Spoke2Spoke From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 190 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2937 times:
I would venture to guess that these flights on occasion have a full second flight crew on-board to be in position for a return flight. With a 12 hour limit (maybe 13?), it doesn't sound like those crews do out-and-backs.
Therefore, a return crew needs to be put in position, obviously the first time and perhaps also when cancellations occur and aircraft stack up on the other side of the pond.
...carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks. - Wilbur Wright
Rick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 52 Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2698 times:
Remember those limits apply to the FAA (US Operations). Over here in the UK we have quite different rules and rarely require additional crewmembers for flights to and from the USA (apart from West Coast destinations where 1 relief pilot is carried).
The worst I used to do was a 767-300 UK to Cancun, Mexico, which was about 10h 30m flight time depending on the wind and over 11h 30m on duty. Perfectly legal with just the two of us up front under UK ops.
In fact it was a lot easier than a MAN-TFS-MAN which was a similar total duty time, since with CUN you got a beach for a week at the end of it!
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
CO2BGR From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 558 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2381 times:
OSL is the only current destination that carries a 3rd pilot year round. LIS has carried a seasonal 3rd pilot (in the winter when the winds are stronger). ARN, TXL,and HAM will have third pilots year round when they are started. BRS may have a seasonal third pilot as well.
The relief pilot rides over (dead head) to europe without relieving the pilots on the redeye when the pilots could use the break, and then relieves the pilots on the return in the daytime when the pilots dont really need the break. FCO is the only destination that the 3rd pilot works on both legs.
There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town with too much bloody money" Randal Raines- Gone in 60 Seconds
Max Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3293 posts, RR: 19 Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2023 times:
Actually I find I need the break far more on the return flight than going over, which, unless it is a very late departure is just a late night, arriving by 2-4 am est, conversely coming back in the 'daytime' you can be getting up at 1 30 in the morning in your time zone and facing a long flight home in your physiologically lowest state of the 24hrs after questionable sleep.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.