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Muslims Try To Stop Riots And Violence In France  
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

On the WEBsite of the BBC it is reported :
-
Muslim leaders of African and Arab communities have also issued a fatwa, or religious order, against the riots.

"It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others," the fatwa by the Union of Islamic Organisations in France said.

100 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Thread starter):
"It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others," the fatwa by the Union of Islamic Organisations in France said.

And where was this statement on September 11, 2001? I'm by no means anti-muslim, but it's a little strange that they condemn those who burn cars in France, but stay quiet when 3000 people die in New York. we was our deserved, fatwa????

On the other hand, perhaps this is France's fault by not hammering down on immigration. When you have too many mouths to feed and not enough bread, perhaps this is what happens. I'm in total favor of illegal AND legal immigration control. But a 50% unemployment rate among immigrant young adults, isn't exactly the fault of France either. Immigration legal and illegal is a two way street or a double edged sword.....take your pick.

UAL

[Edited 2005-11-07 19:19:06]

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2853 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
we was our deserved, fatwa????

Just google for " "9/11" fatwa ". One of the results (the first one, actually) is this: http://archive.muslimuzbekistan.com/...news/2001/09/ennews18092001_1.html



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2847 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Thread starter):
Muslim leaders of African and Arab communities have also issued a fatwa, or religious order, against the riots.

Yeah, only took them what, 2 weeks? After hundreds of vehicles burned, people injured, etc, and just now they're condemning these riots?

Good for them.  Yeah sure





-NWA742


User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2844 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
And where was this statement on September 11, 2001?

Where do you get off suggesting that these Muslim leaders supported September 11???



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2840 times:

Aloges, that was nothing but a political statement, especially toward the end.

UAL


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 4):
Where do you get off suggesting that these Muslim leaders supported September 11???

Where do you get off twisting my words around?

UAL


User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2828 times:

Umm, in what sense? If you're not suggesting that these leaders supported September 11th, then what on earth are you suggesting?


Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2828 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 5):
Aloges, that was nothing but a political statement, especially toward the end.

So what else is the Fatwa against the violence in France?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 3):
Yeah, only took them what, 2 weeks?

You know, they probably had to wait for their bi-weekly audience at Allah's before they could proceed...  duck   flamed 



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2826 times:

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 4):
Where do you get off suggesting that these Muslim leaders supported September 11???

He never said anything like that, Jean.

We saw isolated cases of Muslim outrage over 9/11, that's a fact. However, did we ever get any massive, wide condemnation from Muslims (as a whole) after 9/11? Nope.




-NWA742


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2822 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Thread starter):
On the WEBsite of the BBC it is reported :

Link, please. I've searched http://www.bbc.co.uk/ and found nothing.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2813 times:

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 9):
However, did we ever get any massive, wide condemnation from Muslims (as a whole) after 9/11?

Sorry, but do you really expect billions of people of what-do-I-know-how-many confessions to unite, vote for a spokesman and have him say "We condemn the attacks?" That's simply impossible and you know it.

By the way, I think some 20% percent of the US population (wild guess here) would cheer if Mecca was bombed during the Hajj, so please, please get off your high horse. To me, you sound like nothing Muslims could have done after 9/11 could please you.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2803 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
Sorry, but do you really expect billions of people of what-do-I-know-how-many confessions to unite, vote for a spokesman and have him say "We condemn the attacks?" That's simply impossible and you know it.

I don't expect anything out of them. It is like it is.

Another thing, what you said might not be possible, and I never suggested it in the first place. However, what WAS possible, was for them to express more outrage over 9/11 than they did.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
By the way, I think some 20% percent of the US population (wild guess here) would cheer if Mecca was bombed during the Hajj, so please, please get off your high horse.

Doubtful. Most Americans would never want to harm innocent people. I'm not on a high horse -- it's a well known fact that the Muslims have never been quick to condemn those who committ crimes in the name of their ethnicity and religion.




