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More Info On Possible CIA Plane  
User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6018 times:

Does anyone know more about the following aircraft?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © João Resendes - Azores Spotters



I have it from a reliable source that the Danish Media is reporting that it is actually a CIA plane used to ferry prisoners. Maybe true, maybe not, but strange to see a CASA with an N number operating in Europe no?

LPLAspotter
PS: Please lets not start a flame war


Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

Has it been seen in SNN I wonder, that would be a clue. There was an N-Reg GIV that was always going through SNN recently and it was claimed that it was transporting prisoners to Gutanamo. This was never proved though.

User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

One of the "torture express" A/C (as they're referred to) was supposedly seen in Prague earlier this year.
Why would they use a CASA to transport prisoners all the way down to Cuba?
a BBJ would make a lot more sense.

The Sorcerer



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5765 times:

There was a thread about those planes because a German Magazine used Anet pics. There it was a BBJ.

German Spotters Help Pls, My Picture In Focus (by Fly-K May 28 2005 in Aviation Photography)

Maybe some more info in that thread.

Georg


User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5604 times:

It’s no secret anymore that the CIA has a fleet of corporate jets; BBJs, GIVs, Lear Jets and such to move terrorist around the world, in discreet fashion, to deliver them to other countries to be jailed. They are based out of Virginia, which just happens to be the home state of CIA.  Wink

User currently offlinePinsent From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5537 times:

That aircraft has been parked on our ramp (Cougar Helicopters) in YYT several times in the past 6 months. One instance (August) Canadian Customs and the RCMP were all over it with dogs and people. Weird stuff. Always wondered who owned it and why it was in Newfoundland.

User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

Interesting responses to my post. It frequents in Azores as a fuel stop while crossing the Atlantic. It's window shades are always down.

Last night on CNN they were reporting that the US were allowed by Romanian and Czech governments to hold prisoners in jails built in those countries by the US. Just a rumor, but everytime I see this plane (which is not that frequent by the way) it makes things puzzling.

thanks for the replies. Hope more are coming.

cheers:
LPLAspotter



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineIlovenz From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5292 times:

There was also a recent Human Rights Watch report that said prisoners are being held in several eastern european towns in secret jails, which may explain their presence in places like PRG and others. The report and it's publicity apparently have the US intelligence pretty pissed off.

Keep it up identifying these aircraft. Even though it's a very small thing, it's helping us break the thin wall of secrecy that allows the U.S. to torture these people.  Wink

Sam


User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5200 times:

Quoting Ilovenz (Reply 7):
Keep it up identifying these aircraft. Even though it's a very small thing, it's helping us break the thin wall of secrecy that allows the U.S. to torture these people.

Absolutely. This has to stop! Welcome to my respected users list
LPLA spotter



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

I suspect someday soon, that the CIA will shift the operations of their 'black program' air flights to military or smaller commercial airports to evade and reduce suspisions and information of their operations.
The outing of CIA operations such as spotting aircraft they use creates serious problems and considerable conflicts. It affects the security that may be properly needed in their mission to protect the USA and many other countries from terrorists, but also their ability to illegally evade human rights standards. Hopefully we will find out more of the illegal CIA prisions and pressure will be put on the USA to shut them down or face international sacnctions.


User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 10):
ou are making totally baseless claims about torture and human rights abuses.

Oh really? It's been making stops in GVA and the CIA has always refused to comment. Why wouldn't they deny if it was all wrong?



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1845 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4941 times:

I happened to buy the a World Air Routes DVD at the Boston Airline Show. It was the AF A340 DVD which features Cairo as a destination.

Anyways, when watching the DVD, upon arrival into CAI I thought I saw one of the "CIA 737s" parked onthe ramp. The DVD was filmed in 2002 so it is entirely possible, right? Can anyone tell by the REG (which I can't see) or the colours? Here's some screen shots...






Yes? No?



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 10):
You people are a bunch of wacko conspiracy theorists. You are making totally baseless claims about torture and human rights abuses. And quoting CNN as a source of information is NOT a good way to increase your own credibility.

Ah, now you had to make a totally benign post into a flame war. I guess you get your news from the Midland Odessa newspaper (if they have one). Hmmmmmmm, stuck in MAF? Me smelleth a texan republican.



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4875 times:

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 11):
Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 10):
ou are making totally baseless claims about torture and human rights abuses.

