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Pre-screening - Motive (JakTrax)  
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 540 times:

Hi folks,

With the turbulent weather across the UK the past few days creating some rather spectacular clouds I headed for BHX today to see what I could capture. Unfortunately the formations weren't as impressive as previous days and they just wouldn't fall into the right place, but I had a bash anyway.

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...91.821ei-xxx_bhx_130412_kn_294.jpg

Is the backdrop interesting enough to warrant this crop? This is more-or-less how the original is (I've performed only a slight crop here) so I have a little room to play. The aircraft just left of centre is deliberate, but by using a 4:3 crop I could alter this (if I could remember how to do such a crop!).

Cheers,

Karl

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 533 times:

Hello. Well to start it is a bit of a grainy shot, and the crop is a little bit too radical. The aircraft may perhaps be a touch soft. I think you should definately consider cropping it in a lot tighter, because those clouds and the quality dont warrant such a big crop. Nonetheless it is still quite nice, and stands a chance with a few minor fix ups. Good luck!

User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10029 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 530 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting JakTrax (Thread starter):
Is the backdrop interesting enough to warrant this crop?

I'd go with no. It's a nice background, but nothing too unusual. There's also noise visible in the blue and darker gray areas of the sky.

Quoting MaximLezin (Reply 1):
I think you should definately consider cropping it in a lot tighter, because those clouds and the quality dont warrant such a big crop.

Quality will only get worse with a tighter crop.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 530 times:

I've yet to run it through NR - which of course I'm reluctant to do if the motive is no good.

Karl


User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 528 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 2):
It's a nice background, but nothing too unusual

Pretty much what I thought. Real pity the clouds were much less impressive today.

A couple more (originals resized so no editing); although they are probably similarly uninteresting.

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...2.6854g-jeco_bhx_130412_kn_000.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...7.4524g-toyi_bhx_130412_kn_000.jpg

Karl


User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 526 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 2):
Quality will only get worse with a tighter crop.

Yes, but that crop is no good either.


User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10029 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 521 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 4):

A couple more (originals resized so no editing); although they are probably similarly uninteresting.

My opinion on those two is the same as the first. I like them, but doubt A.net would.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 4):
Real pity the clouds were much less impressive today.

I feel your pain. Every time I see what I think are going to be great cloud formations, I drive over to LAX and they've either disappeared, or they're really not as cool as I thought.

Then I leave and drive back home, and lo and behold, majestic cloud formations appear out of nowhere!   



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 518 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 6):
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...2.6854g-jeco_bhx_130412_kn_000.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...0.jpg

Again, these ones arent particularly bad, but they are soft aircraft and again the crop is too dramatic, with no good motive. As a general rule, unless the sky is extremely unique that day, shoot closer, and your chances will be increased.


User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 495 times:

Well, it was clutching at straws but worth a try. Incidently I hung around for sunset but of course nothing came during those 'crucial minutes'. Typically just after the sun had vanished below the horizon three lights appeared in the sky.....

Quoting MaximLezin (Reply 7):
Again, these ones arent particularly bad, but they are soft aircraft and again the crop is too dramatic, with no good motive

What crops? These are original files resized, as I mentioned. With that in mind, I'm not surprised they're soft.


User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 484 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 8):
With that in mind, I'm not surprised they're soft.

Well, they were in the queue, so I had to believe you were uploading them.  


User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 480 times:

Quoting MaximLezin (Reply 7):
As a general rule, unless the sky is extremely unique that day, shoot closer, and your chances will be increased

You mean like they were with the other 1,716 photos I have in the A.net database.......???  

Karl


User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 474 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 10):
You mean like they were with the other 1,716 photos I have in the A.net database.......???

Well, I have but one. It would be great if you could help me on some of my posts, I would greatly appreciate that, especially with such an experienced individual like you. You are treating me as if I know nothing and as if you are superior to me. I suspect you have seen my profile,with but one shot, and then come to the proud words you are saying now. I am giving my opinion, and how I see it. This is a forum where everybody, with many or few photgraphs come to share their opinion. Maybe you didnt know that I am studying to be a professional photographer? I would appreciate you being a bit more humble and treat those not as experienced as you equally. I try to be nice and as always with only one shot I am treated like nothing. Thank You.  Smile

[Edited 2012-04-14 10:22:59]

User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 448 times:

I don't frequent these forums much these days but many here will tell you that in the past I've generally been quite a helpful guy (especially where new photographers are concerned); however in a lot of threads you have been very critical of others' images, to the point of highlighting faults which aren't there. There's giving an opinion then there's telling people how to suck eggs.