-NWA742


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2797 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
To me, you sound like nothing Muslims could have done after 9/11 could please you.

Well, I'm no nazi-conservative-republican apologist, more of a "liberal-hang your wang out-and sing khum by yah" sort of person, but yeah, I haven't been very impressed with muslim AUTHORITY figures since 9/11, and pre 9/11.

UAL


User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2795 times:

I just heard a bus had been set alight in Tolouse!

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2789 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 13):
I haven't been very impressed with muslim AUTHORITY figures since 9/11, and pre 9/11.

I'm sure most Iranians, Iraqis, Syrians and so on haven't been either. You Americans really have that picture of some Palestinian crowd cheering about the 9/11 attacks burnt in your mind, don't you? Sure it was terrible, but it was a vast minority.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2778 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 15):
I'm sure most Iranians, Iraqis, Syrians and so on haven't been either. You Americans really have that picture of some Palestinian crowd cheering about the 9/11 attacks burnt in your mind, don't you?

Oh God......no, I don't. However, I think there should have been some greater sense of sympathy shown by those who are leaders in the Muslim world. I say leaders, because in a sense, they are representing their people, and the ideals of that people. However, I am quite aware that political figures do not always depict the people. (Ahem, Bush, cough...). But when you are continents away from those people, you have to rely on their leaders to spread the message of the people, and after 9/11, a message of sympathy and condemnation of the terror attacks wasn't really what I call an effort well done.

UAL


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2774 times:

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 9):
However, did we ever get any massive, wide condemnation from Muslims (as a whole) after 9/11? Nope.

What does that even mean?

Why should Muslims (as a whole) who had nothing to do with 9/11 apologize as a group for the acts of religious fundamentalists?

And what makes you think that the whole universe needs to stop in its tracks and obsess over 9/11? Most countries have their own headaches, and as Walter Cronkite once said, all news is local. Yes, 9/11 was a historical atrocity, but lets not expect everyone on God's green earth to milk it to death like we do in this country.

Also, given that it took the Vatican over 50 years to apologize for the Church's complicity in the anti-semitism and pogroms in Nazi Germany, it appears that the hairy maniacal Mullahs are far more timely in their actions.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 12):
I'm not on a high horse -- it's a well known fact that the Muslims have never been quick to condemn those who committ crimes in the name of their ethnicity and religion.

A well known assumption, I'd say, based on the rather absurd reporting of the mainstream press that focuses primarily on crackpot extremist Islamic voices who seem to scream the loudest.


User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2764 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 17):
Why should Muslims (as a whole) who had nothing to do with 9/11 apologize as a group for the acts of religious fundamentalists?

It doesn't matter if they had nothing to do with it -- those who did acted in the name of their religion, and therefore, they should've condemned it.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 17):
And what makes you think that the whole universe needs to stop in its tracks and obsess over 9/11?

Never suggested it.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 17):
A well known assumption, I'd say, based on the rather absurd reporting of the mainstream press that focuses primarily on crackpot extremist Islamic voices who seem to scream the loudest.

Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I still think it's a historical fact that they've never ever been quick to condemn those who commit crimes in their name.



-NWA742


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2758 times:

I thought only JGPH1A could issue fatwahs?  duck 


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2752 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
but stay quiet when 3000 people die in New York

the 11Sep01 attacks were clearly condemned by the Sheikh-al-Islam (elAzhar in Cairo) who is the most high-ranking Muslim ceric in the world, as well as by the IIC (International Islamic Conference) which is the highest body of Islam, by numerous national Imams, even including Federal UAE Imam el-Shehhi whose 2nd son Marwan was "captain" on board of the 2nd WTC aircraft. There were demonstrations in favour of the USA in Casablanca and other places. Those things were widely reported in the Arab media and the European media, but for unknown reasons NOT in US-American media (except CNN)

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 3):
only took them what, 2 weeks?


the "normal" speed by regional standards !

