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Topic: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: JumboJim747
Posted 2012-12-01 02:12:24 and read 6990 times.

What are some sayings you don't hear much anymore between pilots and atc.
The one that comes to my mind is an operational saying ¨Cleared at takeoff ¨ pilots could easily mistake it for cleared for takeoff as we saw with the KLM accident at tenerife.
What are some others

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Wilco737
Posted 2012-12-01 02:30:04 and read 6986 times.

Quoting JumboJim747 (Thread starter):

In the US the tower said for many years: "Taxi into position and hold". This has changed now to the standard: "Line up and wait".

wilco737
  

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: JumboJim747
Posted 2012-12-01 03:13:40 and read 6959 times.

Hey Wilco hows things.
Is this line up and wait what all countries use or just a select few.
I know its used here in Australia also.
Cheers

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Wilco737
Posted 2012-12-01 04:00:00 and read 6935 times.

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 2):
Is this line up and wait what all countries use or just a select few.
I know its used here in Australia also.

As far as I know it is like that in most countries. I can only think of the US where it was different. But I haven't been everywhere 
So maybe there are countries out there who does it differently.

wilco737
  

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2012-12-01 04:01:38 and read 6934 times.

Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 1):

What was the rationale for the change?

Thinking about the Tenerife disaster (where unclear phraseology played a role):

- as long as I hear "taxi", I'm restricted to taxiways
- as soon as I hear "line up", I can move onto the runway?


David

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Wilco737
Posted 2012-12-01 04:32:06 and read 6921 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4):
What was the rationale for the change?

I don't know. But they changed it about a year ago or so. Maybe they recognized they were the only using different phrasiology than all the others...

wilco737
  

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: 26point2
Posted 2012-12-01 07:21:17 and read 6855 times.

Here's one: I haven't heard ATC say to "Report the outer marker" for years. They now say to report a fix usually identified by GPS. Maybe this is just a change in the US....not sure. Anybody reporting the marker any more?

[Edited 2012-12-01 07:22:09]

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Wilco737
Posted 2012-12-01 08:01:51 and read 6826 times.

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 6):
Anybody reporting the marker any more?

You are right, haven't heard that for a long time. Most of the time it is 'report XXXXX' or 'repost 6 miles out', but the outer marker is dying out...

wilco737
  

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: JumboJim747
Posted 2012-12-01 08:05:33 and read 6824 times.

Yes i agree with that havent heard that for a while.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2012-12-01 08:53:07 and read 6802 times.

Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 5):
I don't know. But they changed it about a year ago or so. Maybe they recognized they were the only using different phrasiology than all the others...

That's why they did it...the FAA has been excited about runway incursions for several years and they realized they weren't helping themselves by using a different phrase than everyone else.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-01 10:02:03 and read 6759 times.

Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 1):
"Line up and wait"

its normally "Line up and hold" out here.......

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Wilco737
Posted 2012-12-01 10:06:25 and read 6756 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
its normally "Line up and hold" out here.......

Never heard that in India myself. I always heard "line up and wait"....

wilco737
  

[Edited 2012-12-01 10:17:17]

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-01 10:11:48 and read 6754 times.

Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 11):

Never heard that in India myself. I always head "line up and wait"...

Oddly heard the phrase only last night......

Another common one thats decreasing is the typical "Namashkar".....esp with the AI Crew.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: 26point2
Posted 2012-12-01 10:52:55 and read 6729 times.

Another: ...perhaps a stretch....In the US we no longer hear ATC say temp in Fahrenheit. Some of us still miss the old SA (METAR) and FA (TAF). Nothing wrong with metric but temp in F is what the US still uses (like it or not) almost exclusively outside of aviation.

At least we're not using Octas...yet.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: AKiss20
Posted 2012-12-01 13:29:47 and read 6643 times.

Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 7):
Quoting 26point2 (Reply 6):
Anybody reporting the marker any more?

You are right, haven't heard that for a long time. Most of the time it is 'report XXXXX' or 'repost 6 miles out', but the outer marker is dying out...

You will still hear "Maintaing xxx knots until the OM" occasionally

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Bellerophon
Posted 2012-12-01 20:18:17 and read 6487 times.

JumbpJim747

It's over nine years since I last heard this:

....Speedbird 1 at UPGAS climb in the block FL450 - FL600, accelerate Mach 2....

     

Best Regards

Bellerophon

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: JumboJim747
Posted 2012-12-02 00:24:54 and read 6393 times.

Oh yes the concord.
What a sad thing no one will ever hear that again.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: unattendedbag
Posted 2012-12-02 02:27:41 and read 6354 times.

Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 1):
This has changed now to the standard: "Line up and wait"

This is an accepted ICAO phrase. The FAA has changed several of it's "laws" to better fit with ICAO standards.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: ThirtyEcho
Posted 2012-12-02 19:26:58 and read 6171 times.

"Turn left to XXX for radar identification."

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: IRISH251
Posted 2012-12-03 14:52:06 and read 5913 times.

Don't know when I last heard the request "what's your [VOR] radial and DME from XXX?"

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Pihero
Posted 2012-12-03 16:06:22 and read 5878 times.

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 16):
Oh yes the concord.
What a sad thing no one will ever hear that again.

Some ATCOs still allow climbing cruise between LAX and Tahiti PPT. So "cleared block 350 to 390" is still heard.

All the Q codes have completely disappeared : Last ones around are QNH / QFE and that's about it.
GGP, number in the approach sequence is still talked about , QFU, runway orientation -just the number nowadays...
Gone is the QGO :,closed due to weather, killed by Cat III B !

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2012-12-03 16:54:07 and read 5851 times.

Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 1):


In the US the tower said for many years: "Taxi into position and hold". This has changed now to the standard: "Line up and wait".

wilco737

Which, whenever I heard it, was always abbreviated to "Position and Hold". I used to love acknowledging a Position and Hold clearance when I was giving kids a ride in the Cessna for the first time  It just sounded so cool...  

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: atct
Posted 2012-12-03 22:06:36 and read 5761 times.

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 18):
"Turn left to XXX for radar identification."

It usually "Turn thirty degrees left/right for radar ident" and I say it at least once a week. Its used for aircraft that are negative transponder and there are alot of those up here in Alaska.

atct

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Max Q
Posted 2012-12-04 01:01:32 and read 5713 times.

'The no smoking sign is off'

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-04 01:34:22 and read 5703 times.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):

'The no smoking sign is off'

Brilliant.......  

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2012-12-05 01:41:14 and read 5843 times.

Well most have moved on from calling airports aerodromes or airfields but there are still many pilots who use those terms... sounds very military/pre-jetage.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-05 18:54:47 and read 5695 times.

Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 3):
Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 2):
Is this line up and wait what all countries use or just a select few.
I know its used here in Australia also.

As far as I know it is like that in most countries. I can only think of the US where it was different. But I haven't been everywhere

Canada also used the US wording until fairly recent years. Not sure but I believe Canada may have adopted the ICAO wording "Line up and wait" before the US did.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-05 19:14:03 and read 5825 times.

"Keep your shoes on"


Jimbo

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: longhauler
Posted 2012-12-05 21:10:49 and read 5782 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4):
What was the rationale for the change?

The US, (and Canadian) phraseology of "Cleared to position and hold" (which meant taxi ONTO the runway but don't take off) was too confusing with the ICAO, "Cleared to holding position", (which mean taxi to, but HOLD SHORT, of the runway).

Now that "line up and wait", has replaced "cleared to position and hold" there is less confusion.

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 19):
Don't know when I last heard the request "what's your [VOR] radial and DME from XXX?"

Every day in the Caribbean!

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: IAHFLYR
Posted 2012-12-06 06:39:25 and read 5651 times.

Not many NDB approach clearances out there in the U.S.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 9):
That's why they did it...the FAA has been excited about runway incursions for several years and they realized they weren't helping themselves by using a different phrase than everyone else.


Very true however; many runway incursions were not caused by "position and hold" rather by folks simply not stopping at on the taxiway when they were told to "hold short of Runway XX on Taxiway XX" after reading the clearance back to the controllers.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-12-06 08:14:56 and read 5630 times.

I have not heard a "security security security" transmission in a long long time, not even sure if a lot of the younger pilots would know what it means.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Boeing77W
Posted 2012-12-06 09:21:53 and read 5598 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 30):
I have not heard a "security security security" transmission in a long long time, not even sure if a lot of the younger pilots would know what it means.

I've heard it a few times in the UK. Mainly from Scottish ACC.

I'm still yet to be told an official definition so if you wouldn't mind sharing...  bigthumbsup 

[Edited 2012-12-06 09:26:31]

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-06 09:47:46 and read 5565 times.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 27):
"Keep your shoes on"

Where was that used?.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: saafnav
Posted 2012-12-06 10:10:58 and read 5556 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 30):
I have not heard a "security security security" transmission in a long long time, not even sure if a lot of the younger pilots would know what it means.

Please inform us!

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2012-12-06 10:26:06 and read 5557 times.

How about, "The Captain would like to see you."

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-12-06 10:32:25 and read 5561 times.



