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Topic: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: lenbrazil
Posted 2012-12-08 18:04:56 and read 3448 times.

It is my understanding is that an ATP is not required by the FAA yet (perhaps in 2013) but how likely would an air taxi/on demand charter company be to hire someone as a PIC who 'only' had a commercial certificate? I know such things can change over the years. I'm especially interested in the early 2000s

NOTE TO MODS: I was not sure whether this thread was more appropriate here or the 'Civil Aviation' forum, feel free to move it.

[Edited 2012-12-08 18:09:16]

Topic: RE: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: tb727
Posted 2012-12-08 20:50:42 and read 3387 times.

I think to carry passengers you need an ATP part 135. You don't need one to haul 135 freight to my knowledge but I could be wrong.

Topic: RE: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-08 21:52:34 and read 3360 times.

You need an ATP to be PIC of any of the following under Part 135:

- A jet airplane of any size
- An airplane with 10 or more passenger seats
- A multi-engine airplane that is used in a commuter operation (at least 5 round-trips per week on at least one route between two or more points according to a published schedule, in an airplane that has less than 10 seats and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500lbs or less)

Otherwise, a commercial certificate is sufficient, though there are experience requirements (1,200 hours - of which 500 must be cross-country, 100 hours must be a night, and 75 hours in instrument conditions, of which up to 25 may be in a simulator - to be PIC for IFR flight, 500 hours - of which 100 must be cross-country and 25 at night - to be PIC for VFR flight). There are certain specific exceptions to the experience requirements, but those are intended for flight in very rural areas (in other words, Alaska), and for specific purposes.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: 26point2
Posted 2012-12-08 21:53:18 and read 3360 times.

@Tb727. You are wrong. Don't guess if you don't know the answer.

Minimum 500 hours required to fly FAR 135 PIC (VFR only). 1200 hours required for IFR....

To answer the original question...many folks are hired with these minimum hours. I was in the '80's and I'm sure it still happens.

Edit...I see MIR beat me to the answer

[Edited 2012-12-08 21:55:28]

Topic: RE: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: lenbrazil
Posted 2012-12-09 06:43:55 and read 3250 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19001 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted Sun Dec 9 2012 00:52:34 your local time (8 hours 4 minutes 40 secs ago) and read 104 times:

You need an ATP to be PIC of any of the following under Part 135:

- A jet airplane of any size
- An airplane with 10 or more passenger seats
- A multi-engine airplane that is used in a commuter operation (at least 5 round-trips per week on at least one route between two or more points according to a published schedule, in an airplane that has less than 10 seats and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500lbs or less)

Otherwise, a commercial certificate is sufficient

I'm interested in a specific incident involving a 7 Pax King Air 100 operated by on demand charter company (thus none of the above) though the company many have had planes with more seats. Independant of FAA rules would charter companies themselves, their customers and/or their insurance companies insist on an ATP? According to one site "The ATP is required in order to be the pilot in command for an airline, corporate flight department, or charter operator. Usually required for insurance reasons..."

http://www.curtisaviationservices.com/Airline-Transport-Pilot.html

Topic: RE: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-09 09:07:04 and read 3196 times.

Quoting lenbrazil (Reply 4):
Independant of FAA rules would charter companies themselves, their customers and/or their insurance companies insist on an ATP?

Some might. Insurance can require a lot of things not required by FAR. But that will vary by operator to operator and insurance company to insurance company.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: 26point2
Posted 2012-12-09 10:34:18 and read 3169 times.

Don't believe random commercial websites. Do your research and use FAA sites for your info if you want accuracy.

Your Curtis Aviation link, for example, states an ATP is required to be PIC for corporate flight and charter operators. Simply not true (unless jet) and the minimum age for an ATP is 23.... Not 21 as your source says.

Likely the rest of the site is full of wild-as-guesses.

Topic: RE: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: tb727
Posted 2012-12-09 12:20:37 and read 3134 times.

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 3):
@Tb727. You are wrong. Don't guess if you don't know the answer.

Minimum 500 hours required to fly FAR 135 PIC (VFR only). 1200 hours required for IFR....

My mistake, not my first and not my last. I'm pretty sure he wasn't going to run out with the first answer he had on an internet discussion board thankfully.

Topic: RE: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: tb727
Posted 2012-12-09 14:20:28 and read 3105 times.

BTW I had a situation a few years ago with this matter(which is why I did my original post) and actually just texted the guy about it. Apparently what I stated was true in the fact that to fly freight you don't need an ATP 135 according to him, you are not able to do eligible on demand operations or DoD flights or anything like that so it's pretty restrictive. So apparently it is possible per one Designated Examiners interpretation of the rule, I looked at the rule and would agree that you by just reading it that you do need one but there may be a loop hole I am not seeing in looking at quick on the FAA website. That's why I said what I said, it was not a wild guess but it was in fact based on an event having to do with someones first type ride.

Topic: RE: Is A ATP Necessary To Be The PIC Of An Air Taxi?
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-09 14:30:48 and read 3103 times.

Quoting tb727 (Reply 8):
Apparently what I stated was true in the fact that to fly freight you don't need an ATP 135 according to him

That's not the way I read the rule.

Quoting tb727 (Reply 8):
So apparently it is possible per one Designated Examiners interpretation of the rule

It's no secret that Flight Standards isn't standard, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone out there was going by different interpretations, but I would tend to think that they are firmly in the minority (perhaps a minority of one).

-Mir


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