think that with someone like Dean as the DNC leader, that is starting off the party too liberally.

All that being said, the Reps may do enough on their own to sufficiently bury themselves and the Dems might not have to do a damn thing.



This is the Last Stop.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days ago) and read 1945 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Just stay clear of those clowns, and their ultra-left views.

What exactly ARE these supposed ultra-left views that Hollywood is criticized of having, and how are they any different from the views that a majority of Dems have?

Babs Streisand's views ultra left? The woman is probably to the right of many a Dem. Michael Moore? Obnoxious as he may be, most of his contentions propounded in that F9-11 film were proven by independent analyses to be correct. Meryl Streep who thinks that the Government should not censor free speech? Alec Baldwin who yammers stupidly on how he would leave the US if GWB won? The first 3 are hardly ultra-leftist; the last is just a moron.

The reality is that the GOP propagandist machine has done an excellent job in convincing you and everyone else that the Hollywood celebs who support Dems are a bunch of anti-American fiends out to destroy the world.

The Dems will only win if they stop being a party that stands for nothing, and if they have ideas that show that they stand for fiscal responsibility, freedom from government obstrusiveness, and if they present ideas in plain english, rather than in political speak.


User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days ago) and read 1942 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
1. Disavow the Hollywood establishment. Just stay clear of those clowns, and their ultra-left views.

They'd probably like to but they can't for two reasons, money, and the money draw that these people are to the democratic faithful.

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 4):
6. Commit to real reform of the major entitlement systems (medicare, medicaid, social security) which use up an ever larger proportion of total government spending and are crowding out discretionary spending (or increasing deficits).

What? The democratic party is the party that gave us these boondoggles. They are also the party that has stymied any attempt to enact any kind of reform that would actually fix the problems over the years. They don't have a leg to stand on here.

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 4):
8. Commit to real immigration reform

From the party that gave us motor voter? Don't think so.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
I agree on the energy independence . . . especially in regards to finding alternative forms of energy.

And the rest of America will embrace these as well, as soon as there is a company that can provide a safe, reliable, and economically affordable form of alternative energy. Until then oil rules and we need to find some more in our own backyard.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Lastly, #2. Like it or not. Agree or otherwise. This is THE only option. See Iraq through to the end. Period. Change some of the direction it's moving perhaps . . . begin to focus on honest, hard training for the Iraqi military and police. Tell the Iraqi government (don't ask) that in XX amount of time, the US will get out of the police business in Iraq - so you better listen and listen hard - take this training seriously . . . . soon, you'll be covering your own street corner.

Well there's a contradiction in terms. We'll stick it out till the end as long as the end is in XX amount of time. I'll lay you 1000 to 1 odds that as soon as you say we'll leave in XX amount of time it will get as quiet as a tomb in Iraq. The day after we're gone I want you to give me 10,000 to one odds that all hell will break loose.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
4. Commit to rebuilding our long-standing ties and friendships in Europe and among other traditional allies. That doesn't mean they control our policies, but they will be consulted, not steamrolled, on issues that affect them as well as us.

I'll say again, who gives a flying flip what the French and Germans think? How much American blood was spilled in the past 100 years over those two countries? Who rebuilt them after not one but two world wars? If they don't like the way we conduct business, oh well. They would like nothing better than to see our country as one big agrarian state with no manufacturering or military capability. That is there dream.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days ago) and read 1929 times:

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 23):
I'll say again, who gives a flying flip what the French and Germans think?

So, Little Buddy, you're saying America should just do whatever the fuck it wants, and to hell with the rest of the world?

Gee, good one! If you didn't notice, Little Buddy, that's what has gotten us into this mess-that the world is somehow YankeeCentrist, that we shouldn't care what the rest of the world thinks, even if it might affect them.

The Ugly American personified? We don't run this planet, Little Buddy, and we should care what our longstanding friends and Allies do.

Your view is the reason why the U.S. is so hated, and no more safe than it was 4 years ago. My pity to you for such uncultured, ignorant nonsense.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 23):
And the rest of America will embrace these as well, as soon as there is a company that can provide a safe, reliable, and economically affordable form of alternative energy. Until then oil rules and we need to find some more in our own backyard.

Typical short-term thinking, Little Buddy. I'm looking longer term, and the sooner we make a serious committment to shed oil, the better we are as a nation. But you don't see that, so you don't have a clue, I guess.

Thanks for the right wing manure, though, Little Buddy.


