Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Acft Fire Fighting Techniques & Equip.  
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

I noticed during the TEB Challenger incident that the Fire & Rescue folks used a stinger to extinguish the interior fuselage fire. See pix below for a shot of the equipment & resulting holes in fuselage.

I'm curious -- how do they determine where to insert the stinger? Obviously they don't want to injure anyone and there are probably areas of the fuselage (hydraulic & fuel lines, etc) better left alone. Additionally I should think there are areas of a fuselage (attic area of 747 for example) that are less than ideal for fire suppression or rescue purposes.

Note that there are stinger holes in the fuselage side and crown areas




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Art Brett



10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Interesting Method.
Was it used after confirming the Aircraft was Empty.
Why not through the Windows then.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2942 times:

You wouldb't use a window on an aircraft for the same reason we tried not to use one in a room fire in a house. When you put a large amount of water into a closed area, you need someplace for all that expanding steam to escape. Those broken out windows will do the job.

User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2941 times:

I think the ultimate though is to get the interior fire out before the windows break. I suspect they will avoid the windows with the stinger, at least until they know all pax are out. Having seen folks sleeping with their head against the window it's not hard to imagine someone unconcious leaning against one.

In this case, TEB wreck, I'm thinking pax/crew probably got out before the fire trucks arrived.

Would some type of thermal imager be effective thru aluminum to see pax/fire inside a wreck?


User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2935 times:

If the windows don't fail on their own, the fire department would break them, prior to or concurrently with suppression operations. The reason for this is to lower the pressure and temperature in the fuselage and increase visibility. This in turn increases survivability in the fuselage.

A thermal imager would be effective through the skin. This is another reason to vent as soon as possible. With the resulting decrease in temperature throughout the fuselage, you could pinpoint the fire and/or any victims.


User currently offlineCopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1136 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

A thermal imager would be effective through the skin. This is another reason to vent as soon as possible. With the resulting decrease in temperature throughout the fuselage, you could pinpoint the fire and/or any victims.

Uh, NO, thermal imaging would NOT be successful through the skin of the aircraft. Not for locating people anyway, maybe for locating the hottest exterior part of the aircraft though--which would indicate where the fire was hottest inside.

Thermal imaging (TI) cannot see through things, it only measures heat emitted from a surface.

[Edited 2005-02-17 08:40:02]

User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2806 times:

Copter, I stand corrected. Its been a while since I've been in th firefighting business and just as long since I last used a thermal imager.

The statement should have read that the venting of the fuselage would allow the more efficient use of the thermal imaging system within the airframe.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

I've seen the demo video of this item and IIRC it does not penetrate very far into the space beyond. As soon as they break through into the interior they stop drilling and start shooting fire extinguishing agent.

If I was unconscious inside a burning airplane I'd be happy to have them put the fire out. I think I'd rather have minor injuries from an auger than be burned. Remember you could not bore through a human body unless it was being held in place. The bit would just push you aside with probably minor injuries.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

Slam -- Agreed. It's especially useful for AC DC-9 & BA 737 type incidents.
I'm just curious how it works. It's a shame when the jet gets down intact with everyone alive and then folks suffocate or otherwise can't get out due to fire.

Does it actually "drill" through the skin or "puncture"?

regards

[Edited 2005-02-17 17:44:48]

User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2777 times:

Here's a link to the Snozzle web sight.

http://www.crashrescue.com/snozzle/Snozzle_News.asp

My brother works on this equipment at Syncrude Canada as an EMT/FF. I saw their truck in December. The nozzle is over 3 feet long and penetrates through the telescoping of the Arm.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

The device actually punches through the skin. There is a handheld version that is extremely effective for under hood car fires and trailer fires. Just punch through the skin and open the nozzle.

I don't remember the flow rates, but they weren't very high. I wouldn't expect much more than 300gpm from the apparatus mounted unit. The fire is extinguished by "steaming it out". The introduction of fine water droplets into a high heat environment causes steam. The rapidly expanding steam suffocates the fire, though it causes scald burns on exposed, unprotected people. That is why ventilation is normally used in conjunction with fire attack.

I would be suprised if the used anything but water with this nozzle. Foam application requires a specific mix ration and flow rate. But, I could be mistaken about the foam. If foam is used, then the steam expansion is not so much an issue, but extinguishing time increase.

I wish I could find my Essentials of Fire Fighting book. It had some good numbers about all this stuff.

[Edited 2005-02-17 20:19:53]

Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic New Acft Fire Fighting Techniques & Equip.
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Airplane Tire Fire Fighting.... posted Sun Nov 20 2005 03:01:12 by Loggat
New A380 Pics! - With Tail & Nose posted Thu Jul 15 2004 02:40:44 by Propulsion
New Md80 Interiors At AA & SAS posted Sat Apr 10 2004 08:55:18 by Lufthansa
Bulk Cargo Compt Fire Detection & Supression Sys. posted Tue Jul 31 2001 10:41:23 by HAWK21M
MBF & IE7 posted Fri Nov 24 2006 16:17:53 by HAWK21M
A&P Jobs With USAir In PHL posted Tue Nov 14 2006 08:58:20 by MXSUP
New Hire Advice posted Tue Nov 14 2006 02:31:17 by Visakow
Aicraft Procedure & The Airlines posted Sat Nov 4 2006 04:13:07 by HighFlyer9790
Farnsworth D-15 & Lantern Colour Test posted Tue Oct 31 2006 21:31:45 by YVRtoYYZ
MCD & Ground Runs posted Sat Oct 28 2006 06:38:11 by HAWK21M

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format