I wish you luck in your training but take it from me, the only true way to properly learn photography is by experience. I have nearly 25 years' experience and am still learning. Some people have 50 years and are still learning.

Attempting to supply remedies for faults that don't exist will only make you look less experienced than you already are. We've all been new here and of course there's nothing wrong with that - but being overly vocal while you're still learning the ropes isn't going to win you many friends.

Karl


User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 439 times:

With you having 25 years of experience Im surprised you still have not learned to respect someones opinion. I am colourblind, I see the world differently,so perhaps my opinon may be wrong. To me certain things look different. This is my Opinion, and that is all. I am giving my opinion, that I express with kindess and respect. Have I ever said anything abrupt to you? How about yourself?

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 8):
What crops? These are original files resized, as I mentioned. With that in mind, I'm not surprised they're soft.

That seems rather abrupt and frankly, rude.If your such a professional with all these years experiecne, I would figure a nicer approach would be paramount to what you do. So before you start saying who is getting overly vocal, look at yourself please. I have a right to voice my opinion. I do it in a kind and most importanly respectful manner. All the things I highlight usually, Dana, comes and highlights almost exactly the same issues. Of course Dana corrects me at times, and I am happy he does that, because I realize my mistakes. But to say I wont win over friends? Excuse me? Many people say thank you for expressing my opinion, they respect it as well.You seem the only person to tell me different. Rather hypocrtical of your own policies. This is a community forum where all photographers come to voice their opinions. Arent I a photgrapher?

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 12):
There's giving an opinion then there's telling people how to suck eggs.

So how am I supposed to give an opinion? Tell me? Be abrupt? Tell people off? Give me a break. I will continue to voice my opinion, because thats what we are all here for. Read the first rule of the forum rules. It clearly says •Please respect the opinions of others and choose your words wisely. Each user has their own point of view, and these views must be respected.

Well said.

Max.

[Edited 2012-04-14 15:56:10]

[Edited 2012-04-14 16:01:35]

User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 426 times:

I really don't think you're getting my point and I'm not going to get into an argument over this. Some of your comments have been a touch condescending, and most of your evaluations inaccurate. In another thread you rather eloquently tell me that there is heat haze under the belly of an aircraft; yet what I see is a classic example of jetwash - the angle of which appears distorted due to the depth of field of a long telephoto. In another, you claim that a full-sized image is soft, yet no-one else seems to agree.

No-one minds anyone giving their opinions, but please ensure you have the facts to hand before attempting to chip in. From many of your comments so far you are trying to be supreme judge to others whose work and experience predates your own.

I may be of the 'opinion' that smoking is good for me but that doesn't mean it's raw fact. When I was new here I tried giving opinions too (I was only new to A.net and had been a slide shooter for many years) but was soon beaten down for it. In the end I realised that things work differently round here, and my experience with 35mm media didn't mean that I was automatically qualified to be an authority on digital.

Just step back and look at the long thread you recently started. You seem very sure about everyone else's images but you needed to ask questions about your own?

Just relax a little and try and ensure any comments you make are accurate and productive. You don't need to prove anything just because you are new here, and you'll find most people are more than willing to take time out to answer any photographic queries you may have. We help each other in numbers because we are all equal, and because we all make mistakes - irrespective of how much experience we have.

Karl


User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 420 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 14):
In another, you claim that a full-sized image is soft, yet no-one else seems to agree.

That image was soft because it was not full sized on my screen.When I cliked on it, it gave me a full size, which was fine BTW, Not "everbody" but just vikkyvik. I have a small screen, it does that. I get on my knees - please forgive me.
With the jetwash I thought that was not allowed, yet I learned that that type is! Oh would you look at that, I learned something new right there. If I didnt get involved, wouldnt have learned it.  
Quoting JakTrax (Reply 14):
but please ensure you have the facts to hand before attempting to chip in

There are no "facts" in the world of art. There are "facts" in physical, mathematical and biological sciences. My opinion is not fact - so is yours.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 14):
trying to be supreme judge to others whose work and experience predates your own.

