Argonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 424 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3897 times:
For a number of reasons, airlines obviously must keep detailed archives about every individual aircraft they operate.
~How detailed are such records? Presumably all maintenance info is kept, but how about other things, such as flight numbers, e/r info, pax loads, delays, incidents, squawks, etc?
~How long is the information kept? I imagine these days it could be kept forever, but what about records from pre-computer times?
~Does the level of detail vary by airline, or is it a matter of official regulation?
~Is it possible to trace which particular aircraft/tail number operated a particular service on a particular date? How?
For a writing project I'm about to start I will probably find myself needing to find records of first/last services to particular destinations; but I'm intrigued by the subject generally. All help gratefully received!
Aa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3827 times:
Quoting Argonaut (reply 0): ~How long is the information kept? I imagine these days it could be kept forever, but what about records from pre-computer times?
Remember, our pre-computer times and the airlines' pre-computer times are very different. For many industries, computers were just coming into play in the mid-1980s. However, reservation systems, such as "Deltamatic" and SABRE have been around since the early 1960s, AFAIK.
Quoting Argonaut (reply 0): ~Is it possible to trace which particular aircraft/tail number operated a particular service on a particular date? How?
Yes. Go to www.bts.gov and look for detailed statistics.
Skidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3790 times:
You should be able to find a detailed service history of any aircraft. However, I think it is down to individual airlines how detailed this is. I do know that all component changes, major and minor servicings, repairs and incidents have to be recorded. Also flight times, aircraft hours, landings and sectors are recorded.
I would suggest a call to an airline Technical Records department would give you a good idea of what you can and cant find out.
Please feel free to contact me and I'll see what I can source here at BACX Engineering.
Argonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3760 times:
Thanks to you both, AAndrew and Andy (as a Scotsman, I know my patron saint--St. Andrew--really is looking after me!)... Great information, and a huge help, especially the heads-up about the BTS site.
Point taken about computerization. Airlines were surely way ahead in this regard. I wonder what I might find out about my specific subjects, the Britannia and VC10? Is there an equivalent UK site to BTS? That far back? But Tech Records is a good pointer, thanks...
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31851 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3625 times:
From Mx point of View.
All Mx Entries in Aircraft/Engine/Component log book has entries from the time the Aircraft has been in service.
Records accompanying components are preserved for 6 months,unless required to be preserved in writing by Airworthiness Authorities.
This is pertaining to DGCA,India.
Rules may vary Country wise.
Santhosh From India, joined Sep 2001, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3589 times:
MEL- If the MX replaces a component in the aircraft with a new one or if a repair is made in the existing component,where all will the MX enter the details of the replacement and when it was conducted?Also it’s necessary to get it signed by a supervisor. Right?
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31851 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3508 times:
Quoting Santhosh (reply 6): MEL- If the MX replaces a component in the aircraft with a new one or if a repair is made in the existing component,where all will the MX enter the details of the replacement and when it was conducted?Also it’s necessary to get it signed by a supervisor. Right?
Out here.A compatiable part no is identified,Stores is Informed of the part no required with Alt P/N after referring the IPC.
On procuring the part,the Identification tags ie Serviceable tag,Release note data is corelated to the part it identifies.
The part is replaced as per AMM instructions,Tests are carried out to check the servceability of the system in which the part replaced functions.
The Unserviceable part is tagged with an U/S tag & Signed stating reason of removal.
A PDR [Pilot Defect Report] Rectification is made,An Off Job sheet is filled & Signed by both Aircraft Tech & AME.
Later on within 24 hrs [48 hrs elapsed time] a Log book entry is made by the Quality control dept & the Logbook entry would need to be signed.
The snag rectification takes less time than the paperwork out here
Undies737 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3358 times:
paperwork, an evil necessity.
from a maintenance point of view, where do i start?!
heres a run down on how it is in our organisation:
AIRCREW will document from all flight sectors: flight number, pax/cargo manifest, flight hours, landings (inc. touch'n'goes), engine cycles (wet/dry motor overs not included), defects, fuel replenishments, details of flight to go in the fatigue data records (pressurisation cycles etc) captain's release, any ASOR (air safety occurance report) requiring investigation.
MAINTENANCE we have: flight servicings (BF/TA/AF) for 4 trades (airframe/eng/avionics/life preservation equip).
all replenishment - fuel/eng oil/hyd fluid/liquid oxy/nitrogen (tyres,brake/hyd accumulators,landing gear struts).
all maintenance action (of the defect being fixed) inc. electronic transaction of most overhaulable components. these components have a maintenance schedule of their own which our database will initiate jobs when due for overhaul.
most of the common jobs (wash & lubes,wheel/brake change,eng change,'A.B.C'check) will have a "work package". these are like a step by step job card which you sign as you go - so the next shift know exactly how much you've handballed to them!
all these are archived after 10 years, but are never thrown out. the records will go with the plane to its next operator. what they do with the records then, is out of our control.
Whiskeyflyer From Ireland, joined May 2002, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3371 times:
we keep everything thats written down.
as Undies737 says paperwork is a necessary evil
Thankfully we got a fully computerised cross linked computer system in our maintenance department (ie our defects, orders, stores, billing all interlinked)
We computerise all our flight folios, workpacks and repair and puchase orders. We trend monitor all individual s/n parts (you give me a s/n I can tell you that parts complete history while in this company) and look for trends in defects by using the ATA chapters as a staring point (eg a lot of ATA 80 defects means we have engine starter problems)
We need all this info to plan future maintenance on the aircraft. Its a big field of aircraft operations that many do not know about.
To achieve this we (and most others) employ data capturers (and many a pilot cannot write clearly and their adding skills are a bit suspect)
How long to we keep the records?
Computer records never deleted (however most likely another company cannot read your system, so you cannot just give them a CD copy, so you end up printing out compnet lists, defects, SBs etc etc etc)
Paper records by law 5 years, but we still keep them and transfer onto microfiches (we should have CD transfer soon). It adds to the value of the aircraft when it comes to selling it.
And with all that computer power and info we still manage to screw it up from time to time.
To give an idea of how much data is captured try some suppliers websites such as http://www.dsa.com.au