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 10):
Link, please

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4414684.stm >> 2nd paragraph


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2752 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 19):
I thought only JGPH1A could issue fatwahs?

You mean, against yourself?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2746 times:

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 18):
those who did acted in the name of their religion

sorry, they did NOT ! no, they did NOT act in the name of their religion. They PROCLAIMED to do so, that is all .


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2745 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20):
There were demonstrations in favour of the USA in Casablanca and other places. Those things were widely reported in the Arab media and the European media, but for unknown reasons NOT in US-American media (except CNN)

Well, lets blame it on the media then, except for CNN.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2744 times:

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 18):
It doesn't matter if they had nothing to do with it -- those who did acted in the name of their religion, and therefore, they should've condemned it.

Everyone except for a few loud religious fanatics condemned it. How many Muslims do you know, or have talked to to make the crass assumption that Joe Blow Muslim didn't condemn it? Do you speak or read Urdu, Pashtun, Bengali, Tagalog, Farsi, Arabic to have read the press from Muslim majority nations to come up with your testy conclusion that Muslims didn't condemn it?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 18):
Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I still think it's a historical fact that they've never ever been quick to condemn those who commit crimes in their name.

A "historical fact?" Based on what historical period? Given that most wars throughout history have been fought on religious or ethnic grounds, I suspect that most religions and social groups are guilty.