Your the one who was acting as supreme being and judge to me by showing off your 1,716 phots followed by a fake smiley face, that you didnt even intend to be there. So does that mean if Dana Low, gives his opinion, does that make him supreme judge? What in the world are you taking about?

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 14):
I may be of the 'opinion' that smoking is good for me but that doesn't mean it's raw fact

You just contradicted yourself, with this and the following statement.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 14):
but please ensure you have the facts to hand before attempting to chip in.
Quoting JakTrax (Reply 14):
Just step back and look at the long thread you recently started. You seem very sure about everyone else's images but you needed to ask questions about your own?

Oh so now youre going to say that I am worse than you.An artist Cannot I repeat cannot jusge his own artwork accurately. Ok you just made yet another double standard.
I like to give my opinions. Honestly though, I would love it if i got yours, as poor Dana, has been the one having to handle all of my questions - which I applaud him for.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 14):
We help each other in numbers because we are all equal, and because we all make mistakes - irrespective of how much experience we have

Contradiction of policy once again. Anyway I dont want to argue with you either, since I respect you as a photographer. You have many incredible shots. Lets see if you can help me out. What do you think of these two shots I have in the queue. Many Thanks.

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/z1334356910.920283.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/m1334372319.621535.jpg

[Edited 2012-04-14 16:58:41]

[Edited 2012-04-14 17:00:50]

User currently offlineKaphias From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 409 times:

Quoting MaximLezin (Reply 15):
There are no "facts" in the world of art.

Then let me welcome you to the world of Airliners.net photography, where facts, science, and math generally override art. Airliners.net is an aircraft database, not a place for unique artistic compositions.

Quoting MaximLezin (Reply 15):
So does that mean if Dana Low, gives his opinion, does that make him supreme judge?

Considering the fact that he is a head screener... yes, indeed it does.

It's pretty easy to not anger people if you're new here. Ask lots of questions, don't try and answer any- leave that to the experts. When I ask a question here, I ask because I want to get the shot accepted. Who accepts shots here? The screeners. Not you. Not me. Sure you're welcome to share your opinion, but I'm not looking for opinions. I'm looking for facts. And those only come from the screeners and a very select few expert Airliners.net photographers.



Flown on: C150, C172, C206, Beaver, Otter, Jetstream 32, Q400, CRJ7/9, E135/40/45, A320, B732/4/7/8/9, B744, B752, B763
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 409 times:

Suspecting that you may be under the age of 18 I just looked at your profile and, lo-and-behold......

Like I say, I'm not willing to argue and one day you might realise that I'm trying to save you a whole load of trouble. Some of the guys of old would have pulled you apart by now, as they did with me.

I tend not to comment in many pre/post screening threads, simply because I don't consider myself qualified enough in the art of editing to give sound advice. Photography and editing are two different things, and I'm sorry to say that my editing isn't the best, despite 7 years of Photoshop experience. If, however, I see something that I am 100% positive about, I may comment. You on the other hand are commenting with some uncertainty, as you have conceded above.

An opinion has no right or wrong, yet photography is more black-and-white (pardon the pun) at times. No matter how someone's opinion goes, if a shot is blurry, it's bad; unfixable. Similarly, if a shot is over or under exposed, no amount of opinion is going to detract from the facts.

Your opinion regarding my shots above is one with which I actually agree, and on the flip side of the above argument an image's motive is definitely something that is open to opinion.

Finally, I invite you to look through my past postings. You will find that I have been helpful and understanding to those new to the hobby and seeking advice. I'm sure if many people with whom I'm acquainted here were to read this thread they'd agree. I respectfully ask that you reserve judgement until you are familiar with my history here. There are no contradictions and I have never implied that I'm better than anyone else.