Oh really? It's been making stops in GVA and the CIA has always refused to comment. Why wouldn't they deny if it was all wrong?

And what does THAT have to do with torture and human rights abuses? If Donald Trump's 727 shows up in PRG or YYT, does it mean he is participating in torture and human rights abuses? Let's just say for a moment that these planes really are operated by the CIA. So what? Does that mean that all UN planes are participating in abuses of the "Oil-for-food" program? Maybe it does if you apply the same guilt by association.





Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 13):
Ah, now you had to make a totally benign post into a flame war. I guess you get your news from the Midland Odessa newspaper (if they have one). Hmmmmmmm, stuck in MAF? Me smelleth a texan republican.

Just calling a spade a spade. I probably get my news from the same sources that you do, maybe I'm just not quite so gullible. And what difference does it make where my home base is? Well, if you want to put it that way, then fine. I'll accept that we have a higher-than-average rate of common sense in this area.
 box 


User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4819 times:

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 14):
I'll accept that we have a higher-than-average rate of common sense in this area.

Common sense from Bush country? What the *(*&(*^Q# are you talking about?

Five posts and you jump-in picking a fight. Where is Concordeboy when we need him?
LPLAspotter



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineMichiganMAN From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 10):
You people are a bunch of wacko conspiracy theorists. You are making totally baseless claims about torture and human rights abuses

I'm sorry, I thought locking people away for over three years without due process on a base in Cuba was common knowledge...........



UK -> USA
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4771 times:

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 6):
Last night on CNN they were reporting

Oh, now there's a great source of news and facts! LMAO!!!

Quoting Ilovenz (Reply 7):
Even though it's a very small thing, it's helping us break the thin wall of secrecy that allows the U.S. to torture these people.

Yes, and while you're at it would you mind monitoring aircraft and activities from:

Saudi Arabia
Syria
Iran
China
North Korea

Just to name a few. In fact, you may want to focus on them more because whatever benefit your "torture" monitoring may provide, it will have a much more positive affect and benefit infinitely more people since those governments are completely closed and can imprison/torture/kill entire villages and no one would ever know.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4759 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 4):
to move terrorist around the world, in discreet fashion, to deliver them to other countries to be jailed.

Terrorists? Why do they hide them from international courts then? Maybe because they have no evidence?

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 14):
maybe I'm just not quite so gullible.

Maybe you just refuse to listen to anything that doesn't fit your world view

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 14):
I'll accept that we have a higher-than-average rate of common sense in this area.

Interesting, so is that why Texas ranks low on the education list?

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 17):
Oh, now there's a great source of news and facts! LMAO!!!

Do you care to back up your suggestion that CNN is not credible?

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 17):
Just to name a few. In fact, you may want to focus on them more because whatever benefit your "torture" monitoring may provide, it will have a much more positive affect and benefit infinitely more people since those governments are completely closed and can imprison/torture/kill entire villages and no one would ever know.

You mean all those countries who are either Allies of the US, or not being forced to stop their practices by the US?


User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

Not picking a fight, just defending myself. And stop trying to stereotype people!

BTW, STILL no factual basis provided supporting the accusations of torture or human rights abuses. Just personal attacks on those things that you can find out about me, all the while still attempting to skirt the REAL issue at hand- the baseless accusations made by Ilovenz in reply number 7 and LPLA's support of it in reply number 8 of torture and human rights abuses.

Going back to the original post, if the CASA or the BBJ pictured are being used to ferry prisoners, what difference does it make? It still doesn't mean they are being tortured or having their human rights abused. I see no blood, broken bones, starving skeletons, not even a pile of naked prisoners anywhere around the aircraft in these photos.

Convince me. Show me some real facts to support your claims that these (or any other) aircraft are being used for what you say is happening!

Or stop making the claims and I'll be happy to just stay on the sidelines and watch this one go by like most of the other threads.

Is that too much to ask?


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Quoting B744F (Reply 18):
You mean all those countries who are either Allies of the US, or not being forced to stop their practices by the US?

If you looked closely, with the exception of Saudi Arabia, none of the countries I listed are considered "allies" of the U.S. As for Saudi Arabia, trust me: that relationship is slowly changing and no doubt because polls show most Americans don't think of them as an ally and distrust them immensely.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4716 times:

OK, I'll back off the stereotyping. It's not cool. Hey, even my uncle is from Texas - the farm boy from Palestine made it from a soldier to Chief Prosecutor for Air Piracy in the USJD.

