Dear Tech.Ops Friends -
xxx
I constantly run across designations of aircraft that I am really not familiar with, such as 73G... I assume that these are "travel agents" designations, which probably are published in directories like the OAG or ABC...
xxx
For me, took me weeks of visiting the A.Net to finally realize that a 742 is a 747-200, or that a 763 is a 767-300... I remember that typical airline timetables use abbreviated designations like D10 for DC10, but my IQ stops there and I am lazy when in comes to make a "midnight requisition" of an OAG from the airport operations office to bring home...
Could you type the abbreviate designations with the full designation, please?
xxx
You see, pilots use generally complete designations and suffixes when some specific types are mentioned... so your turn to educate me, I always like to learn...
xxx
Happy contrails  
(s) Skipper

73G is one of the more rare terms for the 737-700.
73NG (Next Generation) is the broad term for the 737-600, 700, 800, 900.
737WG, 737WN, or 737WL is the term for a 737-700 or 800 with Winglets.
73A or 72A is the term for an Advanced 737-200 or 727-200.
75S is sometimes used for the 757-300.
306 is the term for a A300-600
32X is the broad term for the A318, 19, 20, 21 family.
A3CJ is the A319 corpret jet.
A34NG is the term for the A340-500 and 600.
A388 is the A380-800.
EMB70, 75, 90, 95 is the term for the new Embera 170, 175, 190, 195.

I add more when I think of them. I'm sure others will help.

Educate another stupid pilot. Are these "terms" listed above from some sort of official source, like the OAG or something ATC might use? For example, my aircraft is designated 712 (for 717-200) on the flight plan, which corresponds to the FAA/ATC list of designators for aircraft types. So, I'm curious if the above terms are "official", or are they A.Net jargon, or a combination of both. I ask because I'm pretty sure that there is no "737WL" FAA designator for ATC use, but it could be referenced as such in some other source.

The Airbus 330/340 are often referred to as 332, 333, 343, etc.

They are the "official" designations for timetable publishers such as OAG and travel agent reservation systems.

Maybe me and Sinlock above are talking about slightly different things, but for timetable and 'travel agent' purposes, they are all 3-digit alpha-numeric 'codes' for each aircraft type. Of course there are other aircraft type codes in these reservation systems which more accurately describe the aircraft type for seating-plan purposes (ie. number of F class, J class and Y class seats etc) but they are used more in the "back-end" of the system.

For instance, I just searched for a flight with AR from EZE to JFK for tomorrow and here is what Amadeus.net gave me:

Aerolineas Argentinas
AR 1300 Ministro Pistarini (EZE), Buenos Aires, BA, Argentina 22:30
John F Kennedy Int'l (JFK), New York, NY, USA 08:20 + 1 day(s)
Non-stop
340 10h50min N/A Yes Yes

Sorry about the formatting (it was in a table from left to right) ... but you can see the code buried in there 340. That means an undetermined version of the A340.

The search also shows UA (United) flying from EZE to IAD that day with a 763 (767-300) and connecting to JFK on a J41 (Jetstream 41). Easy...  

From my dealings with OAG, I can give you some examples of the codes:

744 - 747-400
742 - 747-200
747 - 747 - could be any one or they have't decided yet / subject to change.

738 - 737-800
73G - 737-700/NG
734 - 737-400
735 - 737-500
733 - 737-300
737 - 737-200 or can be used as "all series" if there is likely to be a last minute 'version' swap.

320 - A320
321 - A321
32S - A320 Series (A320/319/321)
333 - A330-300
343 - A340-300

100 - Fokker 100

EM2 - ERJ (I think ... been a while since I saw this one)
EMB - Embraer Brasillia

M80 - MD-80 Series (covers most variants in my experience)
D9S - DC-9 (may be other designations too)
M11 - MD-11
D10 - DC-10

T20 - Tu-204
TU5 - Tupolev 154
TU3 - Tupolev 134
YK4 - Yak-40
YK2 - Yak-42
ILW - Ilyushin 86
IL9 - Ilyushin 96-300
IL6 - Ilyushin 62
IL8 - Ilyushin 18
AN4 - Antonov 24


... does that help?

M717,

These designations do not have to equate to the ATC end of flying. If they do, its just a coincidence, but they never have to be 'reconciled' with eachother.

The codes are just used by the 'front end' of the res systems.

