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Really Strange DME Arc Approach  
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10373 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

I ran across this approach...a DME arc with stepdowns enroute, terminating at the runway:






I've never seen anything like this...is this the only airport with such an approach? If not, what other airports use it? I suppose it could be an examiner's dream or a student's nightmare.....


2H4


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35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10331 times:

DME Arc approaches aren't too uncommon. There are quite a few of them in the midwest at airports that don't have a navigational aid nearby. They aren't very difficult to fly. The only downfall to them is that they get a little lengthy if flying the full procedure.


DMI
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10321 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

.....Yeah, but with stepdowns along the arc?


2H4



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User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10311 times:

Seems like a DME arc approach wouldn't provide very desirable horizontal guidance accuracy for an approach. But then again, it has very high minimums.

User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10274 times:

Yeah, I haven't seen one like that before. Not too hard, just requires some thinking. Of course the Missed is pretty insane. I have never ever seen a DME arc to the Missed Holding Point. Adding to the nerves is the fact that a screwup on this one garners you an escort.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineXXXX10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10163 times:

Can I ask , where is the runway? is it just clockwise of 068 radial

User currently offlineS.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 966 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10146 times:

XXXX10,

Look at the right side, the runway is between radials 060 and 068, close to the +/- 181 obstacle...

Weird procedure indeed, not my choice on a wet and cloudy night

Cheers




"ad astra per aspera"
User currently offlineRaivavae From France, joined Jul 2001, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10134 times:

a real weird procedure indeed!
Not very precise, as on an Arc DME you're doing very well if you're+/- 0.1NM, and you're permitted up to +/-0.5NM, lucky you are if you see the runway!


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10127 times:

Ouch, that looks like a fun one when you're solo on a crappy night.....looks like even more fun to *try* to put this approach into the FMS  Laugh out loud

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10107 times:

How well do DME Arc procedures work in an FMS? I know in the Garmin GNS 430/530 GPS units, all you have to do is load the procedure and everything is in there - it will even change the course in for the CDI so that you just keep the needle centered all the way around and it will get you there.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4194 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10103 times:

Whoa! That missed approach is pretty crazy. That is definitely an examiner's dream. Never seen anything like that approach either.

With an FMS or Garmin..that stuff is freaking easy though, haha.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineIanatstn From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 577 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10081 times:

Without the aid of a FMC/FMS, how difficult is a DME arc approach to perform? Can anyone give me some tips, as I will try to recreate this approach in my flight simulator.

Cheers,
Ian.



Ian@STN ::
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10073 times:

Ianatstn,

DME arcs may look intimidating at first but after some practice, they are not tough at all....just another instrument procedure. The thing that would make this approach difficult for most instrument pilots is that I'd guess many of them have never seen anything like it before. I personally have never shot an approach like this one either. But, if you're on top of things for arcs and are instrument current/proficient, it would just take a few minutes on the ground looking it over beforehand and a good briefing to be able to easily fly it.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

I don't know which I'd like less, botching that one up and driving the plane into a hill, or driving it into one of those restricted areas.


DMI
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10039 times:

Out of curiosiry, I just loaded it into my MD-88 FMS practice software...on the STAR pages for KBWI, they only had ILS and DME approaches for Rw 15L...I loade the DME one, and it took you right to the IAF, SLOAF, then on down to the runway...didn't look to different, but then again, it didn't have this particular DME Arc approach in there, so looks like you'd have to put it in/fly it manually.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10031 times:

Thats one of my favorite approaches!!!!

It honestly isnt too bad to do, you just descend instead of holding your altitude (I kinda like DME archs!). Though ive never flown a DME arch in MS Flight Sim, its probably harder to do than there in a Frasca  Wow!

For those trying to recreate it, just download the chart from the FAA:

http://naco.faa.gov/

Happy Flying!

GreatChecko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineRaivavae From France, joined Jul 2001, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10028 times:

arc dme approaches are quite common in France, but only for initial approaches, then it ends to a classical vor radial in the axis of the runway. I have never seen an arc dme up to threshold!!!! Go around procedures seems not too crazy for me!

User currently offline10MID From Singapore, joined Aug 2004, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days ago) and read 10023 times:

Haven't seen an approach with an arc that is the entire approach, but many Mexican airports have arcs with stepdowns. Of course, those lead to a straight final approach course.

User currently offlineJzucker From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9957 times:

Thats my favorite approach...my instrument students can fly that with their eyes closed by the end of their training! HA!

Merry Christmas to you all!


User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9923 times:

DME Arcs are cake with an RMI. I don't think I know exactly quite how to shoot one with just the VOR. its been a while.

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9888 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

If any of you can find any particularly odd approaches that would rival this one, go ahead and post them here. It would be interesting to see what everyone can come up with.


2H4



P.S. - FSPilot747...are you by any chance a UM Flyers member?



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User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9864 times:

2H4, nah I'm doing my Comm. out of Aviation-Center, next door to UMFlyers. Are you in Ann Arbor?



FSP


User currently offlineEfohdee From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9846 times:

The arc is the final approach course! Most DME arcs transition to a final like an ILS. This one is just an arc to the MAP. Also the only final approach that is not straight!

User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 9776 times:

I must say the approach itself is indeed a bit weird, since it does not offer a straight final, but then again, a DME arc is not more complicated to fly than tracking an NDB really, so it shouldn't pose a big problem to any pilot...

Comming to look at it, it even seems a nice approach to fly!  Smile

Does that missed approach look complicated???
Then you better don't come to France, because what you see depicted on the chart (i.e. follow a DME arc to enter a holding over a waypoint) is a rather common missed approach procedure at French airports (even mayor ones)!


[Edited 2004-12-26 21:29:00]

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months ago) and read 9747 times:

Another a.net member sent me this, but have a stab at this beast....


Have fun at it!  Big thumbs up

DeltaGuy


25 Post contains images 2H4 : My brain hurts. 2H4
26 Post contains images DeltaGuy : Almost looks like those Japenese cartoons that give you siezures I had *some* of it figgured out, it took a good brief from another a.net member to he
27 XFSUgimpLB41X : Greetings from that other a.net member.... Flyf15 sent it to me... took me a while to figure it out...its kinda pointless all the different turns..id
28 Post contains images 2H4 : its kinda pointless all the different turns Perhaps it was created to spite the local NIMBYs. 2H4
29 Regional757 : 2HK, i was looking hard and i just got the approach. i was looking and i was like "where's the runway?". now i get it. that is a weird approach. the m
30 Woodreau : I guess I'll take a stab at it and yall can tell me if I got it wrong. If you do the 15DME arc or do the approach from holding at TASMAN then the appr
31 Hmmmm... : What kind of approach is this?
32 Greenguy01 : Is this video taken at FAT??
33 Hmmmm... : Yes, it was taken at FAT
34 Post contains images Corey07850 : "Hmmmm..." It just looks like a visual approach where the pilot was able to make a "short approach". Instead of making a long, drawn-out, squared off
35 Post contains links Hmmmm... : Thanks for your explanation, Corey07850. I'm sorry the moderators disconnected the video feed that I piped right into the thread. So here is a link fo
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