25 Post contains links FOMEA : http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...+Condemning+September+11th&spell=1 I think there are over 10 pages of condemning..if that is not enough..feel
26 B744F : Nobody stayed quiet, you just want to believe they were all cheering and typically, you form your conclusions before getting actual facts to back the
27 NWA742 : Such hypocrisy, Jaysit. How do you know that everybody, including Joe Blow Muslim, actually condemned it? How many Muslims do you know? I happen to k
28 UAL747 : Okay, I highjacked this debate with a he o, now I think we need to turn back to the issue at hand. What exactly will a fatwa do to French muslims citi
29 UAL747 : Typically? EXCUSE ME? First of all, you can find facts to back up ANY argument, and secondly, IN MY OPINION, I did not think the Muslim world's react
30 Post contains links Aleksandar : That's nice, but can it make any difference? Better late than never. As far as I remember, 9/11 was condemned in muslim world (if there is some kind
31 Post contains images NWA742 : I agree with you on this one UAL747. Oh, and don't bother trying to argue with B744F. Just show him this and all is well. B744F - chirp chirp chirp.
32 UAL747 : AnyWay, back to the original argument, and my questions in reply 28, UAL
33 Aleksandar : OK, can somebody explain what using words "cricket and chirp" really mean. I admit that my knowledge of English is limited and I need your help, just
34 B744F : What a change of tune compared to this: and this: Exactly, you've learned arguing with me only makes you look like a complete fool
35 UAL747 : And it's comments like that that make you look more like a person that has to turn to deragatory comments when you feel your argument is threatened.
36 Jaysit : This varies with immigrant groups, but its also been the practice of all immigrant groups into the United States. Southern European migrants seldom l
37 B744F : HAHAHAHAHAH Good try. I just posted 3 different quotes all saying different things, then you have the nerve to claim I feel my argument is threatened
38 Post contains images NWA742 : Exactly. I'd consider myself a fool if I tried to argue sense into a 9/11 conspiracy believing cricket boy like you again. Chirp chirp -NWA742
39 Post contains links UAL747 : Wrong....just head to Houston, Dallas, SoCal, there are plenty of people who work hard, and know what is right for them, but the institution and cult
40 Jaysit : Yes. Who buy American made Boeing airplanes, ipods, Dell laptops, Ford cars just to name a few. All these companies hire Americans in the United Stat
41 B744F : You don't speak any sort of sense, every argument you've made I easily have smashed to the ground. That is why you are so bitter
42 UAL747 : No they won't. In corporate hierarchy, there is very little room for people on the top end. Hypothetically, if you have no labor, all you need is man
43 Post contains images Flydubai : 'Big yourself up why don't you!' In other words you like boasting. This is clearly a one sided 'Islamic bashing' thread which involves mostly America
44 Jaysit : And this is news to you? Social and economic inequities have always been the hallmark of capitalist societies. Even back in 1950, the Rockefellers ha
45 B744F : I don't like it, I only use it when people fail to address my actual comments while still claiming I don't know what I'm talking about Have you even
46 Aleksandar : I don't agree. When the scandal with pedophilia broke, the culmination of the crisis was when John Paul II summoned all US bishops and gave them his
47 ME AVN FAN : or on you yourself for NOT reading the reports --- whatever
48 ME AVN FAN : the "value" of that Fatwa is that it robs potential religious zealots and extremists of their "ideological basis". It however of course does NOT calm
49 FlyAUA : That picture was actually found to be crowds of people cheering after the gulf war was over the first time round. There was nobody cheering after 9/1
50 ME AVN FAN : And they brought the same "video-clip" again and again, trying to give the impression as if it had happened many many times in many many cities and t
51 Halls120 : Apologize? No. There was no need for all muslims to apologize, since as you point out, the overwhelming number of muslims had nothing to do with 9/11
52 ME AVN FAN : Primarily a lack of experience and knowhow in this field. Lack of money in case of some Arab countries.
53 Halls120 : Lack of money!?!?!?! You've got to be kidding!!!!!
54 B744F : Yes a lack of money, only the radical fundmanetalist oil owning Arabs have unlimited funds.
55 Halls120 : and the "radical fundamentalist oil owning arabs" (whoever they are - as usual, you provide no source for this claim) have no interest in pushing the
56 B744F : LOL! Only the blind and ignorant would deny reality BTW I never said it began, I said that was one of the legal arguments the Justices agreed upon. S
57 Halls120 : No, you said there was nothing preceding Roe v. Wade on the issue of a woman's right to privacy. Ignoring completely the landmark decision of Griswol
58 B744F : please do
59 Aloges : Personally I have no doubt some people in the "Muslim World" did indeed cheer about the 9/11 attacks, but to judge the quality of the journalism that
60 Post contains images FlyAUA : I wouldn't go to the extent of calling it "cheering". I know many muslim people, none of which were happy about what happened. I also have no doubt t
61 Wingman : Some good comments here amongst many pointless ones. My personal view is that these riots in France are a mix of issues that just suddenly reached a b
62 B744F : Huge success? Have you seen the wealth ownership numbers for each race? When you give them no opportunities to begin with, don't be surprised when 99
63 Aleksandar : Actually, he is not kidding. There are more Arab countries that don't have "petrol dollars". The list is too long to write it here, but let's say Jor
