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Overflying Area 51?  
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19317 times:

I was looking at the Las vegas sectional, and saw Groom Lake. In case you don't know, that's where "area 51" is. The airspace all over that area is restricted, Groom Lake is in restricted area R-4808 N.

Now, IIRC, restricted areas can be flown through. You just have to ask for clearance. So you guys think you could fly over "Area 51" with clearance, that is, if you get it? Who would you ask for clearance?

Just don't start a flame war please. AFAIK, "Area 51" does exist, but I don't believe in all that alien UFO b*llsh*t experiments they talk about that "happen" in there. It's just another AFB to me. But that's just my opinion.

 Smile

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBiggles From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 459 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19311 times:

I suggest you conduct an internet search on what happens to pilots that attempt to , or stray into , the Groom Lake area.

The short answer is No.  Smile


User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19293 times:

Yes, you can ask for clearance through "Area 51". Yes, if it was granted you could fly through it. No, you would not get the clearance.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19293 times:

The usual rules probably apply to R4808N as any other restricted area. Problem you would have is in contacting the controlling agency for clearance through. Nobody ever seems to be able to contact the controlling agency out there. You may have already noted that it extends Ground-Unlimited.

I have many an hour on the airways and jet routes of the State of Nevada and have never seen or heard anyone ever get clearance through there.

My experience: I was F/O on a flight and the captain was a close friend of mine, one hard-charging bulldog SOB who was shot down twice in Vietnam because he don't back down from nothing! So, we are at FL330 southeastbound near OAL, and cleared down J-92 after that and there is a HUGE thunderstorm straddling J-92, but extending farther west of it than east.

The Captain tells ATC that we are deviating east of the airway for weather. They said they needed us to deviate west of the cell.
"Negative" he said.
"Turn right NOW, heading one eight zero."
"Negative"
After a few moments a different voice came on Oakland Center, presumably the controllers's supervisor.
"Turn right. We need you west of the airway centerline immediately."
"Negative"

We had a big purple cell forty miles across over to our right and we presumably had F-117s that did not show up on radar to our left. The captain made his choice - one in a zillion midair with a plane that might not even exist (early 1980s) or fly into a level 5 or 6 cell at FL330. We agreed on this one completely, though I didn't mind that he was pilot in command.

We never heard anything about it. Since we collided with nothing, nothing seemed to have happened.

* * *


Now it is just barely possible that once, many years ago a Beech 18 flew through that area with an inoperative transponder. But then I might be making that up.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19247 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Now it is just barely possible that once, many years ago a Beech 18 flew through that area with an inoperative transponder. But then I might be making that up.


That's it, Slamclick. That does it. The straw that broke the camel's back.

Welcome to my respected users list.


 Big thumbs up



2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19233 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

You can legally fly right around the edges of R4808N, which gives one a slant view in. Somewhere out on the Internet there is an account of some guys who did this in a C172. Part way along, the control said to them "doing a little sightseeing?".

User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19227 times:

There is an audio file out there somewhere on the internet that is supposedly of a private pilot flying towards Area 51, and then the transmission is cut off. I'm not sure if it is real or not, though.

Doesn't involve flying, but there was that show on the Discovery Channel where the people tried to get as close to the base as possible on foot. At one point, they were sitting on a hill nearby, and a Mig plus some other US fighters blasted off from behind the hill, and I think a B-1 might have been there too. Pretty cool footage.  Big thumbs up

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19203 times:

AeroWeanie, you mean this page http://www.serve.com/mahood/nellis/flight.htm ? Pretty good story.


-Dan



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19210 times:

You can legally fly right around the edges of R4808N

You better be darn sure your navigation equipment is accurate! Otherwise, you may learn the hard way what it is like to bust restricted airspace (if the ground perimeter security is any indication).  Wow!


User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19183 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Thanks Dan2002 - thats it

User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 18993 times:

What ShyFlyer said is absolutely correct. He was just being gentle about it. The signs on the ground say:

USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED


Oh, they mean by them, not by you.

This would not be like busting any other Restricted airspace. This would be a special case.




Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18903 times:

I think taking a look at http://www.dreamlandresort.com gives you answers to a lot of things about Groom Lake, and I believe there's an account and photos of an aircraft that did skirt the edges of the restricted zones...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18849 times:

SlamClick, just out of curiousity was that a night flight? Reason I ask is that back in the early 80's the F-117's were still doing almost all of their flying at night.

