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Any Radar In Cockpit Other Than Weather Radar?  
User currently offlineCaptainTim From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8704 times:

This may be a topic that has already been covered or is very ignorant...

"Are there any radar onboard in the cockpit of the heavys (747, A340 etc.) that shows details about other planes in the surrounding area providing (call sign, altitude, distnace and maybe even speed) instead of weather?"

Like some captions on the photos says like "there is a A340 3000ft below us heading to ORD" etc. like how do the pilots know this information? is this relayed to them on ACARS or via ATC or via a radar?

Becuase all i've seen soo far on airliners are Flight Deck Weather Radars:


View Large View Medium

Photo © Shawn Damphousse



thanks
tim

[Edited 2005-01-15 04:08:32]


Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8655 times:

That's part of the TCAS system, I believe. Has to do with collision avoidance.. While you can see the weather, that is only one setting on that particular panel.

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineCaptainTim From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8644 times:

then will other settings on the particular panel (weather panel as shwon on the picture) show a radar with information about flights around this aircraft?

i'm not sure
thanks



Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8636 times:

Its called TCAS, traffic collison avoidance system. The transponders in the planes talk to each other to let them know where the other one is, and if necessary how to avoid each other. As for other radars, there is the radar alitmeter.

User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 789 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8619 times:

Be sure to know that the TCAS system and the weather radar are two seperate systems and operate independently. It just so happens that they can both be shown on the same screen at the same time. It's nice how technology has progressed over the years.  Smokin cool


You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8609 times:

You arent kidding LFT 10 years ago who would have thought that a similar system (tis and nexrad) would be on 172's!!!

User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8511 times:

APFPilot1985,

It is not a RADAR Altimeter. It is a Radio Altimeter system. Though they operate on the same concept (transmit, return, measure), the radio alitmeter operates on a different frequency level than the weather RADAR system.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8414 times:

there is the radar alitmeter.
You mean Radio Altimeter.
A beam is send out below the Aircraft,strikes the surface & returns,The time spent is calculated to detrmine the Height.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8329 times:

Well, it is called Radio Alitimeter. But the acronym for RADAR is radio direction and ranging. So by using radio waves for ranging, you ultimately do have primitive radar providing range on a specified azimuth... hehe


A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineAirbusCanada From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8288 times:

A beam is send out below the Aircraft,strikes the surface & returns,The time spent is calculated to detrmine the

in that case, where the hell does the beam returns? the plane is movieing at 500MPH?


User currently offlineMikeyUSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8268 times:

And the beam is moving at the speed of light, approx 186,282 miles per SECOND... the beam is down & back before the plane has gone very far  Smile



User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8262 times:

the Radio altimeter is set facing down below the a/c, the frequency of operation is around 4200-4400 MHz which makes it SHF ( super high frequency) it detecs the difference between the lowest part of the a/c and the terrain below, and i think the lag is something within micro seconds....

it is an extremely important radar system onboard, as the CAT 2 and CAT 3abc all use the Radio Altimeter for position information after descending below 200ft, possibly more important than AWR..

hope this helps


cheers



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineCaptainTim From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8245 times:

does anybody have pics of the TCAS??

tim



Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8202 times:

Hi,

This picture was taken by a friend on mine that used to fly the 744.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Julian Whitelaw



You can see on the PFD little diamonds. Each little diamond represents an aircraft picked up by TCAS (only squawking aircraft will show up). The caption details the system a little, but to add, I believe the closer they are to a potential conflict, they change colour to the corresponding risk level, and if necessary, a Traffic Advisory (TA) or Resolution Advisory (RA) is issued. At this stage, TCAS RA's are only issued in the vertical plane (ie, begin or change rate of ascent/descent). Further developments may see RA's involving the horizontal plane.

Also, TCAS can only see something like 4500' above and below the aircraft, and a range of 40nm. 40nm at cruise speed of 450kt (closure speed of 900nm/hour) equates to 2min 40 seconds till meeting (assuming head-on of course)...




A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8198 times:

Also, for the radio altimiter, it only reads when below 2500' AGL.


A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineCaptainTim From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

Speedbird128 thanks a lot.. never found that photo cuz maybe its descritpion didn't include 'TCAS' which i searched for on TCAS. thanks a lot

but if anyone can asnwer one final question before this forum dies, what happens when a plane Squawks? i read about it that ti activates some type of transponder telling other planes of their location and other navigational infomrmation?

thanks
tim



Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

A beam is send out below the Aircraft,strikes the surface & returns,The time spent is calculated to detrmine the Height.