25 PROSA : I'm not sure that committing to see Iraq through to the end is either necessary or advisable for the Democratic Party. While it's fun to make jokes ab
26 ANCFlyer : Agreed . . . . UNTIL we are out of viable oil sources or until no one can afford to fuel up any longer. No it's not. We need to let the Iraqi police
27 Gilligan : I continue to say what I have said all along. We should do what is in our best interest. If the French and Germans, as well as the Russians and Chine
28 Thumper3181 : WOW. Falcon you surprise me. I never took you for a conservative Democrat/Liberal Republican. Well, welcome to the club. For the most part I agree wit
29 ANCFlyer : Problem with your commentary here Thumper is it's not JUST the American public that consumes petroleum. China is using oil at an incredible rate. Eve
30 Thumper3181 : But I have. Rather than post links to all sorts of articles, I humble suggest you do some searches on shale oil, and coal gasification. You will see
31 Gilligan : Agreed, when they are ready which isn't yet. They have to overcome years of submission sort of like a convict coming out after a long stretch has to
32 Post contains images ANCFlyer : a) Not enough. b) Not at all IMHO. c) We are - contrary to news reports - still the lead in this offensive operation. We may give credit to the Iraqi
33 Gilligan : I understand and agree and to some extent I think that is happening. I think we have officers assigned to Iraqi forces and sooner or later the balanc
34 Seb146 : How can the Dems win on '08? A hostile takeover of Diebold..... GO CANUCKS!!
35 ANCFlyer : Several, including one's I wrote regarding the length of time it took for a certain thirteen colonies to get their constitution together way back whe
36 Texdravid : Unfortunately, I do not think that the Dems have to do ANYTHING to win the presidency in 2008, given the sad state of affairs in the Republican party.
37 Post contains images Gilligan : Agreed.
38 Scamp : I personally think there is a good chance for the Dems, with Falcon's ideas coming to play. Let's face it, many Americans are facing the fact that Bus
39 Glydrflyr : Since the basic premise of this thread was what the Dems can do to win in '08, I'd like to join this free-for-all. The Dems have been subject to serio
40 Post contains images Halls120 : The only point I don't agree with. Our allies are currently consulted on issues that affect them, and they aren't steamrolled - unless they take posi
41 Falcon84 : I disagree. We HAVE to make a committment to Iraq, or else our name, already shit around the world thanks to Mr. Bush and his hangers' on, will be no
42 Aerokiwi : A persepctive from abroad... Dear Democrats, stop putting wealthy, aloof, totally uninspiring candidates up for President. First Gore, then Kerry. Lea
43 Stirling : And to think I once I had some amount of respect for that pant-load. Thought he was a good Southern-Democrat, not like the Banshee-Democrats we have
44 Kevi747 : Why can't Americans get fed up with both of these self-serving parties and start a new one? It's really tiring how on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE there is a Re
45 Post contains images Pope : I've put this together. Falcon84 is the antichrist. In this thread he's talking about strategy for winning the WhiteHouse in 2008 and in another threa
46 Jaysit : Anyone who thinks that Hillary is an "extreme liberal" (whatever the hell that means) is clueless as to her voting record and her stance on issues in
47 Matt D : Why can't Americans get fed up with both of these self-serving parties and start a new one? It's really tiring how on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE there is a Re
48 Pope : Jay, Don't you think that her move towards the middle will leave her open for attacks from the left? The Democrats have traditionally fallen into the
49 ANCFlyer : While I agree on both posts here, I have to say Falcon, there must be a line. When does the US stop worrying about apeasing everyone else, and start
50 Jaysit : Personally I think that the next few years could allow the Dems to re-establish themselves as a modern party with a view to the future. Its time for t
51 Mrniji : The worst for the democrats would be if Hillary runs
52 Slider : It'll never happen- too much glitz, flash and CASH. Great post overall, Falcon, and I don't disagree with many of the points, but personally am so cy
53 Adam T. : With regards to the International relations issue.......I don't think it's necessarily the fact that the USA should bend over backwards to give all it
54 Jwenting : They'll just have to buy even more votes and corrupt even more officials on election boards than they did in 2000 and 2004. Or else they have to fire
55 Halls120 : Sen. Clinton is most certainly voting and acting like a middle of the road democrat. Her strategy in that regard is nothing short of brilliant. Wheth
56 Dan-Air : Ding ding! We have a winner. But you need to face the fact that with the deficits this country is currently running that "lower taxes" ain't gonna ha
57 MidnightMike : Falcon Good Post!!! Here are my comments: That would be nice, many of the name Democrats are deeply in bed with the Hollywood elite, only a Joe Liberm
58 Post contains images Gilligan : Yes. The alternative is to let them dictate to us, is that what you would rather see? And for the better part of those 60 years the reason we were se
59 Slider : There you go again. Lower taxes don't and haven't created the problem--exorbitant runaway government SPENDING has! John Maynard Keynes isn't the only
60 Jaysit : As Paul Hackett said "The Dems are addicted to failure." Even after its been shown that Emperor George has no clothes, AQ is busy blowing things up an
61 Falcon84 : Then Gilligan, you make this nation no better than the Third Reich, the Soviet Union, and a host of evil nations throughout the history of mankind. I
62 Halls120 : What we need is Cspan or some other nonpartisan network to do an in depth expose of just how the federal government spends it's money. If people took
63 Slider : I think people KNOW, they just re-elect and re-elect. After all, pork is bad unless it's for your district, right? Hence, the vicious cycle. I harbor
64 Halls120 : I wish that were the case, but I'm not sure that it is. I think voters all think it is the other guy padding the budget with pork , not their represe
65 Slider : True- which goes back to ignorance combined with apathy. Hell, every newspaper I've ever picked up always has a section that shows what elected reps
66 Gilligan : What a bunch of garbage. The Third Reich, i.e. Hitler, believed that any nation that did not expand its borders was doomed. The Soviet Union believed
67 B757300 : Democrats tried this in 2004 with Kerry and his "Global Test". Americans do not want to suck up to France and the U.N. so running on a pro-Europe pla
68 Logan22L : I've got to hand it to you B757300, you have a knack for calmly and cooly pissing into people's beer. That may make you look smart, and no doubt you
69 GuitrThree : Sorry to join in late Falcon, but I've been busy lately.. Good post.. Continuing Iraq until the end, stopping this out of control spending, and saying
70 Logan22L : Damn, nice post GuitrThree. I have a few things to discuss, but all in all, not bad. As a extreme leftist, I have no issue at all with Christmas, Eas
71 SFOMEX : Good post Falcon, but you miss an important point. If the Dems really want to win again, they must move a little to the right on social issues. Don't
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