FSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 16 Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2183 times:
Today was a nice overcast day, and I decided to head to the FBO, fire up the Cherokee, and head out to South Bend, Indiana for some nice IFR-ing for my logbook... 50 kts headwind there. Got back in a flash though with that tailwind!
Anyways, I wasn't pleased with the departure experience I had. I had filed a flightplan, got a different clearance (as usual), but right after departure, ATC told me to join a radial from Detroit VOR. This isn't a big deal, but the VOR was on the other side of my folded chart, and I don't know the VOR freq. since I've never used that VOR before. So, I'm climbing out, entering a layer of overcast, and I have my chart all over the place trying to open it up and find the freq. The ride started to get bumpy (sloppy control from being distracted was a factor), and I just stopped to focus on the plane. After I broke out I found the frequency and continued the flight.
I like things to go smoothly when I'm flying, naturally. When I found myself with a huge open jepp low-enroute as I'm climbing out into IMC, searching for a frequency and letting the plane get sloppy, it occurred to me that I wasn't "doing it right."
They always say aviate, navigate, and communicate, but I wonder how many of us actually do that. Well, I learned my lesson. It wasn't a huge deal, I just look back on it and think "geez that was bad flyin' on that climbout."
Anyone go through this chart madness often as well? Those charts are too damn big
Goboeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2584 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2025 times:
At first, I tried to keep the charts in pristine condition. Maybe it was because it was my first set or two of the particular chart I was using and I wanted it to keep it for reference once it expired. Regardless of why, I have given up and I now treat the chart like the tool that it is. What good is a nice looking chart if you bust airspace?
So in response to your fumbling for the chart in IMC predicament, I just fold the chart so that it has the departure airport and the first part of the flight. I don't know what else there is to do in a general aviation airplane, besides put the flight plan into the GNS430 in flight plan mode and set the autopilot up!
Futureualpilot From United States of America, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 2445 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1973 times:
Ill usually pre-fold the chart to my departure airport, and know where to open and fold it to when it comes time to turn it over. I also put on a sitcky-pad of paper any freqs for VORs, decent sized airports, and comm facilities I may have to talk to on the chart for quick reference. Yes, it is one more piece of paper but it has saved me from flipping my chart all over the place.
My friends dad made he and I a nice print-out chart to slip in our knee-boards of all the local airports and VORs as well, which came in handy many times.
Cancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 15 Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1967 times:
when i started flying i too treated charts with respect. now they're my bitch and just get tossed around the cockpit and used for sunshades when necessary. i dont worry too much about how i fold them while they're in use though. also, i only unfold one or two sections at a time, that usually helps keep down clutter. i love laughing at the new students that open those damn things all the way when doing flight plans. just makes it all harder. like you said FSPilot747, fly the thing first.
i'll never forget the story one of my instructors told me about another instructor at the school i rent from. he was flying back to FRG from some place in PA and was given an intersection to fly to by ATC. now, he was using his brand new gps and didn't have the intersection in the db. so he went for his charts. problem was that the charts were in the baggage compartment in his flight bag. not a problem for john as he trimmed the plane, took off his headset, climbed over the seats, looked for the charts, found the intersection, then clambered back into the left seat to tell atc exactly what he had done when they asked him why he didn't answer thier call. well they were callign him to tell him that he just recieved direct routing to FRG.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
Sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4884 posts, RR: 32 Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1959 times:
Cancidas: Love your story, reminds me of the time when I was getting down to the real stuff at the end of an IFR trip- as I descended into the clouds in the terminal area (Houston), lots of vectors and altitude changes, I suddenly had- and I mean HAD- to make use of a Restop 1. Amazing how difficult it is to (1) handle the "plumbing"; (2) monitor the ATC; (3) respond to same, including calls and heading changes.
====
As to the original topic, controllers are people too; if they give you an instruction you cannot instantly comply with (like, intercept the XYZ 156 radial) becasue you have not yet gotten the freq dialed in or located the VOR, just ask them for an initial suggested heading while you get it all set up. In my experience, they are always helpful. This happens most often when they clear one "direct [intersection]" when you have not the slightest clue where (say) "BUBBA" intersection *is*. Better to ask than to try to be cool and scramble around trying to figure it out, in real time.
Like when I was flying to SAT, and got cleared "Direct Corpus"; I was looking for an intersection on my way (what.... "CRPIS"? "CRPUS"? "CORPS"?) that remote;y matched the phonetics, finally gave up and asked. The controller told me, "Direct Corpus Christi" with a tone in his voice like I was... well, not smart. So I told him "Five Papa Juliet's destination to day is San Antonio, not Corpus Christi. He (with a chuckle in his voice) re-cleared me direct the IAF for the approach I was using at SAT.
Just ask, It is good to know.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
Wing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1551 posts, RR: 27 Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1898 times:
I am sure that happened to all of us whether flying C152 or a B747.Although as a pilot its very helpful to stay infront of your airplane and plan ahead sometimes situations can develop different than you planned previously.It also happens a lot during airline flying where you are flying in an area that you are not very familiar.ATC clears you direct to a fix which is not included in your flight plan or on the FMC.Although we have a lot more experience to quickly finding an unknown fix,when time is crucial or dealing with language(accent) difficulties ,I don't hasitate to ask the ATC to spell the name of the fix.
As all of you very well know we should fly the thing first,stay safe.To do it we should get every help available.If we have someoneelse ask him to find it or if flying alone dont hesitate to ask the ATC.Dont forget that they are there to help you so don't be emberassed.
You really will forget if you feel embaressed on the channel not knowing the name of the VOR but you can never forget if you put your self in a dangerous situation while fighting with the chart.Happy Flying to all of you.WING.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10039 posts, RR: 75 Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1888 times:
I've heard a story about an old acquaintance of mine, but have not seen him in years so I can't verify it. I'm told that he was flying, single pilot up the east coast somewhere and got a hold enroute in the Carolinas. On the outbound leg of the holding pattern he sees an airport below and so, with an EFC time thirty or forty minutes later, he decided to land. He has a cup of coffee and a piece of pie, then climbs back up into the holding pattern to learn that ATC had been trying to contact him for twenty minutes. Good story.
I flew single-pilot IFR in Cessna 402, 404 and BE-18s many years ago. Some of the aircraft had autopilots, but GPS did not exist for general aviation. The sort of distraction you are talking about can be a problem. Headset and boom mike was a huge help. Having the checklist clipped someplace where you did not have to touch it anymore was a good thing. Charts were another matter.
The Jepp IFR planning chart has a lot of VORs on it, and your entire flight might just cover a couple of panels. For sure, I would not hesitate to ask the controller to clarify or spell or anything else I needed to make sure I could comply with the clearance.
One more thing that a lot of us forget from ground school. Production airplanes have positive stability. If you have the thing trimmed for the current configuration and speed, you should be able to let go of it for thirty seconds or so without worry. I say this because if you have to get your head down into a flight bag to find a chart or something you just might be better off with NO hands on the yoke for a few moments. No unwanted flight control inputs that way and you have two hands for the other task which should make it happen quicker.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
RDUBE90Pilot From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 63 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1847 times:
You can also just ask for the VOR frequency. That's all you needed to intercept.
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