Wrong. It's called a "radio" altimeter and not a "radar" altimeter for a reason. It doesn't use pulse signal return timing like a radar does.

An "ramped" FM modulated continuous signal is transmitted towards the ground. The signal bounces off the ground and is received by a receiver antenna that detects the signal and determines the difference between the current transmitter modulation frequency and the frequency of the received signal modulation. That coincides wthh the distance to the ground.

There are some lower cost single antenna systems that work on the same basic principles, except the antenna must switch between transmit and receive. Because of the delay induced by the switching these single antenna radio altimeters can only read down to about 40 feet. Dual antenna systems can read down to the ground.

Captain Tim,

The term "squawk" relates the the transponder replay. Mode A/C transponders that have been in use for decades can "squawk" the selected code, the aircraft's altitude and "ident" which is just a mode that allows positive identification of a radar target when the pilot presses the transponder "ident" button.

The new Mode S transponders are capable of transmitting much more and as ATC evolves more is being added to the squawk stream from the transponder.

One last thing...

NEXRAD is a service available for aircraft with compatible receivers and displays. It allows for the display of weather and other information uploaded from ground stations. It is not a form of on-board radar but is capable of displaying "radar" information uploaded from other sources.

[Edited 2005-01-17 04:17:44]

User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2461 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8082 times:

Here's a pic from my profile:



The one that I am trained on has lightening detector, weather(NexRad), terrain advoidance system, and traffic advoidance.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineLemmy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8015 times:

in that case, where the hell does the beam returns? the plane is movieing at 500MPH?

Quick calculation by an English major (read: probably incorrect) says that a plane flying at 2,500ft AGL at 140kts will have moved .014 inch by the time a radio beam makes the round-trip.

But according to Airplay, this really doesn't matter since a radio altimiter uses a continuous beam.



I am a patient boy ...
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8014 times:

But it does matter since (paraphrasing Airplay) the signal is timed by the change in frequency modulation. It still requires a beam to go to the ground, return, and the time that took to be quantified in some manner.

As Lemmy says, the distance covered waiting for the signal to come back is inconsequential. Like, you don't need to adjust a logo light so that it will still point at the tail when you are doing M.82 Aiming it while standing still shall be adequate.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7911 times:

But it does matter since (paraphrasing Airplay) the signal is timed by the change in frequency modulation

I never used the term "timed". The frequency of the demodulated received signal is compared to the reference frequency. There is no "timing" done.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7900 times:

Airplay I have long felt that the engineering curricula in colleges was a little too focused. Once again you have done nothing to dispel that idea.

Some high school level English:

Par"a*phrase, n. [L. paraphrasis, Gr. ?, from ? to
say the same thing in other words; ? beside + ? to speak: cf.
F. paraphrase. See {Para-}, and {Phrase}.]
A restatement of a text, passage, or work, expressing the
meaning of the original in another form, generally for the
sake of its clearer and fuller exposition; a setting forth
the signification of a text in other and ampler terms; a free
translation or rendering; -- opposed to metaphrase.

In putting the word "timed" in italics I was setting it apart for an example. You are correct; you did not use the word "timed." If your English skills were up to your educational level you would have understood that the your description of how a Radio Altimeter works was grammatically, and factually flawed. You said:

An "ramped" FM modulated continuous signal is transmitted towards the ground. The signal bounces off the ground and is received by a receiver antenna that detects the signal and determines the difference between the current transmitter modulation frequency and the frequency of the received signal modulation. That coincides wthh the distance to the ground.


Now a moment's thought about this would tell you that the difference between the "current transmitter modulation frequency" and the "frequency of the received signal modulation" is going to be in Hertz or cycles per second or something like that. The distance to the ground is going to be in feet.

So how do Hertz and feet "coincide.?" By knowing the rate of change over TIME of the "current transmitter modulation frequency."

In other words this will not work without some reference to measured time. In other words it is timed. Just because it uses a time-indexed FM change instead of a simple timer does not mean it is not being timed.

I would never presume to quarrel with your engineering knowledge. If you are going to debate what is essentially a point of language you might recognize the limitations of your education.

The signal is timed.
It is "timed" by the rate of change of the frequency.
If the machine did not know what the rate of change over time was it could not work as it does.
However it works, the yardstick by which it is made to work is the knowledge of how long it will take a radio beam to travel to the surface and reflect back. The rest is just mechanics, detail.

edit: spelling


[Edited 2005-01-18 20:26:50]

[Edited 2005-01-18 20:28:54]


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7788 times:

Slamclick,

In your attempt to make me look like an idiot, you just expose your own ignorance.

