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Reverse Thrusting In The Air--possible?  
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6613 posts, RR: 20
Posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7616 times:

I believe the answer is NO--the Lauda Air crash!! But my co-worker (a non-aviation type) insists that it is a normal routine to reverse thrust while airborne. Set him straight please.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7587 times:

Depends on the type of aircraft.

The DC-8 used the reversing of two engines in flight as a speed brake.
I have seen them popped in the flare on other types but they did not fully deploy and spool up until after touchdown.
With some, it might be a very bad thing.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7580 times:

I know of several people (unrelated to each other) who claim that on the approach into a well known Southern Californian international airport, (San Diego) that its perfectly normal for the aircraft to "turn the engines off completely so there is no engine sound at all" on approach, and that the aircraft goes into reverse on very short finals (before - and they were very specific about this) the gear touches down. All three people are amateur interested aviation types - anyone else heard of this. FYI the occurence happened on a 737 all three times, Southwest, United, and Alaska in case it matters...


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineC172heavy From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7567 times:

727LOVER:

There are a number of previous posts on this subject that you can access througth the SEARCH pulldown at the top of the page, but the simple answer seems to be yes, it is POSSIBLE. But not generally accepted, other than in the flare, as SlamClick pointed out.



"How's that working out for ya?....Bein' clever?"
User currently offlineGoboeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2725 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7565 times:

I think they have great imaginations!  Smile Maybe bad eyes and ears too? If you stand right under a jet, sometimes it's surprisingly quiet but not that quiet! And they'd have to re-start the engines during this maneuver, it sounds like!

Nick

Edit: I am referring to CHRISBA777ER's post.

[Edited 2004-11-17 18:55:24]

User currently offlineBellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 585 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7572 times:

727LOVER

Sorry, but you're the one who may just need a little straightening out! Big grin

Concorde, Trident (HS121) and DC-8 were three types that could use reverse thrust in the air.

I have used reverse thrust in the air many times over the years, and whilst the approval to use reverse thrust in the air may be an unusual feature, that exists on only a few types, on those aircraft for which its use is approved, it is both a safe and useful feature, with none of the problems that some would have you believe.

The use of reverse thrust in flight on a type where it is not approved, is a completely different matter, and is about as stupid an action as is possible in aviation.

Should you survive, you deserve all that's coming to you.

Regards

Bellerophon

[Edited 2004-11-17 18:56:26]

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7555 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

I believe the C-17 has this capability as well.


2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7521 times:

The IL-62 will crack the buckets prior to touchdown.

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7518 times:

"Concorde, Trident (HS121) and DC-8 were three types that could use reverse thrust in the air."

On the two inners for the DC-8-- ditto for the Concorde?

Just on the center engine for the Trident?

And no twin can use reverse in the air?


[Edited 2004-11-17 19:31:22]

User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7419 times:

ChrisBA777ER- I've also known pax to ask F/As on an F28- "Why is the engine shut down?", thinking that since the inlet guide vanes aren't turning, the engine must be off. One F/A told that she replied that it was to save fuel during cruise, and the pax bought it! Don't believe anything a passenger tells you, even if they like airplanes, chances are 98% they are mistaken.

User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7404 times:

Chances are that if the aircraft is not certified for inflight reverser it will be impossible, under normal, non-malfunction circumstances, to deploy the recersers. The aircraft I'm familiar with have an air/ground circuit interlock (electrical) that prevents reverser deployment in the air.

User currently offlineEfohdee From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7371 times:

What about turboprop aircraft? Can any turboprops reverse thrust inflight??

User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7356 times:

Yes, some turboprops can reverse inflight, often with disastrous results. There was a mod a few years back on the Dash8 to cause a Godawful horn to sound if you selected a power lever setting below flight idle. However, it is still possible to use reverse. I've read of incidents and accidents where reverse was accidently used on descent, resulting in prop overspeed, and at least once, propellor and gearbox failure, i.e. falling off the aircraft.

User currently offlineSkysurfer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 1137 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7299 times:

Wasn't there a DHC-5 Buffalo that crashed at an airshow a couple of years back (Farnborough???) due to the props being selected to 'reverse' pitch??