Amadeus.net lists one of tomorrow's flights from ATL-MIA:

Airtran Airways
FL 501 William B Hartsfield (ATL), Atlanta, GA, USA 11:30
Miami Int'l (MIA), Miami, FL, USA 13:19
Non-stop
717 1h49min Yes Yes Yes

Even though your flight plan might say 712 ..and another one:

American Airlines
AA 1715 William B Hartsfield (ATL), Atlanta, GA, USA 14:00
Miami Int'l (MIA), Miami, FL, USA 15:56
Non-stop
M80 1h56min Yes N/A Yes

His flight plan might say M87 (or anything else!). They never have to match.

Sorry about the formatting again. The last 3 bits of info refer to seating classes: Yes (1st class is available), N/A (business class doesnt exist), Yes (economy class is avaliable).

You can have a play with the system for yourself: www.amadeus.net

Ben,

Thanks for the reply. It was very helpful. Those designators you posted are more or less what I'm familiar with, and virtually all I have ever seen have been in that 3-digit format, which is why I was asking about the "737WL" and others.

Thanks again.

Anybody know the official FAA flight plan for some of these?? E.g. the king air 90 is BE9L (why the L, i have no clue), the CRJ is CRJ2, 717 is B712....

For atc designators see Chapter 5 at
http://www1.faa.gov/atpubs/CNT/CNTHME.HTM

Here is what i found. These are official id's for flightplans

KingAir 90: BE9L
Beechcraft 200 Kingair: BE20
BAC111: BA11
Jetstream 31/32: JS31/JS32
L1011: L101
TU154: TT154
Metro 3/23: SW4
Dash 8-100: DH8A
Dash 8-200: DH8B
Dash 8-300: DH8C
Dash 8-400: DH8D
Twin Otter: DHC6
BA146: BA46
ATP Turbo: ATP
Beech 1900: B190
ATR 72/ATR 42: AT43/AT44/AT45/AT72
707: B701/B703
747SP: B74S
Gulfstream 2,3,4,5: GLF2/GLF3/GLF4/GLF5

Amen Skipper...


I posted the same request in the civil forum with the use of airline designations... I know the majors but its a headache to see a topic like

"XZ orders 763" and you have to do a translation just to get the topic is it htat much harder to type it out..

The main response i got (from armchair pilots) was that everyone knows that SQ is singapore airlines and that FL is airtran and HP is America West etc...

I work in the real avaiton industry I fly real planes (even if they are bugsmasher cessnas) I have always admired the professionalism of this forum and its members.

Psst, Wilcharl...
xxx
I have to tell you, I dont know much about airline codes, airplane registrations, airport codes or type designations... I am "THE" stupid pilot...
xxx
My son is a 13 years old student pilot and airplane enthusiast. Last week, as I came back from a trip, is asked me "Papi, what plane you got on the way in?"
I said... "I dont really know"... I knew my flight number, sure, since we use it as call sign, but, honest, I had no idea which plane (registration) it was...
xxx
It is wonderful how some friends here know all these details, few pilots really seem interested to know about them... We call our planes our "287s" because our planes are 747-287B, sometimes we have other 747s in the fleet...
If you would tell us "You are pilots on that 742...?" - we probably would not know what your question is...
xxx
Happy contrails  
(s) Skipper

Hey Skipper,

I have to agree with you. When I first came to this site and saw all the different designations, I was a bit surprised. I thought I had a pretty good handle on things and then all the "aviation geeks" here (please, no offense intended) showed me that I had a thing or two to learn. Believe me, none of the guys I work with use the designations that are so common here. It's OK though; any day that I learn something new is a good day.  

737doc

EM2 - ERJ (I think ... been a while since I saw this one)
EMB - Embraer Brasillia


The EM2 is the Brasilai, the EMB, the Bandeirante.

I remember calling TWA once to find out what A B3F was. I'm old and know, does anyone else? Very easy really.

Naw Skipper, it sure is not stupid. You deal with something rather different than the OAG codes.

Dear Skipper and All; Just being ole prop guys, we still hang around with a lot of our fast driver buddies and and figured out the (sometimes) simple common (slang?) used for Boeing jetliners a way back:

The first two numbers, IE:
72 = 727,
74 = 747,
71 = 717 (urg)
73 = 737
etc.

the /third/ number simply designates the series,
72/2/ = 727-200,
74/3/ = 747-300,
75/3/ = 757-300,
76/2/ = 767-200
and so on.

Skipper's designation of a 747-287B being a "287" would have me running around for a lot of time trying to decipher that.

I must admit to trying to be "cool" 20 years ago when introducing a good friend to locals with a "He drives the new forty-sevens for American Airlines". My friends were impressed, but, later Bob asked, "What the hell is a forty-seven? Oh, the seven-four". At least I got the term "driver" right, but man did I feel stupid big-time.