When one "paraphrases" one shouldn't lose the fundamental meaning of the original statement. That is exactly what you do when you use the word “timed”. It is not “timed”. That is the point. When you use the word “timed” you take from the fundamental theory of operation of the system. As a layman perhaps you don’t understand the significance of the use of the word “timed” here.

Before you chose to get pissy again, I suggest you review the definition of “paraphrase” you provided. You obviously misused it in this case.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7781 times:

Look Airplay we both know that the reason you even bothered to take issue with my Reply #19 relates to our sparring in other threads in the past. What I said in #19 does no offense to your words, and in no way deceives the people who come to this forum to learn how things work. It matches the "free translation or rendering" part of the definition of paraphrase just fine.

It would match the definition entirely if one condition was met: That condition is if a radio altimeter functions because of the constant - the length of time it takes a radio wave to travel to the ground and return from a given height above the ground. In other words the speed the wave travels. Speed = distance traveled OVER TIME.

So your entire argument with me is based on denial of that premise. In having any dispute with me whatever you are stating that a radio altimeter does not use the length of time it takes a radio signal to travel to the surface and be reflected back based on the airplane's height above that surface.

Is that your statement?
Is that not the constant that makes the radio altimeter work?
Now, personally I believe that that you are so stubborn that you are willing to deceive the readers here rather than admit it.

If a radio altimeter functions in some manner that does not index it to the passage of time, please post it. I'll have engineer friends explain the parts I don't understand.

It would not be truthful or accurate to narrow the definition of "timed" down to where it relies on reference to my Seiko watch. Timing is done any number of ways where a rate of change is known, and it doesn't matter if it is ice melting, counting gear teeth or changing a frequency. So long as it references a "rate" it is still timing.

So be an adult about this. Either tell the readers here that a radio altimeter DOES NOT USE the length of time it takes the beam to travel to the ground and return as a benchmark or admit that it does.

One or the other.




Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7742 times:

Slamclick,

First of all let me say that I have better things to do than to post for no other reason than to "spar" with you. People come to the Tech/Ops forum for accurate technical facts. I provided accurate facts and you provided confusion. I deliberately avoided reference to timing because radio altimeters DO NOT “time” anything. They use an FM continuous wave and measure along the wavelength of the modulated signal.

Relating the entire process to time is misleading. I’m not saying that it can’t be related to time but only in the same context that any radio wave can be. We don’t however speak of a VOR “timing” anything.

I’ve tried to come up with an analogy of a radio altimeter system to help you to understand.

Take a tape measure and remove the tape from the holder. Form a loop and feed it through two pulleys. One at ground level and the other directly above it as high as it can go (4 feet for an 8 foot tape measure)

I think we can agree that if you hold your finger horizontally anywhere along the length of the tape measure and read the numbers on the two segments sitting side by side, we can derive the distance between our finger and the ground. Now start spinning the tape measure loop around the two pulleys. Again, we can derive the distance between our finger and the ground by comparing the two numbers that instantaneously appear on the tape segments next to our finger. This is fairly representative of what is going on in a Radio Altimeter system.

Is any “timing” taking place here? Nope. If we tried really hard, can we describe the function of the tape and pulleys with respect to time? Probably. But to what end? Just to add confusion? Just to try to explain something in irrelevant terms? Just to be the cause of why the majority of pilots still think that radio altimeters work like radars?

If you wish to inaccurately “paraphrase” my comments in the future and get called on it, try to avoid the dramatics and the accusations of some imaginary will to “spar”. Suck it up.