How much proof do you need? Satellite pictures, eyewitness acounts, the military putting their own on trial for attrocities. You tell me. And how do these prisoners get to Guantanamo in the first place - by boat?

Back to the original post - does anybody have a clue why a Spanish made aircraft (brand new by the way) is operating unmarked in europe with a US registration?

LPLAspotter

[Edited 2005-11-04 21:06:04]


Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4690 times:

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 21):
Satellite pictures

I could probably GoogleEarth over to some structures in Portugal and say they look like POW holding cells.

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 21):
eyewitness acounts

As far as I can tell, every eyewitness has been "anonymous".

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 21):
the military putting their own on trial for attrocities

Seems to me that should speak volumes about the integrity of our system; that we openly admit mistakes and punish those that make them.

But in all fairness, sure, I'll admit the CIA may be running clandestine camps in other countries. It may be doing a lot of things you think it shouldn't. But to throw up on a forum some pictures and quote a proven unreliable news source as proof the U.S. is the "Great Satan" doesn't really corroborate your claims. I travel a lot and often times see aircraft parked at various airports with very limited or non-existent markings. I don't immediately jump to the conclusion that it is a CIA airplane up to no good.

But then, I'm not paranoid like a lot of people are.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12562 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4682 times:

This is absolutely nothing to do with the CIA. Torture ... absolutely not. The window shades were merely down because the passengers wanted to play Twister and thought it might look strange to people on the ground.

You'll all have heard that Ariana is getting 737-700s and 757s, two aircraft types that the "CIA" is accused of operating. Actually, these are crew familiarisation flights and the trainee pilots, to aid recognition in case of having to leave the aircraft, wear orange boiler suits provided by Easyjet (which also operates 737-700s). Coincidence? I think not.

So, let's leave the poor CIA alone. Flight training schools are full and a government agency is only trying to help poorer countries to develop. It's also running a frequent flyer service for regular passengers. Honestly, can a govt agency not do anything without people pointing fingers. What is the world coming to?


User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4641 times:

Quoting B744F (Reply 18):
Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 14):
I'll accept that we have a higher-than-average rate of common sense in this area.

Interesting, so is that why Texas ranks low on the education list?

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm

Hmm, I would think out of 50 states, 24th would not be considered "low", it might even be considered "average". Besides, READING COMPREHENSION is a part of education. I said "common sense", and that's certainly not a component of education!

Hard facts. That's what's lacking in this thread.


User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

Torture is wrong, no matter what act a person commits. We (as Human beings) are supposed to be above this sort of thing. There is no way to logically argue for torture....confessions obtained via torture are the least dependable source of information....as we all know that a person will say ANYTHING to stop the pain and agony.

Anyone who thinks that torture is acceptable should be extremely ashamed of themselves. Period.

Yes, keep spotting those CIA planes. It's OUR money that bought those aircraft and it is US who will keep an eye on them.