Hope I didn't bore y'all. Kind regards...Jack

My biggest complaint is the Airline codes. Some just make no sense. I had no idea that "HP" was America West. and "B6" for Jetblue. Why not just "JB"? It makes no sense at all. Honestly though, I think that pilots dont really need to know what the exact type is. I mean, who cares if its a 717-2BD or a 717-23S? All you know is its a 717 and you gotta fly it like one. Codes are more relevant to the maintenance side. A -23S may have a certain configuration that might make a difference in some type of service procedures or overhaul. and of course it means a lot to the Marketing guys!


bruce

I suppose we all use too many abbreviations and accronims and you wonder if everone knows what all the terms really mean. Some of the technical terms for example. Most of us will know that VOR is used for navigation and are happy with it, but how many people know what VOR stands for? There are other terms for similar pieces of equipment, HSI, HSDI, ADI, AI etc.

The thing is, if you don't ask you will never know and if one of the most experience members has to admit to being a 'stupid pilot' then it is not going to hurt anyone else to ask a question in the future. Very few posts remain unanswered here. Thankfully.

There are four character aircraft designators which are official ICAOish. You learn them quickly working the ramp. Then forget half of them just as fast.  

Here's a somewhat outdated Eurocontrol Document listing them.

Cheers,
Fred

Could those be official ICAO or IATA codes ?

See the site below :

http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk/acrtypes.htm

Regards
BrusselsSouth

Oh, s'justa buncha TLAs and ETLAs...  

Cheers,
Fred

Dear Friends -
xxx
Obvious that we tend to abbreviate everything...
Sure, makes sense to call a 747-200 a... 742. I am not against that at all.
But that does not tell me much about "which" kind of 747-200...
If you write the full type designation, many will know, i.e.
(1) Configuration of aircraft (passenger, or combi, or freighter...)
(2) Original owner of that aircraft
(3) Systems options (how many tanks, weight limitations, etc...)
(4) Type of engines - P&W, GE or RR...
xxx
Telling me "a 747-281" tells me it is a ANA aircraft, with CF-6...
Telling me "a 747-287" tells me ARG, 10 tanks configuration, with JT-9...
To me, designation " 742 " is quite "general"...
Like saying BMW 700 - which one...? - 728, 735, 750... quite different,,,
xxx
Thanks a lot for your help in lifting the fog in my brains  
(s) Skipper

Skipper,
interesting only (with a few exceptions) to the guys who fly'em and those doing the maintenance... oh, and the ever-present anoraks of course!   ATC, rampers etc just want to tell at a glance what they can expect to deal with. Different strokes for different folks! The vast majority will not need to know, leave alone care about, the fuel tank configuration for most aircraft they encounted. Those are the ones ICAO provide with a convenient standardised shorthand.

While typing, I realise that you are already fully aware of this. But hey, there is a wider audience here so posting anyway.

Cheers,
Fred

can't say if I saw it being mentioned above, but

BWIA used to use L15 on its tickets....

L15 - L1011 -500

One that ain't going to be around for much longer :-

SSC - SuperSonic Concorde

 

"Stupid Pilot" indeed-

This is the first time I recall where our jumbo friend is asking, rather than answering, a question.

xxx

(what a copycat I am)...

xxx

Wish me luck on my IFR checkride...

Nobody's perfect...
Ask my wife - she says I am so stupid, she cannot figure how it is possible that I fly airplanes...
xxx
Women, I tell you... I wish they came with an operating manual...
xxx
(s) Skipper  

That would be great if they did Skipper. Then you'd have limitations, emergency procedures, weight and balanace, endurance, handling instructions, etc.

Skipper,

"Telling me "a 747-281" tells me it is a ANA aircraft, with CF-6...
Telling me "a 747-287" tells me ARG, 10 tanks configuration, with JT-9..."

Knowing that the last two digits does specify an airplanes customer, don't quite know how to figure out that 81 means ANA with CF6.

For example... 747-4H6 are the 747-400s delivered to Malaysian Airlines. However, this designation was given for all their 747-400s, regardless of engine type (both P/W and GE) , or passenger/combi configuration.

Another example is 747-2D3.....

Does this number tell you that it is an ANA 747-200F with GE engines.

Just wondering....
Thanks



[Edited 2003-06-27 12:28:58]

Doing a weight and balance on your wife definately sounds like a good way to end up on the couch or in divorce court.

Dear Shenzhen
xxx
Sure a Boeing customer number would not tell me what type of engine, just that the 81, as an example which I know is ANA, also tell me it is CF-6 because I know ANA was a GE customer for all their planes back then...
xxx
747-200 does not tell me anything, putting the 281 number helps me a lot...
xxx
(s) Skipper