25 777236ER : The signal bounces off the ground and is received by a receiver antenna that detects the signal and determines the difference between the current tran
26 Iakobos : Nothing to do with radar. IIRW it goes like this: the signal (which is continuously transmitted, and freq. modulated) changes continuously in (carrier
27 SlamClick : Look guys, my handicap is years of experience training aircraft mechanics, pilots and dispatchers. I have to be able to tell them things in a way they
28 Iakobos : Lucky me, I know two guys who are more Catholic than the Pope... "We know how long it takes for a radio signal to travel a distance and bounce back. Y
29 SlamClick : Maybe I truly do not understand how it works. Iakobos are you saying that it is not necessary for the signal to bounce back in order to measure the di
30 Post contains images Airplay : Ah.... SlamClick, I didn't realize we were talking about how to dumb things down for pilots. Yah...tell them whatever you want. It really doesn't matt
31 SlamClick : Airplay most pilots I know feel they need to know only what they need to know. What they need to know is dictated by the FAA or other nation's equival
32 Post contains links Airplay : Now as to your statement: "Pilots need to know that the radio altimeter reads the altitude above ground. Period. " This statement is untrue and irresp
33 SlamClick : Airplay that was not an answer. It was a change of subject. I say that a radio altimeter functions because we know how long it takes the radio signal
34 777236ER : I say that a radio altimeter functions because we know how long it takes the radio signal to travel to the surface and bounce back. Is that right? Sla
35 SlamClick : Well, that's what I think. I just wish the "engineer" who "designs aircraft electrical systems" who has the really ironic mis-quote from A Few Good Me
36 777236ER : You're perfectly right, and time is DIRECTLY measured. That being said, I don't think Airplay will apologise.
37 Airplay : SlamClick is right. The time between the recieved frequency and current frequency is known, and from THAT the height is found. Oh good....another armc
38 SlamClick : Okay, thenAirplay how about a couple more definitions? Obfuscate verb {T} to make something less clear and harder to understand, especially intentiona
39 Airplay : Slamclick, "WE" all know how fast radio waves move. Does the radio altimeter know? No. Does it measure it? No. Your question is out of context. It's l
40 FredT : All right. I've been reluctant to step into this, but here goes nothing. I wouldn't say a VOR receiver measures time. In that case, the phase shift is
41 Post contains links 777236ER : In a VOR system two modulated signals are compared. An FM modulated 30 Hz reference and an AM modulated 30 Hz variable. The phase difference between t
42 Airplay : What has this got to do with anything? There is NO time difference between the two signals, only a phase difference. Thanks for that. A radio altimete
43 777236ER : Thanks for that. A radio altimeter measures the phase difference between the transmitted signal and received signal too. The measurement must be made
44 Post contains images FredT : I’m a little disappointed FredT. Are you suggesting that every device that uses an oscillator employs a practical “timing” process? Please put i
45 Airplay : A radalt does not rely on phase differences. In fact, it is completely oblivious to any phase difference. What it does measure is a frequency differen
46 777236ER : For crying out loud. There IS a time difference and it's from the TIME difference that the height is found. The TIME is found by comparing the frequen
47 Airplay : TIME is found by comparing the frequencies. Or is it the distance that is found by comparing the frequencies..... What are we measuring here? Time or
48 SlamClick : Of course we are measuring distance. Most adults would be embarassed to pretend that they did not understand that after having debated it for several
49 Airplay : You have single handedly taken a simple explaination and turned it in to several days of childish debate. As I said before, I very deliberately avoide
50 SlamClick : You have steadfastly denied ANY role of time in this function. That makes your integrity or your intelligence suspect. I will not expect you to sove t
51 777236ER : You have single handedly taken a simple explaination and turned it in to several days of childish debate. As I said before, I very deliberately avoide
52 Post contains images Jetlagged : I think both slamclick and airplay have valid points. The principle of the radio altimeter is based on the speed of light (and hence radio waves) bein
53 SlamClick : Thanks for the olive branch, Jetlagged, I think we should take it. As my final input here, I say this: How can we both be right when Airplay had adama
54 Post contains images Airplay : You may expect to find these words: "The time used in traveling from the aircraft to the ground and back . . ." Just make sure you are not reading abo
55 Vzlet : Well, I can say that I now know more about radio altimetry than when this thread began...
56 Jetlagged : We all know a lot more about pedantry too.
57 Airplay : Perhaps some of us have just learned to use a thesaurus in an attempt to appear intelligent....
58 777236ER : Airplay, one simple question you haven't answered. How from a frequency difference can a distance be measured?
59 Jetlagged : distance = speed * time In this case the time taken is for a round trip, so we are interested in half that time: radio altitude = 0.5 * speed * time T
60 FredT : Nor is time mentioned in this sentence: "During my flight from A to B, the big hand on my watch moved from pointing straight up to pointing straight d
61 777236ER : time = k * (frequency difference) Given time is a base quantity, I don't think that step is suitable for this thread. If you measure frequency, you me
