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Of Cruise Ships And Pirates  
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Guess it's time to start sending gunboats with cruise ships . . . of course, I don't know why anyone would want to get into these waters anyway, adventure notwithstanding . . . .



http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/11/05/somalia.pirates/index.html


And once again, Airliners totally relevent, absolutely similar, dead on accurate duplicate thread possibilities . . . . if this isn't a crock of  redflag :

Berlusconi: Flip... And Now Flop by Aloges 2005-10-30 02:07:38
BOA- Bands Of America by Ffis34 2005-11-01 22:05:48
Beavis And Butthead On Comedy Central by AGM114L 2005-11-03 01:09:56
Guys: Be Careful Of What You Wish For by Matt D 2005-11-03 20:39:20
Cruise Lines To Return To New Orleans by MSYtristar 2005-10-27 03:31:27


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37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3772 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2410 times:

Maybe people shouldn't go on luxury cruises in parts of the world where the most reliable authority is the World Food Programme?

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

Quote:
A luxury cruise line will re-evaluate whether to offer future cruises off the coast of Somalia after pirates attempted to attack one of its ships early Saturday.

Ya think?!?

A "guy I know" sailed around the world for a couple of years, and carried his own RPG's for just this occasion. This stuff happens a lot more often than the masses are aware of.

Why in the hell would rich people want to cruise off of Somalia anyway? *Cue the third world activists*

BAB



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Ship owners can actually own a bit of military hardware for selfdefense. I also knew some people, who had automatic weapons on board of their yachts when cruising in dangerous waters (Sulu sea, coast of Somalia and Colombia etc.). They only need to have a gun safe on board, which will be sealed by the local customs authorities whenever they enter a port.

Jan


User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2354 times:

I've been on that ship and I talked to the crew about pirates and what not. They say it happens a couple times a year, mostly in S.E. Asia.

They actually train the crew and are ready for things like that. On various locations throughout the boat they have massive water cannons that can spray boats that try to get too close. They just hit the attackers with huge gets of water when they try and board.

They also have guns if push comes to shove.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

The money quote:

"The cruise ship eventually outran the pirates' boats."

Okay, I looked up the speed of the cruise ship, and it's 18 knots, or just a tad under 21MPH. What were the pirates using, canoes?!?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

I heard on the news that they used a concussion canon to drive the pirates away. That's the same thing you use to scare away birds. Just a big bang, no concussion. If there was a concussion, they would've fawked themselves up, too  Smile Maybe the pirates heard the bang, and thought the cruise ship was packing some 16-inchers.  Big grin It's the Indy version of Under Siege  rotfl 

BAB



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Okay, I looked up the speed of the cruise ship, and it's 18 knots, or just a tad under 21MPH. What were the pirates using, canoes?!?

I'm pretty sure no speedboat can compete with a cruise ship on sustained speed...


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2276 times:

There have been some fantastic articles about the threat of piracy/sea terrorism in the 21st century.

If terrorists ever hijacked a massive oil tanker and scuttled it in certain strategic waterways, the world economy would be doomed.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2251 times:

Does anyone know what the rules of the sea are regarding having weapons on board a cruise ship to repel such an attack?

User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

Read "Looking for a Ship" by John McPhee. He deals with this topic among others. He is a very good writer of non-fiction. I'd recommend anything he writes.

My nephew is an officer on container ships - "Master, United States Motor or Steam Vessels of any gross tons upon oceans." He said it is a serious problem in southeast Asia and that entire ships have been taken and either scrapped or modified enough to be resold.

It is likely that such an event could only be done with the cooperation of a nation in the region.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Here's the Ship Specs page . . .

http://www.seabourn.com/OurShips/Shi...s.asp?Main=OurShips&Sec=specs&Sub=

Not a very fast ship, and not very large . . . kudos to the crew.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 9):
Does anyone know what the rules of the sea are regarding having weapons on board a cruise ship to repel such an attack?

Nope, but I'm sure the line between self-defence and murder would be terribly hard to draw. As in "Huh? Refugees?!? We thought those guys were pirates!"



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 12):
As in "Huh? Refugees?!? We thought those guys were pirates!"

I guess that's plausible . . . don't know too many refugees that'll start shooting at a cruise ship though . . . and usually have women and children among them . . .


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2196 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 13):
I guess that's plausible . . . don't know too many refugees that'll start shooting at a cruise ship though . . . and usually have women and children among them . . .

I was thinking more along the lines of a drunk tanker captain deciding not to bother with those "pesky refugees" but instead declare he had thought they were pirates - that is, declare in court. Would make for one interesting evidence-based lawsuit.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2193 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 14):
I was thinking more along the lines of a drunk tanker captain deciding not to bother with those "pesky refugees" but instead declare he had thought they were pirates - that is, declare in court. Would make for one interesting evidence-based lawsuit.

Agreed . . . if they ever found any evidence . . .


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2192 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Agreed . . . if they ever found any evidence . . .

Bingo.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineKlm-md11 From Greece, joined Mar 2002, 471 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2117 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
I've been on that ship and I talked to the crew about pirates and what not. They say it happens a couple times a year, mostly in S.E. Asia.

They actually train the crew and are ready for things like that. On various locations throughout the boat they have massive water cannons that can spray boats that try to get too close. They just hit the attackers with huge gets of water when they try and board.

They also have guns if push comes to shove.

well, Ive WORKED on the very same ship for over a year and I can tell you there are no guns or water canons!

