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Brakes On An Airliner.  
User currently offlineGg190 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

something I've always wondered about, when not using the autobrake how does a pilot apply the aircraft's brake?

Are they connected to the rudder pedals or is there a button on the stick/yoke?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAv8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Are they connected to the rudder pedals...

Yes!!!!!


User currently offlineAirplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2739 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

You can manual brake by pusing the top of the rudder pedals.

Regards,

Simon



Simon - London-Aviation.com
User currently offlineGg190 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

thanks for the replies guys.

Question answered!!


User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

re. is there a button on the stick/yoke?

Too much flight sim mate Big grin


User currently offlineFutureUApilot From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

The brakes for an airliner are on the top of the rudder pedals, and will bend about 30-40 degrees from the rudder pedal angle. As far as I know you have to use autobrake while landing...

-Sam



The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3740 times:

As far as I know you have to use autobrake while landing...

Not true...it is an option for the crew to use...and not all aircraft have 'auto-brakes'....in fact it is a relatively new addition to the cockpit.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5947 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

You don't HAVE to use autobrakes. If so... well, anyway, such an airplane would not be certified as airworthy.
What if the autobrake computer failed? It has happened...

Anyhow, they're just like a Cessna Skychicken- push real hard on the top of the pedal, and hope for the best.
 Smile


User currently offlineStoney From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 199 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

Hi guys

Since it´s all about brakes here. Is it possible for an airliner to land and decelerate without using the brakes in normal ops. I guess it´s not done if there´s not an emergency for reasons like safety (would it be more dangerous??), noise, engine tear, or whatever. Another thing is bad weather. It the runway is something like snowcovered, is "braking procedure" any different than under normal circumstances?

Thanx for your answers

Stoney (at a skiing-resort in Austria*yeah*  Big thumbs up )



BAZL - Bundesamt gegen Zivilluftfahrt - royally screwing around with swiss aviation
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3584 times:

Depressing the Rudder pedals operate the Rudder.Toe depression of tip of rudder pedals operate Brakes.
Autobrake is optional.
No button on stick/yoke to operate brakes.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3555 times:

Do airline pilots use differential breaking at landing to keep direction at high speed or is that not ok.

User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1963 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3562 times:

Do airline pilots use differential breaking at landing to keep direction at high speed or is that not ok.

Probably not a good idea at high speed due to the potential for swerving, but for low speeds it´s all right, although the tiller is much more effective. At my company we´ve been told not to hit the brakes until the nose wheel touches down, but the thrust reverser buckets can come out as soon as the mains touch. At these speeds, in excess of 120 knots, the rudder has enough airflow to allow adequate directional control under normal circumstances until the captain takes over with the tiller around 40 knots.

is "braking procedure" any different than under normal circumstances?

Not really, at least on airplanes equipped with automatic anti-skid. On the ERJ for instance we have wheel speed sensors on all main gear wheels which sense if one wheel starts to slow down or ´skid´. The brake system then compensates for this by releasing brake pressure on that wheel, much like the Anti-lock brake system found in most cars.


[Edited 2005-01-31 08:33:30]

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

but the thrust reverser buckets can come out as soon as the mains touch.
There were mods carried out on the B737s to include the NLG Squat sw signal too.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

"re. is there a button on the stick/yoke?

Too much flight sim mate " actually........

i met a man in Florida who was having his a/c fitted with a brake on the yoke, in the form of a button, because he had some condition with his leg. He had several limitations on his medical certificate, and he was having his a/c fitted with this system to be able to fly.

speaking of medicals....you can get a class 1 in florida if u show up, cough and tell a few jokes and drop 60 bucks lol



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3456 times:

You could always use the intercom button on the yoke and tell the F/O to brake....

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17178 posts, RR: 66
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

re. is there a button on the stick/yoke?

Too much flight sim mate


Well if you buy the CH Pro Pedals for Flight Sim they allow both rudder function (connected movement of the entire pedals) AND differential toe braking (individual pedal pivoting). This latter is also useable in racing games. Sure makes FS more realistic.

[Edited 2005-01-31 19:33:33]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineDeskPilot From Australia, joined Apr 2004, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

Starionblue, I've got those pedals too and never resort to the button 1 for braking. It's toe brakes for me when I sim.