25 BlueSky1976 : As long as Texas Big Oil Co. will be in bed with Saudi Arabian government, they will be our allies. That relationship will not change a bit as long a
26 MichiganMAN : I'll ask again. Have people not been holed up for over three years in Gitmo without due process?
27 TheSorcerer : These countries aren't claiming to promote democracy and human rights like the US are. The Sorcerer
28 Post contains links RedFlyer : Oh no? What have you been smoking (or, should I say drinking since you list that in your profile as a hobby)? What have you been listening to in your
29 LPLAspotter : Yeah, me too, but we're not trained to spot these things like some people are. If it was me I sure would be "anonymous" and so would anybody else wit
30 Post contains links PiedmontINT : First of all, due process and the writ of habeas corpus are guaranteed in the US Constitution for US CITIZENS. No where in that document does it say
31 Byrdluvs747 : Whatever. Watch Frontline and then tell me torture doesn't happen.
32 RedFlyer : Yep, just as I suspected, you're paranoid. Yes, the American media. Which we consider integral to the proper functioning of a free and democratic soc
33 PHXinterrupted : Ignorance is bliss, but hey, if you think this happens, perhaps 'mighty' Portugal can put a stop to it.
34 LPLAspotter : You're right I did, but I didn't realize what a can of worms I'd be opening up because of some little turboprop. I'll just have to remember in the fu
35 RedFlyer : If you only knew me, you would not make a statement like that about me. But if that were an accurate moniker for me, what's the problem? Are you not
36 FCYTravis : Wait a second. These people aren't terrorists. You have no right to smear them as terrorists. These people have not been charged with any crime, much
37 Post contains images StuckinMAF : It's not ruined, really. It has been a very productive thread and I have gained a lot of respect for those who have agreed with my views, and even th
38 TWA902fly : While i do agree with you that the US government overall is not a bad entity out to torture people, dont be that naive. If they found out something l
39 LPLAspotter : What does Portugal have to do with this? As StuckinMAF taught me, don't stereotype me because of where I live. Some people have Antartica flags by th
40 DeltaGator : Foreign Diplomacy 101 here guys...The U.S. doesn't have allies. We have interests. We are interested in the oil but also in doing whatever we can wit
41 RedAirForce : How the French wished thay had AC like this; but no, Paris burns from the Jihad. To all those who have a problem with these AC, rot....the US bears th
42 PlanesNTrains : The thing is, LPLA, this is an aviation forum, not a political one. If you want to talk about CIA aircraft, great, but when it starts branching off i
43 LPLAspotter : Has a long time ago. This thread - already there. Original Post: Does anyone know more about the following aircraft? I have it from a reliable source
44 Post contains links and images Malaysia : I think this was CIA too? View Large View MediumPhoto © K.L.Yim "1972; Executive Committee and Officer of the Pacific Corporation; Air America; I
45 SATL382G : This speculation of yours was the first shot in the flame war. If you don't want a flame war then don't fire the first shot!!
46 LPLAspotter : Oh well, at least my friend Joao Resendes (the photographer of the above aircraft) is thrilled - he's never gotten so many hits on one of his photos e
47 DarthRandall : Damn those pinko tree-huggers at Time-Warner! A more benign possibility could be that they are transporting VIPs, and another possibility could be th
48 LPLAspotter : Now that's the type of post I like - Possible logical scenarios for my original question. The eavesdropping sounds interesting, but I would think tha
49 PlanesNTrains : Well, in this thread, this was the 2nd reply: Then came reply number 7: Followed by You in number 8: Then number 9: At this point, yes, the thread wa
50 UAL747DEN : Give me a break, if the CIA really wanted to keep the identity of their aircraft a secret they would not register it in the US. They could fly around
51 FCYTravis : You're missing the irony of what you just said. The entire point of this war is that we're supposed to have the moral high ground - "liberating Iraqi
52 FedEx : If I remember correctly, this CASA has been for sale for quite some time. It is one of only a very few CN-235's that have ever been N-numbered. The ma
53 Bennett123 : It seems to me that there are three points about these people who are being held. 1. They are suspected terrorists. As far as I know they have not bee
54 Post contains links and images 2H4 : In addition to N168D, Devon Holding & Leasing Inc operates an additional CASA CN235, N187D: Now here's something you don't see every day....a CN-235
55 PlanesNTrains : There's always hope - thanks for trying. -Dave
56 LPLAspotter : Hey, after looking at those pics by 2H4, I can't but help seeing a small resemblence to the Nord 262 (especially the last shot head on). I hope that p
57 DarthRandall : Not necessarily. I forget just what the official name of it was (can anyone help me with this?), but the Air Force used to use a modified 707 to do e
58 PiedmontINT : 35 years ago, we fought a standing army, the NVA or North Vietnamese Army. They used guerilla tactics and gave the impression that they were unorgani
59 StuckinMAF : Chaff/flare dispenser.
60 LPLAspotter : Does the USAF operate any other foreign made aircraft? I know the US Army at one time operated some Shorts and DeHavilland aircraft, but I can't think
61 777STL : If the CIA truly is transporting people in those planes for nefarious intentions, I'm guessing they're not saints. From what I've heard, a lot of them