I did do the same cruise (from Egypt to Mombassa) and during darkness there would be extra guards out on deck to watch out for pirates. Also, all doors had to be shut on the lower decks.



GELUK IS GELUL MET EEN K
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 12):
Nope, but I'm sure the line between self-defence and murder would be terribly hard to draw. As in "Huh? Refugees?!? We thought those guys were pirates!"

Speaking of "huh?" do you get a lot of machineguns and RPGs fired at you by refugees?



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2556 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2054 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 8):
If terrorists ever hijacked a massive oil tanker and scuttled it in certain strategic waterways, the world economy would be doomed.

They've already done stuff like that. As for protecting ships at sea, they are well within their rights to carry firearms that can be issued to the crew in such an emergency. So long as they're locked away while in port, it's perfectly legal. Usually the responsibility of dealing with the ship's armory is assigned to the Master at Arms. Regarding maritime law and it's history, piracy was historically a capital offense and any vessel under attack from pirates is permitted to defend against them using lethal force.

Problem with defending a larger ship such as a tanker or container ship is that they typically run with a minimal crew scattered throughout the ship. In many cases, theft of the cargo is the main driver as it can be resold on the black market. In the case of the cruise ship, they obviously got a hold of the sailing schedule and knew enough about the clientel to know that they'd be worth robbing or kidnapping. As for the performance of the vessel, it's obviously capable of more than 16 kts. That speed is probably it's speed for economy or range. My educated guess is that the ship would have a maximum speed in the 25-30 kt. range. It might not be able to run at that speed for a long duration but maybe long enough to get away from danger. I do recall that on a cruise I once took in the Bahamas that we smelled exhaust from the engine room in the cabins one night. The next day we were informed that due to a storm forming in the region, the deck officer had ordered the engineers to give him maximum speed. The fumes that we smelled were due to the engines running at their limit for more than a couple of hours.

[Edited 2005-11-07 07:30:37]


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 18):
Speaking of "huh?" do you get a lot of machineguns and RPGs fired at you by refugees?

May I refer you to reply 14?  Wink



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2001 times:

Quoting Klm-md11 (Reply 17):
well, Ive WORKED on the very same ship for over a year and I can tell you there are no guns or water canons!


Well, all I can say is they showed me how they did it with these huge water hoses... maybe they were lying.


User currently offlineStarCruiser From United States of America, joined May 2004, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1955 times:

Ever since the boarding of the Achille Lauro in 1985 I think cruise ship captains have taken security ever more seriously, and I don't blame them. I have made 16 cruise ship voyages and one thing that has impressed me is that the safety of the passengers is foremost in the mind of the crew. I never, ever, questioned the captain's judgment to choose a safer port due to weather or political instability.

Certainly as a peaceful person I would prefer water cannon (fire hoses?) to firearms, but if necessary I would defer to the experience of the crew. Let's face it, people, there are crazies out there who will do anything for the most ridiculous of reasons. Heading flank speed out to sea would also stop those little boats as the wake from the ship alone should prove to be an obstacle to their ability to continue pursuit.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 12):

Nope, but I'm sure the line between self-defence and murder would be terribly hard to draw. As in "Huh? Refugees?!? We thought those guys were pirates!

If they are firing on you, they're not refugees; they're terrorists! They deserve to be dealt with accordingly. Any dog knows you don't bite the hand that feeds you.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

Definately wouldn't've been a problem if the pirates were foolishly attacking the SS United States. She'd probably swamp 'em with her wake and fly before the wind to outrun anything other than maybe an aircraft carrier or the fastest of the SSNs.

User currently offlineRlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1107 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1881 times:

I think some boiling cooking oil dumped over the side as they tried to climb aboard would get some attention.


I can drive faster than you
25 Post contains images Aloges : And may I refer you to reply 20? Hmmm... the good old medieval low-tech solution, I see?
26 Scamp : Seated at my table on a Holland-America cruiseship once was a former purser on the Queen Elizabeth 2. She told us that the Royal Navy used to conduct
27 DL021 : Well....the pirates were using wooden boats with smaller motors that enabled them to match the cruise speed of the liner, but obviously not capable of
28 Halls120 : While there are sparse but fairly well developed rules for the use of force to be employed by government/naval vessels, I know of no rules regarding
29 MD-90 : Not that I'm predicting anything, but imagine the outcry if terrorists were able to take a cruise liner (anywhere in the world) that was near a US com
30 SlamClick : I don't think this is much of a threat. Once they had the vessel it would be very easy for us to track them and impossible for them to track us (unle
31 DL021 : Was not aware of that. When was this warning issued and are other cruise lines avoiding that coastline? If this is a case of the cruise line setting
32 Halls120 : It wouldn't get near the aircraft carrier, much less any other naval combatant - unless the USN vessel was intent on coming alongside. Not sure. I'm
33 MD11Engineer : The German Navy is operating in this area with heavily armed "Schnellboote" (bigger than a MTB, but smaller and faster than a frigate) as part of OP E
34 Aloges : It should be possible, if not easy, for one of the world's more experienced navies, to disable the ship without sinking it. Most ships can take a lot
35 Scamp : The ideal way, obviously, to disable most any type of ship is to destroy the props/stearing gear. I suppose that requires a torpedo. But then, that cr
36 Post contains links ANCFlyer : I can't find a date for this warning, but here's a tidbit . . . Apparently, the piratical activity is not news . . . http://www.maritimematters.com/s
37 MD11Engineer : I remember having heard once that in the 1960s the US government was selling surplus BARs (Browning Automatic Rifles, something between a rifle and a
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