By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
User currently offlineStoney From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 199 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

Hi guys

Well, seems like you´re all so fascinated by playing with your stick with buttons, that you just oversaw my questions. (Playing with your stick is fun, I know, but it´s even better if you have a girlfriend and besides, then you don´t have to clean it off somewhere  Big thumbs up )

  • Is it possible for an airliner to land and decelerate without using the brakes in normal ops?


  • I guess it´s not done if there´s not an emergency for reasons like safety (would it be more dangerous??), noise, engine tear, or whatever.

    And about braking in bad weather. KAUSpilot said if there´s some Anti-skid system, there´s no difference to normal weather ops. Well, for one thing, how about if the plane doesn´t have any Anti-skid-system? (Are there still Airliners that do not have such systems?) And I´ve heard of some runway overruns or stuff like that in bad weather such as snow, does that have anything to do with not being able to use the brakes to the full extent?

    And on a side note: I´ve always wanted to have such pedals for flight-sim, but they´re so damn expensive (Hey, I´m a student, so I´m always broke  Smokin cool .) Would it be worth all that money?

    Thnx for your answers

    Stoney

    [Edited 2005-02-01 17:46:31]


    BAZL - Bundesamt gegen Zivilluftfahrt - royally screwing around with swiss aviation
    User currently offlineJeb94 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 608 posts, RR: 4
    Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

    Most of the time the runway overruns are caused by pilot error or mechanical situations. The pilots misjudged the conditions, didn't use enough thrust reverser soon enough, landed a little long, forgot to turn on the anti-skid system, that sort of thing. Sometimes its an aborted takeoff but done too late to stop the aircraft in the current conditions before overrunning. Sometimes the system isn't working or there are non-functional thrust reversers. Aircraft can be dispatched like this as long as they aren't headed somewhere with slippery runways. Also, sometimes off runway excursions are caused from the aircraft being unable to turn or from sliding off. One incident I remember: MKE was covered in ice from an ice storm. Mechanics were to taxi an MD-80 from the hangar to the gate. Due to flights heading in his direction ground control had the MD-80 taxi onto a run up pad. Once on the run up pad and pretty much stopped, the aircraft started sliding towards the edge of the pad away from the taxiway. Sure enough, off the edge he went. There wasn't a lot the mechanic could do at the time except go for the ride. Occassionally, its the same thing for the pilots. All they can do is make sure its a low speed runway or taxiway off incident.

    User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1963 posts, RR: 32
    Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3225 times:

    Is it possible for an airliner to land and decelerate without using the brakes in normal ops?

    We landed the EMB-145 in the sim with no Brakes, Spoilers, Thrust Reversers, or nosewheel steering, not to mention no hydraulic assist for the ailerons and rudder (Both Hydraulic System Failure). We managed to pull it off but we needed every bit of a 9000 ft runway. In this situation, the only braking we have in the ERJ is from the parking brake. The #1 hydralic accumulator retains enough hydrualic pressure for 6 applications of the parking brake. The trick here is to apply the parking brake without blowing the tires, because now you don't have anti-skid protection, nor do you have much pressure control (the parking brake handle is very sensitive, almost like an on/off switch).

    Under normal circumstances the plane can probably be stopped without using brakes and only using thrust reversers. However this is noiser and a little rougher for the passengers. The rollout will obviously be a bit longer. On a normal landing we usually deploy the Reverser buckets after the mains touch, begin normal braking after the nosewheel touch, and don't spool up the engines for reverse much unless we need to make a turnoff.

    What I say probably just holds true for the EMB barbie training jet, I'd guess anything much heavier would have problems stopping without some help from the brakes.

    [Edited 2005-02-01 20:38:01]

    User currently offlineStoney From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 199 posts, RR: 3
    Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3196 times:

    Thanks for your insightful (is that a word? Wink/being sarcastic) answers. It's always nice to get an answer without any flaming in here.

    Stoney



    BAZL - Bundesamt gegen Zivilluftfahrt - royally screwing around with swiss aviation
    User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
    Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2985 times:

    I'll take a crack at the pedal question since it was asked, even though it might not be the right place.

    Having had the yoke for a couple years, I finally upgraded and added the pedals. I like the added control, especially when taxiing a taildragger or other times when differential braking is required. However, I don't find the level of realism to be exceptional. The pedal travel required for both steering and braking inputs is way off, and doesn't change with airspeed. I think some fine-tuning of sensitivity settings may help. I basically just bought them to practice cross-wind landings anyway. I'm currently using FS2K4. Hope this is helpful.



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