Quoting zeke (Reply 30):
I have not heard a "security security security" transmission in a long long time, not even sure if a lot of the younger pilots would know what it means.
Quoting Boeing77W (Reply 31):
I'm still yet to be told an official definition so if you wouldn't mind sharing...     

To do so probably contravenes the Official Secrets Act.  

[Edited 2012-12-06 10:32:51]

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: xjramper
Posted 2012-12-06 11:40:50 and read 5504 times.

Decimal in lieu of point. "Contact xxx approach now on 131 decimal 75."

Contact Meigs tower.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: jumbojim747
Posted 2012-12-06 19:20:07 and read 5375 times.

What about hold outer marker?
Is it me or have they stopped using that one.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-12-06 19:36:58 and read 5392 times.

Quoting Boeing77W (Reply 31):

I'm still yet to be told an official definition so if you wouldn't mind sharing...

Quoting some relevant regulations...

"Safety signal

(1) The safety signal shall be transmitted when an aircraft wishes to transmit a message concerning the safety of navigation or to give important meteorological warnings.

(2) The safety signal shall be sent before the call and:

(a) in the case of radiotelegraphy shall consist of 3 repetitions of the group TTT (— — —), sent with the letters of each group and the successive groups clearly separated from each other; and

(b) in the case of radiotelephony shall consist of the word ‘SECURITY’, repeated 3 times."

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: 320tech
Posted 2012-12-06 20:01:01 and read 5370 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
Which, whenever I heard it, was always abbreviated to "Position and Hold". I used to love acknowledging a Position and Hold clearance when I was giving kids a ride in the Cessna for the first time  It just sounded so cool...  

I always abbreviated it to "To position". The controller never questioned whether I was going to hold or not. Now I just say line up and wait, which definitely lacks in the cool department.

I was told the reason it was changed was because some unfortunate pilot heard the instruction as "to position and go", which was not the right idea.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: xjramper
Posted 2012-12-06 20:33:20 and read 5360 times.

Quoting jumbojim747 (Reply 37):
What about hold outer marker?
Is it me or have they stopped using that one.

Love that outer marker, don't ya?  
Quoting 26point2 (Reply 6):
Here's one: I haven't heard ATC say to "Report the outer marker" for years. They now say to
report a fix usually identified by GPS. Maybe this is just a change in the US....not sure. Anybody reporting the marker any more?
Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 7):
Quoting 26point2 (Reply 6):
Anybody reporting the marker any more?

You are right, haven't heard that for a long time. Most of the time it is 'report XXXXX' or 'repost 6 miles out', but the outer marker is dying out...

wilco737
  
Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 8):
Yes i agree with that havent heard that for a while.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: jumbojim747
Posted 2012-12-07 00:45:57 and read 5321 times.

Dont know what got over me but completely forgot it was bought up sorry about that.
And yes love the outer marker  

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: BE77
Posted 2012-12-07 02:36:53 and read 5306 times.

"Navigator next heading please", etc.
"Engineer say status of engines", etc.
"Stewardess please bring me a coffee"

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: longhauler
Posted 2012-12-07 06:58:14 and read 5257 times.

I used to think that SCATANA was an unnecessary thing of the past .... until September 11, 2001.

I will never forget being over the Canadian prairies calmly sipping a coffee when Winnipeg ATC broadcast ...

"Attention, SCATANA is now in effect, I repeat, SCATANA is now if effect, all aircraft must last as soon as possible while the Department of Defence takes over control of North American airspace". I looked at the F/O, blinked, and asked "Did I really just hear that?"

For the record, SCATANA has since been replaced with ESCAT.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2012-12-07 09:15:23 and read 5213 times.

Quoting BE77 (Reply 42):
"Navigator next heading please", etc.
"Engineer say status of engines", etc.
"Stewardess please bring me a coffee"

Or "Climb Power!" to the Flight Engineer or First Officer.

[Edited 2012-12-07 09:15:49]

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: saafnav
Posted 2012-12-07 12:29:59 and read 5151 times.

Quoting BE77 (Reply 42):
"Navigator next heading please", etc.
"Engineer say status of engines", etc.
"Stewardess please bring me a coffee"

We still use it all the time luckily... Unfortunately, we only have loadmasters for coffee, not hosties, so it remains stricktly coffee only 

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: BE77
Posted 2012-12-07 13:24:44 and read 5108 times.

Quoting saafnav (Reply 45):
We still use it all the time luckily

Well, with more and more integrated services, nothing says there can't be women as loadies or drivers either!

Sorry all - I admit I was only considering civil transport for all three of these - not to disrespect those in blue or green painted aircraft!

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2012-12-07 17:52:02 and read 5051 times.