64 Halls120 : Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq (before the first Gulf War, of course) , the UAE, etc. have/had more than enough money to underwrite
65 Halls120 : In the thread "what made you become a republican," here is what you posted. Quoting B744F (Reply 67): There are no legal and Constitutional issues ex
66 B744F : I already answered this before, I said there are no legal and Constitutional issues in regard to a fetus having "rights" because it isn't a human bei
67 Halls120 : The above may your position now, but it is NOT what you said originally. Quoting B744F (Reply 67): There are no legal and Constitutional issues excep
68 David b. : Quoting B744F (Reply 66): Quoting Halls120 (Reply 64): Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq (before the first Gulf War, of course) , the U
69 B744F : nowhere in that sentence do I claim that the case was the FIRST instance of individual rights. I even responded to your comment in that topic as well
70 TheSorcerer : CNN and Fox didn't want to know about it, neither did the white house. They would have been a lot happier if the opposite had been said by the Muslim
71 Aleksandar : Yes, but you just named several different countries all with their own interests that naturally come first. Also, like ME AVN FAN said, you should al
72 ME AVN FAN : Hardly ! I speak about the more important and (socially) more modern Arab countries like Egypt, Morocco, Algeria and Syria --- and NOT about some oil
73 ME AVN FAN : What was bothering, and very much so indeed, was the attempt of the US-American media to give the impression as if MILLIONS of Arabs had celebrated 1
74 ME AVN FAN : - Iran is NOT an Arab country and therefore IRRELEVANT Iraq hardly was a nation high in demand for P.R. actions - KSA, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, O
75 Aleksandar : I apologize then. Back then, I was only able to watch BBC World, so I didn't have all the relevant information.
76 ME AVN FAN : those marketing successes usually are the successes of those folks on the economic front of companies like airlines, tourism and shipping. Those in c
77 PIA777 : I belonged to a huge muslim community in Chicago at the time of 9/11 and I never met anyone who did not condem those terrorist acts. Get your facts st
78 Post contains images QR332 : Oh come on, not this crap again! All Muslim countries condemned 9/11, and are condemning the riots. A fatwa was issued yesterday I think by Yusef Al-Q
79 Post contains images Halls120 : Sorry, but the clear implication of this statement - "There are no legal and Constitutional issues except Roe v Wade which showed that women have a r
80 ME AVN FAN : - They would be suited for "funding" such an endeavour theoretically and from a financial point of view, but then would try to take command. And woul
81 MaverickM11 : Because you never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever back them up. Ever.
82 B744F : Thats a very broad accusation which holds absolutely no water. Every once in a while I will post a link, but I have no desire to do the research for
83 Halls120 : Please point out the post where I made this so-called false accusation about a fetus being protected under the Constitution. I don't recall ever maki
84 N1120A : Isolated? 9/11 was criticized by every major Moslem regime in the world, the first condemnation coming from President Mohammad Khatami of Iran, along
85 B744F : You are playing semantics again only because your arguments hold no water
86 NWA742 : Chirpity chirp chirp. Irony never ceases to exist in this forum. -NWA742
87 B744F : My arguments hold water, you just have to understand the topics you are trying to discuss. Otherwise, what I say would probably look foreign to someo
88 NWA742 : You said the same thing about your arguments on 9/11 conspiracies, the 757 hitting the Pentagon, and chemtrails, and all that. And in doing so, you o
89 Halls120 : I'm playing semantics because I post your own inconsistent words for everyone to see? OTOH, you can't seem to answer my questions, such as asking you
90 NWA742 : I know about, and have already acknowledged that several Muslim organizations, groups, regimes, etc, condemned 9/11. Those are the isolated cases of
91 Zeekiel : I'm not sure about the news in the United States but shortly after 9/11 we got plenty of condemnation from many Muslim groups all over the world. The
92 NWA742 : Zeekiel, I would appreciate it if you actually read what I wrote: -------------------------- There are countless ways for people to publically expres
93 Zeekiel : I did read what you said. Isolated versus Widespread? That is the point I am debating. Sorry if I didn't make it clear. I know that they condemned it
94 NWA742 : I would buy that Zeekiel, but I still believe my point remains. Let me keep it more basic -- let me just say that the Muslims were, by far, the least
95 N1120A : Isolated? Every major Moslem organization in the world condemned 9/11 hours after it happened. The general Moslem public, even as they were being per
96 Zeekiel : I can reason with that however if you were to put a word association game together that would be logical tie in. It is a sad fact but unfortunately i
97 BA : NWA742, Are you able to understand or read Arabic? Do you have access to Arabic media (TV stations, newspapers, etc.)? Following 9/11, there was wides
98 NWA742 : Right. Organizations are isolated points of voice. They cannot represent the voice of the general public, now can they? How would you know our govern
99 Post contains links ME AVN FAN : No, there are IRA in Northern Ireland, ETA in Spain, there were the Red Brigades in Italy and the RedArmy in Germany, there are numerous terrorist or
100 Halls120 : The IRA has agreed to disband their terrorist wing, as you said there WERE the red brigades, and ETA in Spain and the FARC in Colombia confine their
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