Yours is an interesting experience either way. If it wasn't stealths I'm sure it was something out of the ordinary.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8193 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18849 times:

If one busts Class B you might get written up in an FAA report.
If one busts Area-51 you might get written up in an obituary.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18808 times:

HaveBlue well, just after sunset IIRC. I suppose it was dark on the ground, but up where we we there was some light. There was also a high stratus layer so the cell was embedded. We might have gone closer to it if we could have seen it.

The whole area seems to repel airplanes. I don't think I've ever been allowed east of J92 or south of J110 or northwest of J9 (or Janine, as I like to call it)

I have been into certain locations inside that whole block, many years ago (wearing nomex if that helps) but can't say I was ever made to feel welcome.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18754 times:

As if e.g. Russian spy satellites would mind the no fly zone...  Nuts

Jan


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18695 times:

Not a problem o ye of little imagination.
You see into the hangars horizontally, not vertically. Smile

These folks are well aware of the satellite schedules.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineKDTWFlyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 828 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 18653 times:

Very cool story I think of flying around Area-51 area...

http://www.serve.com/mahood/nellis/flight.htm

I especially like this part...

I noted, with more than passing interest, the antics of our plane's transponder. The transponder flashes a light on the instrument panel whenever it's interrogated by a ground based radar. Normally, it flashes briefly every few seconds or so. In this area it was illuminated almost constantly! We were certainly being scanned a lot and I wondered if the light would burn out.




NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 18647 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR








2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 18543 times:

Cool SlamClick. Perhaps it was F-117's then. I prefer to think they were anyways  Smile


Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 18398 times:

2H4, damn thats one monster runway, one couldnt imagine what would need all that runway. Hell you could probally land a 747 on the thing and stop without using spoilers, breaks, or reverse thrust and still have alot of runway to spare.


-Dan



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18352 times:

A guy I worked with at one airline had that satellite view of Groom Lake as a poster in his office. It had an arrow on it, pointing to a building and it said:

You are NOT HERE!



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineEfohdee From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 18326 times:



"I noted, with more than passing interest, the antics of our plane's transponder. The transponder flashes a light on the instrument panel whenever it's interrogated by a ground based radar. Normally, it flashes briefly every few seconds or so. In this area it was illuminated almost constantly! We were certainly being scanned a lot and I wondered if the light would burn out. "
They were probably "painted" by a targeting and tracking radar. In the crosshairs....




User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 18298 times:

Doesn't one member of this forum have a habbit of flying out over some long desert roads in his USAF aircraft and paint speeding cars in the hope they have a radar on board and watch them hit the breaks?  Smile

I had no idea the facility was called "Groom Lake" then again until yesterday I can safley say I never bothered to do any research into A51 although I have been deeply intrested in it.

Is it on FS9 BTW, could be worth a look  Big grin

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineRyan h From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 1532 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18260 times:

They were probably "painted" by a targeting and tracking radar. In the crosshairs....
With a MIM 104 Patriot surface to air missile locked on and ready to fire.