Waay before my time, but how about
"Six Turning, Four Burning?"  

Bonus points for whoever names the aircraft that goes with that  

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: longhauler
Posted 2012-12-07 18:32:14 and read 5016 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 47):
Bonus points for whoever names the aircraft that goes with that

Convair B36?

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Jetlagged
Posted 2012-12-07 18:32:44 and read 5035 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 47):
Bonus points for whoever names the aircraft that goes with that

Convair B-36D (and later variants).

You don't hear port and starboard for engines these days, nor inner and outer when you have four of them. Engines are just numbers now.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-07 20:46:19 and read 5001 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 38):
(b) in the case of radiotelephony shall consist of the word ‘SECURITY’, repeated 3 times."

I thought it was officially "Securité, Securité, Securité "

BTW, I do still here this in a marine context (and the French pronunciation) when on my boat, to warn of large ships entering or leaving the channel.


Jimbo

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: saafnav
Posted 2012-12-07 22:54:53 and read 4986 times.

Quoting BE77 (Reply 46):

Well, with more and more integrated services, nothing says there can't be women as loadies or drivers either!

Sorry all - I admit I was only considering civil transport for all three of these - not to disrespect those in blue or green painted aircraft!

Haha no problem.

We have a female Navigator and one female C-130 Commander in South Africa, but the loadmasters are still men only - due to the heavy lifting etc.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: NWADC9
Posted 2012-12-10 23:46:17 and read 4366 times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3Z8Oz9NgH4

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: C172Akula
Posted 2012-12-11 07:05:47 and read 4290 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 43):
I used to think that SCATANA was an unnecessary thing of the past .... until September 11, 2001.

I will never forget being over the Canadian prairies calmly sipping a coffee when Winnipeg ATC broadcast ...

"Attention, SCATANA is now in effect, I repeat, SCATANA is now if effect, all aircraft must last as soon as possible while the Department of Defence takes over control of North American airspace". I looked at the F/O, blinked, and asked "Did I really just hear that?"

For the record, SCATANA has since been replaced with ESCAT.

That's a good one, I was supposed to go up for a flight that morning during my instructor rating. Everything happened before the flight, but the flight school got the fax indicating the SCATANA plan was in effect. I made a copy and have kept it as one for the personal history books.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: longhauler
Posted 2012-12-11 09:33:01 and read 4218 times.

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 53):
I made a copy and have kept it as one for the personal history books.

Great idea! I laminated and mounted the Data-link.

Our crew ... me, the F/O and three F/As still meet every year on September 11. It was an awful week to be away from home, that was made easier with company.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: B777LRF
Posted 2012-12-11 13:00:22 and read 4118 times.

Flight Engineer: Captain! We seem to have lost engine no. 3.
Skipper: On which side?

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: tb727
Posted 2012-12-11 15:25:50 and read 4050 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 44):
Or "Climb Power!" to the Flight Engineer or First Officer.

Not for those of us lucky enough to still be flying steam for a living 

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2012-12-11 15:53:55 and read 4045 times.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 55):
Flight Engineer: Captain! We seem to have lost engine no. 3.
Skipper: On which side?

I guess I always heard the B-36 version:

Captain: "Feather three!"
Flight Engineer: "Which three?"
 

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-11 17:43:32 and read 4026 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 57):
Quoting B777LRF (Reply 55):
Flight Engineer: Captain! We seem to have lost engine no. 3.
Skipper: On which side?

I guess I always heard the B-36 version:

Captain: "Feather three!"
Flight Engineer: "Which three?"

Related excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the B-36:

Much more than other large aircraft powered by piston engines, the B-36 was very prone to engine fires, to the extent that some crews changed the phrase "six turning, four burning" into "two turning, two burning, two smoking, two joking, and two unaccounted for."

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-12-11 20:30:13 and read 3985 times.

Quoting xjramper (Reply 36):
Decimal in lieu of point. "Contact xxx approach now on 131 decimal 75."

Maybe in the US, but decimal is certainly used in other countries. Just head up to Canada and you will hear decimal instead of point. Just one of the many differences between US ATC and other nations around the world.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-12-12 00:06:45 and read 3911 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 59):
Maybe in the US, but decimal is certainly used in other countries.

"decimal" is the ICAO standard.

Topic: RE: Aviation Sayings You Dont Hear Anymore.
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-19 02:47:09 and read 3283 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 59):
Maybe in the US, but decimal is certainly used in other countries. Just head up to Canada and you will hear decimal instead of point. Just one of the many differences between US ATC and other nations around the world.

Isn't it universal?.

[Edited 2012-12-19 02:47:39]


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