62 DarthRandall : I wasn't speaking of the NVA; I was talking about the Viet Cong. Two different things. The NVA themselves were not as unconventional as some may thin
63 Fokkerf28 : The USAF use to fly the C-27 spartan which was a G-222 Alenia photoid:028925[Edited 2005-11-06 02:42:35]
64 2H4 : Sure they do. Off the top of my head, there's the E-9, UV-18, C-27, C-23, and C-38. There are probably more. Not to mention aircraft that were foreig
65 MichiganMAN : When Gerry Adams and his IRA ilk were invited to the Whitehouse on numerous occasions, I find posts like this extremely hypocritical.
66 Post contains images MD80fanatic : Since these planes ARE registered in the US, I imagine the CIA "expects" them to be spotted. They seem to raise a stink about it because that makes pe
67 OzGlobal : "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, tha
68 RedFlyer : That line makes me suspect the rest of what you claim George Washington said simply because combatants on boths sides during his era were Christians
69 SkyexRamper : The CIA moves them around the world to other countries to have them get info out of them. Its a win/win situation really. International Courts?!? Why
70 PlanesNTrains : Just curious why threads like this, or at least the litany of off-topic posts, are not in some way deleted or edited by the moderators? What the hell
71 Cjpark : One person detracts from the credibillity of CNN. Ted Turner We did liberate the Iraqis from a destructive, power mad regime. Now the job is to help
72 LPLAspotter : I started it as an aviation question and then it grew from there. If you don't like it then report it to the moderators or go somewhere else and stop
73 2H4 : LPLA is right. The intent was to discuss and research strange aircraft. A handful of us have been doing what we can to keep things on topic and relev
74 Post contains images TheSorcerer : Will you pay for my flights as well? The Sorcerer
75 Post contains links MarkusB : In an effort to pick up this intent, I'd like to draw your attention to N8183J of Tepper Aviation. Readers with a good knowledge of German may find t
76 SATL382G : I looked at the photo in the article and I don't see any unusual antennas. Can someone point them out?
77 Post contains links MarkusB : Good point. The antennae are maybe less obvious than one would expect but looking at the pictures in the database, e.g. http://www.airliners.net/open.
78 B744F : And you happen to know these people are all terrorists.... how exactly? Why bother? Because you're supposed to be morally superior to the people you
79 Post contains links L410Turbolet : I think you badly need to work on your reading comprehension. The Czech government admitted negotiations with the US gov't about a month ago but acco
80 Post contains images LPLAspotter : And you honestly believe that is the proof that they do not exist? You sure have more faith in your government than I do in mine. LPLAspotter
81 Airlinelover : That's like the Taliban or Al Quida saying that Osama Bin Laden never existed.. Take it with a grain of salt.. Chris
82 B744F : If you take everything with a grain of salt if it doesn't seem righ to you, you will never figure out the truth but instead live your life being spoo
83 LPLAspotter : Sounds like you just believe what you want. Isn't that called fantasy? LPLAspotter
84 Beefstew25 : Now lets all sit in a circle and meditate on the above profound statement.... Then lets put on our black jogging suits, move to San Diego, drink some
85 L410Turbolet : No I don't have much faith in my government, however I see it as unlikely for one simple reason: In this country nothing stays secret, even things th
86 Prebennorholm : That's absolutely right. I can verify that. Ferried prisoners to/from torture chambres in central Europe. But it wasn't a creditable Danish media. It
87 B744F : Is that why the CIA is asking the Justice Department to investigate who leaked this information to the media?????? NO FACTS?
88 Post contains links BDKLEZ : I've just been reading through the posts here, and I recall a television documentary which was screened recently here in the UK regarding the illegal
89 Post contains images Mrmeangenes : As an innocent "newbie" here, I'm curious at all the time and effort some folks are putting into the identification of "CIA aircraft". Is this somethi
90 Post contains links GDoole01 : http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/11/327851.html The above has two graphics. Get 'em now before they take them down. Indispensable for planespotters
91 MDorBust : Useing a Cessna 172 to move torture victims around the world?.. Yeah... Okay then...
92 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Spot on . . . conspiracy theorists and the like . . . you know all those "black helicopters" are equipped with "See thru the Walls X-Ray Gizmos" and
93 B744F : yes its all just a conspiracy theory, do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain, do not question authority, do not listen to the theories of
94 Post contains links GDoole01 : List Of CIA Planes - List NY Times Mentioned (by GDoole01 Nov 14 2005 in Non Aviation)a The plane referred to is described in the list on this forum a
95 ANCFlyer : I question authority all the time, the gov't does plenty of things I don't like, everyone in DC is a liar - it's politics and politicians, I just use
96 We're Nuts : He's not pretending. ANCFlyer actually is that bad at being a moderate.
97 Post contains links GDoole01 : On N168D, why not just look it up in the New York Times list? It's right here on Airliners.net. You go to the following address and scroll down List O
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