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Snow Tires On Ac's?  
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Just like a car, do ac's also have special tires? I mean for extreme conditions (using YYZ or YUL) come to mind. But like a car, if you use a snow tire the whole year round, the tire will wear out. So I was wondering what ac tires are like and how frequently they get replaced. I can find a lot of information about landing gears, but never specifically about tires.

Can someone help me?

Thanks

ktachiya


Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTreg From Estonia, joined Oct 2001, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2284 times:

Latest news from Michelin: NordicFrost 1500 with studs. Fits well on your latest 747-400....

Sorry, couldn't resist!  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2219 times:

Remember that planes do not get traction from their tires, they just roll on them and use them for braking. The "tread" requirement would not be like automotive tires at all.

I've only ever seen one set of "ice tires" for a DeHavilland Beaver. They had the tread rubber impregnated with short pieces of very fine wire. I don't know how well they worked since we never mounted them. They would shred your hand if you brushed it over the tread.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4915 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Taxiing around YYZ or YUL is not much different than taxiing around NRT, (I have done both). Snow or ice is very rarely left on taxiways or runways, and if it is, it is removed as quickly as possible.

Using charts for takeoff or landing on snow covered runways (rare but happens at YYZ), is not much different than using the same charts for landing on a lot of standing water (rare but happens at NRT).

When a winter storm arrives in YYZ, (a few times a winter) things slow down, as usually only half the facilities are available. The other half is being cleaned so we WONT have to land or taxi on snow/ice covered surfaces.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1642 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2180 times:
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Back in my military days, my unit operated Boeing C-97's and they all had main tires embedded with pieces of fine wire. This was for braking traction on slippery runways.

These tires all had the standard grooves for water dispersal to prevent hydroplaneing.

These tires were all recapped so the metal pieces was added during the recapping process.

As stated above if you pressed you hand against the surface of the tire you would have numerous punctures in your hand.

Changing tires was no problem because we used a wheeled tire cradle to install the tire assembly on to the aircraft and also wore heavy gloves.


User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2168 times:

I've got a studded snow prop for my 152. When it really gets bad I put prop chains on.

 Big thumbs up



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2167 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dariusz Jezewski


Airplane snow tires.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineContact_tower From Norway, joined Sep 2001, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2155 times:

No need for snow tires, and there is a need to taxi/take off on snow/ice.
Complete removal is not possible if the temprature is below the working range of the chemical systems.

This is an example of how good it's possible to get it in certain arctic conditions.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anders Forseth




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anders Forseth



User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

>>>Remember that planes do not get traction from their tires, they just roll on them and use them for braking. The "tread" requirement would not be like automotive tires at all.

SlamClick brings up a good point, and one that some folks (including some of those in the media) forget, i.e. taking automotive analogies too far...

I was with Air Florida when we lost the 737 at DCA back in 1982, and one TV station immediately aired their "the cause" of the crash as there being so much snow/ice on the runway that Palm 90 couldn't get any traction for takeoff. I mean, it's not like tires with studs or chains would have helped, since there's no driveshaft from the engines to the wheels...  Insane

In winter (airline) ops, top-notch snow removal works better than any theoretical special tires...


User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

I mean, it's not like tires with studs or chains would have helped, since there's no driveshaft from the engines to the wheels...

Well, studs would have helped steering traction (directional control). I don't know what the situation of was in the crash, so it may not have helped anyway.



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineLeanOfPeak From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

According to the accident report, the aircraft was still on the runway when it took off. However, the airframe was iced up and at least one engine was not developing full power.

It had nothing to do with traction.


User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1635 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

I read somewhere once that most aircraft tyres are retreads, and rarely are brand new ones used. However, I am in no position to say whether this be true or not, it's just something I read, in Flight if memory serves me well.
Spencer.



EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4915 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2093 times:

Yes, that is true, a lot of airlines use retreads. But for the record, they are not bargain basement tires, and (at my company anyway) it is procedure to x-ray all retread tires before use.

We lost a DC-9 at YYZ many years ago due to the delamination of a retread tire, thus the start of the x-ray rule.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineJetRanger2000 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

What do you do, take the tires to the TSA checkpoint at the airport and run them through the baggage scanner?  Smile

User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

I keep getting this image of George Kennedy in the movie airport taxing a stuck 707 in the snow. Put your trust in thrust and pray there is no ice under you.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineKAVL From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

OK, I have a related question
On takeoff roll, traction is not important,
but when landing on snow covered runways, if they
are allowed to get that way in the first place, how does
an airplane brake without sliding all over the runway?

 Smokin cool

[Edited 2004-12-20 10:35:13]


Once you have tasted flight, you will walk with your eyes turned skyward, for it is there you long to return - da Vinci
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

OK, I have a related question
On takeoff roll, traction is not important,
but when landing on snow covered runways, if they
are allowed to get that way in the first place, how does
an airplane brake without sliding all over the runway?


Calculations change. The required runway lenght is much greater. Even on slippery runways there is some traction. Anti-lock brakes help. You can brake to the max AND steer at the same time. Also above 80 knots or so the rudder still works.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1878 times:
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A common misconception about auto snow/ice tires is that they are needed just for motive traction (and therefore useless on an aircraft). But braking and directional control are far more important -- that's why they recommend putting snows on all 4 wheels now, even on 2WD cars. Four wheel drive maniacs get a nasty surprise when they get their SUV's up to a high rate of speed on a snowy road and then spin into the ditch because they haven't grasped elementary physics.

The best brakes in the world are useless if there's no "traction" where the rubber meets the snow covered road, and while I'm in no way knowledgable about aircraft tires, I'd bet the aircraft would benefit from a different tread pattern/rubber compound for snow/ice conditions.

[Edited 2004-12-20 18:24:20]


Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
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