Any info or corrections are very welcome

Cheers




In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7283 times:

The NASA Gulfstream II is also modified to enable inflight reversing, which it needs while simulating shuttle approaches...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offline747NUT From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7104 times:

I believe the 737 NG can deploy T/R 10 feet above ground.
It gets its signal through the radio altimeter



If it's not broken, don't fix it !
User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7026 times:

Which may e g reflect off clouds. Hm. You sure?

Cheers,
Fred



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6991 times:

i've engaged the reverser on the C208 caravan inflight a few times. this was only for a matter of a few seconds to slow down on a steep final. (flaps full and spoliers up)

now some people tend to mix up reversers and reverse thrust. it is possible to open the reversers to use them as speed brakes. the IL-62, TU-154, C-5A and C-17 come to mind. to my knowledge, the only a/c that is actually capable of using reverse thrust inflight is the NASA gulfstream.



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3086 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6984 times:

Real simple. If you shut the engines down you have no reverse thrust. In reverse thrust the engines are still running...

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineC172heavy From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6884 times:

Skysurfer:

Is this the a/c you speak of?


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Photo © Robin McInnes
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Photo © Robin McInnes



If so, the only cause of crash given in the Remarks was a strong, gusty tailwind and a steeper than normal approach. (Farnborough, 1984)



"How's that working out for ya?....Bein' clever?"
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6871 times:

I remember a discussion many years ago at work about if T/R could be delibrately operated on a B732, & yes it could provided a sequence of actions were performed,Like using the T/R override,Landing gears Down,Thrust levers at Idle & Reverse thrust levers deployed.
Although under normal circumstances there were safety features In built to prevent an accidently or errornously deployment.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTripleDelta From Croatia, joined Jul 2004, 1124 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6868 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Miamiair is right. Il-62s do, sometimes, open the reversers to slow down on final.


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Photo © Howard Chaloner
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Photo © Johan Ljungdahl



Probably during fast or high-angle approaches they need to slow down and slow down quickly. Though I assume the stress in the engine pylon is great, plus the pylon having to carry 2 engines...



No plane, no gain.
User currently offline747NUT From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

"Which may e g reflect off clouds"

I presume you are referring to the rad alt reflecting off clouds ?
Not likely otherwise you would be getting all sorts of GPWS warnings going off during flight, can you imagine the chaos with a "pull up, pull up" warning at 30 000 feet ?

Cheers Mike



If it's not broken, don't fix it !
User currently offlineBellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 585 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6760 times:

Timz

...On the two inners...ditto for "the"...( Embarrassment , ouch!)...Concorde?...

Correct.

And traditionally just "Concorde".  Big grin


...Just on the center engine for the Trident?...

No, not on the centre engine, only on engines 1 & 3.

Best Regards

Bellerophon


User currently offlineAviadvigatel From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 23 hours ago) and read 6573 times:

Keep an eye out for the new series on Discovery Wings - Classic British Aircraft. On the show with the VC10 and Trident, on ex Trident pilot talks about when he used reverse thrust in flight to descend from 20,000 feet in 3 minutes for a late landing approval.

Programme is on Tuesday nights at 9pm (UK), and repeated on some other evenings. Knowing Wings, it will probably be repeated for the next 5 years!


25 Planespotting : When i sat in on a new hire ground school at southwest one of the new guys asked the instructor if they could use reverse thrust while still in the ai
26 2H4 : I remember a discussion many years ago at work about if T/R could be delibrately operated on a B732, & yes it could provided a sequence of actions wer
27 Tbanger : The Saab 340 has what is known as "Flight Idle Overide Stop". What does it do? Well exactly that! There is a stop that activated via a microswitch pre
28 747NUT : " The airplane would have one engine going at about 50% N1 and the other going about 75% N1 in reverse.What do you suppose the consequences of the air
29 10MID : In a turboprop, a lot of the propwash goes over the horizontal stabilizer. Going into reverse, which on some planes is physically possible, disturbs t
30 Post contains images SLCPilot : Here's another plane that was designed for the use of reverse thrust in flight. It was supposedly capable of ridiculously steep descents.... I never s
31 Jetstar : On the Lockheed JetStar, while reversers were not certified for use in flight, there was no real safety features to prevent this. All it took was the
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