Cheers,

Karl


User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 405 times:

Hi Karl, I think we have come to a consensus, and I am very pleased. Im actually 20 years old going on 21 very soon. I would really love to have good relations with you. I agree with the above post. I am also not the best editor, perhaps some of my opinions may not be the most accurate, but to be gonest I just like to have my opinion heard. Anyway, having said that can you tell me what you think of these images, I think you might not have seen them, as I edited them in a little later. Here they are

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/z1334356910.920283.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/m1334372319.621535.jpg

Cheers, and all the best,

Max  


User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 403 times:

Art is art. There are no facts in art period Kaphias. Why is Dana supreme? Thats ridiculous, Im sure he does not see himself as being supreme either. How can Science facts override artistic opinion. Someon is declined because of what the screener thought - because of his or her OPINION. I am red-green colourblind. To me red is green. You simply cannot tell me otherwise period. So, where is the fact? Who is right? How do we define good and bad? In physics, g is constant 9.8m/s^2 - that is FACT. But in my world red is green and green is red! So who is right? Where is the FACT? You get what I am saying Kaphias?

[Edited 2012-04-14 17:30:09]

[Edited 2012-04-14 17:30:31]

[Edited 2012-04-14 17:31:05]

User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 393 times:

Max,

When I first looked at your images in your thread some days ago I remember thinking that they had potential. You just need to get a 'feel' for the exact requirements here. I sometimes look back at shots taken years ago, when I was in your situation (i.e. new to the hobby), and realise little things that I was doing wrong that could have saved me a lot of effort in the long run. Things I couldn't (wouldn't?) see back then are easy to spot now, and I've realised the flaws with some techniques you tend to adopt early on.

No matter how much experience you have, you will always learn in photography. The good news is that you can only ever improve.

The shots you've linked there are promising, although the sun's angle isn't the most favourable. I seem to have this knack for managing to get the majority of my own shots right, while at the same time being seemingly unable to judge the work of others convincingly.

Karl


User currently offlineKaphias From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 393 times:

Quoting MaximLezin (Reply 19):
So Dana is supreme being? Wow, I thought we were all equal? What a joke.

In my world, on this forum, for this purpose... yes, a head screener is a supreme being, haha. We are all equal people and should be treated as such, but you have to forgive me for not seeing the relevant photography skills of some here as equal to others. Please don't try and twist Karl's use of the word equal to what you think it is. There are many uses of the word, and in this community, it would serve all of us well to assume that the person always has the best intentions.  



Flown on: C150, C172, C206, Beaver, Otter, Jetstream 32, Q400, CRJ7/9, E135/40/45, A320, B732/4/7/8/9, B744, B752, B763
User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 388 times:

Equal is equal. You cannot undermine the meaning of equal. 1 = 1 period. Its not only Karls view but everyone elses in this democratic society.

User currently offlineMaximLezin From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 385 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 20):
Max,

When I first looked at your images in your thread some days ago I remember thinking that they had potential. You just need to get a 'feel' for the exact requirements here. I sometimes look back at shots taken years ago, when I was in your situation (i.e. new to the hobby), and realise little things that I was doing wrong that could have saved me a lot of effort in the long run. Things I couldn't (wouldn't?) see back then are easy to spot now, and I've realised the flaws with some techniques you tend to adopt early on.

No matter how much experience you have, you will always learn in photography. The good news is that you can only ever improve.

The shots you've linked there are promising, although the sun's angle isn't the most favourable. I seem to have this knack for managing to get the majority of my own shots right, while at the same time being seemingly unable to judge the work of others convincingly.

Karl

Very well said Karl. You are absolutely right, everyone adapts there on ways from early on. I appreciate your words, and it would be great if you could help me out in the near future. I m just an aspiring aviation photographer. I m relatively new to this world of photography, your help would be great. We will only improve whether we are helping others or are being helped. Once again Karl, thanks alot, and I look forward to working with you in the future. I actually got my first shot on just a while ago with the help of Dana. Withou him I would have not been able to do it.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-T...d=6ddd2ea4a45eb3ef5f2d27ca015caf92
Thanks Again Karl!

[Edited 2012-04-14 17:41:46]

User currently offlineKaphias From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 378 times:

Quoting MaximLezin (Reply 23):

Equal is equal. You cannot undermine the meaning of equal. 1 = 1 period. Its not only Karls view but everyone elses in this democratic society.

Sure. But equal can be used to describe many different things- as is the case here.



Flown on: C150, C172, C206, Beaver, Otter, Jetstream 32, Q400, CRJ7/9, E135/40/45, A320, B732/4/7/8/9, B744, B752, B763
25 Post contains images MaximLezin :
26 Kaphias : All of us here should be treated as equal people. But we should not all be treated as equal photographers- because we aren't! That doesn't at all mea
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