62 Airplay : Airplay, one simple question you haven't answered. How from a frequency difference can a distance be measured? Visualize a frequency comparator circui
63 777236ER : It is the designer's knowledge in the rate of frequency change and the speed of radio frequency waves that allow him/her to correlate the output signa
64 SlamClick : Frequency (cycles per SECOND) is a function of time. RATE of change is a function of time. It is this one that defines the principle on which a radio
65 Airplay : Are you familiar with the term "grasping at straws" Slamclick? The frequency in this case has no direct correlation with the time it takes for the sig
66 Post contains links Airplay : I just realized something....Slamclick (aka 411A) has argued technical issues to the death before. We have crossed paths on DC generation and on AC ge
67 Goboeing : Airplay. Why in the world are you posting a link to a thread in this forum that 411A and skipper and you and others were discussing? It has absolutely
68 SlamClick : Airplay I mentioned that history way back in reply #23 and you denied it in reply #24. Weak attempt there, and way too late. "just realized" my ass! B
69 SlamClick : Moderators, perhaps it is time to lock this thread. But please, first, allow Airplay the chance to retort. Would not want to miss something.
70 SATL382G : If you guys would exhibit some self control a Mod lock would not be necessary. Sheesh...
71 Airplay : Why didn't you answer my question about the 60 Hz in your outlet Slamclick? Frequency is a function of time. But purely in a sense of the period of th
72 777236ER : Are you familiar with the term "grasping at straws" Slamclick? The frequency in this case has no direct correlation with the time it takes for the sig
73 SlamClick : Thank you Airplay for locating those two threads. To the two or three people left in the western hemisphere who still care, they shed some light on th
74 Airplay : Wrong, frequency is ALWAYS the inverse of a time. If you measure a frequency, you have a measure a time - just like if you measure an acceleration, yo
75 777236ER : So...tell me then. When the radio altimeter "measures" the frequency it gets from the mixer, how does it relate to time and how does that correlate to
76 Post contains images Airplay : All I can do is grin and nod. Like I do whenever I hear a pilot tell me how things work...
77 777236ER : All I can do is grin and nod. Like I do whenever I hear a pilot tell me how things work... Is frequency a function of time?
78 Staffan : Don't you guys understand eachother or don't you want to? Staffan
79 FredT : And engineers, apparently. Must be a joy working with you.
80 Post contains links and images Airplay : I thought of an interesting analogy to this problem. It’s much less clunky than the “measuring tape” analogy I offered earlier. I'm fairly sure
81 Post contains images FredT : OK, as this has gone beyond the ridiculous, let’s make entertainment out of it! Now, let us all sing together! Melody: Europe – Superstitious Keep
82 Post contains images Airplay : FredT, Don't quit your day job.... There are plenty of examples of equipment that use a timer to resolve distance. A DME is a great example. So what i
83 Jetlagged : Wow, I didn't think this thread would still be generating such heat since I lasted looked. Firstly to defend myself: 777236ER, there's nothing wrong w
84 SlamClick : Oh yeah Jetlagged you really got me there! I retreated with my tail between my legs. P.S. "k" in your little formula (reply #59) is the rate of change
85 777236ER : I stand by that post. It clearly shows how you can measure radio altitude without timing the radio signal as long as certain things are known and cons
86 Airplay : Check your pesonal messages Slamclick. This mudslinging and flamebaiting doesn't belong here. [Edited 2005-02-06 20:02:31]
87 Post contains links FredT : To reiterate* the view of the no timing camp: “I do not measure the time between event A and event B. I only compare the position of the big hand on
88 SlamClick : Airplay no one likes being called dishonest. Most people avoid it by being honest. Now I have already copied into Notepad half a dozen examples, (comp
89 Airplay : Slamclick...I have decided to maintain the high road. Do whatever you want. I don't think petty insults belong here and I won't participate in your ga
90 Post contains images BCBHokie : I'm coming into this thread as an indepenent electrical engineer to contribute my two cents to the "timing" debate without addressing a lot of the ped
91 Airplay : Yes we are measuring a frequency. Frequency is a function of time. We can relate frequency and just about everything in the universe to time at some l
92 Post contains images FredT : Yes we are measuring a frequency. No, we are measuring how much a frequency has changed between the time when we transmitted the beam and the time at
93 Post contains images FredT : I really think I am having more fun with this than I should have. Oh well, I've always liked the Monthy Python kind of humour where the fun is in the
94 SlamClick : Damn, FredT that was eloquent! If I ever go back to teaching ground school that is going to be my presentation on the radio altimeter. I'll credit you
95 Post contains images Airplay : Talk about muddying the waters...... I think I've said as much as I need to say without bringing "imps" into it.
96 SlamClick : Yeah, let's go back to the tape measure and skyhook in reply #24
97 FredT : Thanks, SlamClick. That's an RR entry I appreciate. I think it has all been said now, most of it about a dozen times. At this point, I'm prepared to m
98 SlamClick : I'm onboard for that. All we need is one more gentleman.
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