South Australian Spotter
25 Espion007 : Is it on FS9 BTW, could be worth a look nope,but you can download it as scenery for fs2002 from flightsim.com
26 ShyFlyer : @FlyingColours I had no idea the facility was called "Groom Lake" That "facility" goes by many names: Area 51, Dreamland, Watertown, the Ranch. Accord
27 SlamClick : Accompanied by the unmistakable sound of a pump shotgun!
28 Dan2002 : Wasnt there a TW MD-83 that had to declare an emergency and had to land at Groom? It was told to close all the window shades, and was towed to a hanga
29 MD11Engineer : While I think it would be impossible to enter the area with a vehicle, I wonder if one or two persons e.g. with a military background in special ops c
30 KAUST : I could be wrong, but is the picture posted by 2H4 on this thread not Edwards AFB? I know it has the long runway, as well as non-paved desert runways.
31 Post contains links SlamClick : MD11Engineer if I believe anything about that place, I believe this: You will NOT go to jail. Neither will the security guards. In the words of Dirty
32 Newark777 : Just as a side note, I wonder how many of these are really coming from Tonopah: Tonopah, NV Reserved 201 05:35 AM Arrived Tonopah, NV Reserved 212 06:
33 MD11Engineer : So you Americans have a place within the CONUS, where normal American laws don´t apply? Where the base commander can act like a dictator and the air
34 Post contains images Newark777 : If I told you I'd have to kill you. Harry
35 SlamClick : Well, MD11Engineer with all due respect, that comment could easily be construed as a deliberate insult to the US with no other purpose. Of course we h
36 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : Not to be the weasel here, but if Area 51 "does not exist", why do they have a problem with people flying over that specific area??? Yeah, Thats what
37 Jc2354 : "So you Americans have a place within the CONUS, where normal American laws don´t apply? Where the base commander can act like a dictator and the air
38 MD11Engineer : Slamclick, My question weasn´t meant as an insult. However I wonder how the activities going on there are being controlled. Has Congress a say about
39 SlamClick : Well, I can assure you that no one is going to give an Air Force brigadier general a whole base and a giant budget and say: "enjoy!" You may be sure t
40 Captoveur : "Just as a side note, I wonder how many of these are really coming from Tonopah:" Probably all of them. EG&G, the company that operates Groom Lake, or
41 Post contains images SSTjumbo : Not to be the weasel here, but if Area 51 "does not exist", why do they have a problem with people flying over that specific area??? Yeah, Thats what
42 ShyFlyer : The official government response to Area 51 is that "it doesn't exist". That was true. A couple of years ago, the Air Force (or the Pentagon) admitted
43 Post contains images Newark777 : Probably all of them. EG&G, the company that operates Groom Lake, or at least gets credit for operating it. Flies a bunch of 737-200s from LAS to Area
44 2H4 : Question for you all... A early as 1977, Lockheed was flying stealth technology demonstrators that were identical in appearance to the F-117. In 1977.
45 Post contains links Smcmac32msn : Here's an interesting area on TerraServer that I happened to find after taking a look at Edwards AFB (prior link earlier in discussion). I typed in "R
46 Captoveur : so maybe some of those come from Area 51 and they just label it Tonopah. Just my theory. I think one of Area 51's many names is "Tonopah Test Range"
47 SlamClick : That is correct. "Area 51" was a marking on one old map that may have been carried forward to a newer version without any modern meaning. I don't thin
48 Post contains links and images AeroWeanie : > I think one of Area 51's many names is "Tonopah Test Range" TTR is to the north of Area 51 and is a different facility. > A early as 1977, Lockheed
49 Jc2354 : Does anyone have a link to the TWA diversion? I've searched and am unable to locate any information. Thanks.
50 Post contains images KAUST : SlamClick, thank for the over-ride, I stand corrected. I once flew over (well okay near) Edwards AFB, on an AA 'nerd-bird' from to Austin. I don't rem
51 FLY2HMO : OK I got a 2004 LAS sectional. Restricted area R-4808N is described as: location: Las Vegas, NV (duh) altitude: unlimited Time of use: continuous Cont
52 Post contains images Flyf15 : Fly2HMO...it is a restricted area 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, all altitudes. Not somewhere that you want to fly into, even if you're playing dumb.
53 HaveBlue : "Not true - the Have Blue prototypes were similar, but identical to the F-117." Righto. Have Blues vertical fins canted inwards, but since the exhaust
54 GothamSpotter : Has the government ever actually shot down an aircraft flying over Area 51, or any restricted base area? I've heard stories about people within the gr
55 SlamClick : I have not heard of that happening. I would guess that owning an airplane or having a pilot license is a deterrent in itself. The Government would pro
56 Post contains images Corey07850 : RE: aircraft getting shot down... It's not necisarilly getting shot down, but I'm reminded of the guy who was flying from the Bahamas and decided not
57 DL021 : Slam....I spoke with a mechanic from the F-117 squadron back in '89 after they went public with the airplane. He told me that they had a serious vetti
58 MD11Engineer : A funny story from a colleague who used to be a mechanic with the Luftwaffe in Büchel air base back in the 70s: Back then the Luftwaffe operated F-10
59 HaveBlue : Corey, yeah I read that story a long time ago. Apparently the Seneca/Seminole was in clouds, and the F-4 with the radar inop as you stated actually fl
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