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A380 Test Problems  
User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1058 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9619 times:

dont know if thats new to you:

tests with the plane revealed problems with stability on the rear ("rear end test") of the plane and also with the wheels, without specifying any details. but the problems with the undercarriage may be results of the weight reduction (760kg less) of components of the undercarriage.

the shedule for the first test flight could be in danger.

anyone out there who has more informations on this one?

AND PLEASE STAY WITH THE TOPIC. I AM TIRED OF THIS CHILDISH TRANSATLANTIC BASHING!!!!

http://www.orf.at/050219-83977/index.html (german only)

the report is based upon an article in the upcoming issue of spiegel

the article is only acessible with registration

http://service.spiegel.de/digas/servlet/epaper?Q=SP&JG=2005&AG=8&SE=17


I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13265 posts, RR: 100
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9467 times:
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While I know none of the specifics about the A380 testing, I do know that finding issues during aerospace prototype testing is common and is almost always thought to be 10X worse at first glance than after review and analysis. The types who are given responsibility over the airframe safety are invariably nervous over any perceived deficiency (hey, its their job!). I doubt 1st flight will be delayed. Will a modification have to be made before a MTOW attempt? Probably. Its the nature of aerospace engineering; a fact kept out of the light of day as much as possible.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9414 times:

The comunity of aircraft-enginers ( B or A or whatever manufacturer..) have similar fears and problems with every new prototype due to take the air for the first time.No serious member of that community will or should have lucky feelings because this problem is happening to Airbus or that misery might cause headaches to a Boeing designer. Yes there is competition but at the bottomline they are all air-enthousiasts and do appreciate the first flight of any newly developed aircraft.
As to the potential problems with the A 380 - so what ???
A & B are both companies with hughe experience and skills to overcome issues.
Media should be fair and wise enough not to over-emphasize those things.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13265 posts, RR: 100
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9405 times:
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Beaucaire, I think we used different words to say the same thing!  Smile
Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9350 times:

If they have to employ a weight-increasing strengthening of the undercarriage to solve the issue, that could become a problem for Airbus. It could depend of how much of a "fudge factor" Airbus gave itself in being able to add weight without going below the promised performance specifications. I wonder how much wiggle room the engineers have to address the problem.

User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9298 times:

While I believe there are certain problems I don't believe in this kind of dramatisation. Why? It's the source. If all news from "Der Spiegel" concerning the A380 had been true, the A380 would have never reached this production phase. They overemphasise every problem the A380 could face.

pelican


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9182 times:

My head says a manufacturer can't design, develope, and produce a product this complex, even in the age of CAD, without troubleshooting substantial unforeseen problems along the path to ultimate delivery. My gut says this program becomes ever more "MD-11esque" as time passes, and PIP will be the catch phrase most associated with this aircraft from EIS onward.

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8583 times:

At the point where I see an Airbus spokesman standing in front of the press saying "We have a problem" - that's when I'll believe that it's a problem.

As for "Der Spiegel" - see Reply 5 by Pelican...

Incidentally, Airbus has already said that the claims are untrue:
http://finanzen.sueddeutsche.de/nws....p_id=1000017805&ntp_id=362,383,385

If I have to chose - on any given subject - whether I'd prefer to believe "Der Spiegel" or "Süddeutsche Zeitung", I do have a tendency to not believe what "Der Spiegel" prints...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8491 times:

Quoting Leskova (reply 7):
ncidentally, Airbus has already said that the claims are untrue:
http://finanzen.sueddeutsche.de/nws....p_id=1000017805&ntp_id=362,383,385


I don't know German, so I read the web-translated version. It doesn't sound like an unequivocal denial. It just like the overbudget report which was initially denied by Airbus but later confirmed by Airbus.

If an aircraft design development runs smoothly without any challenges, then one must ask if they have the most advance design possible. If Airbus can meet all the challenges at the end, then this is just a bump on the road. For Airbus fans, don't need to get over defensive. For Boeing fans, don't need to be over elated.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8300 times:

As I reported a month or so ago, my sources tell me "Obese Albert" is overweight.
Airbus needs to shed about 3 to 5 thousand lbs(american). Having Airbus spokespeople say every thing is fine and on sched is having the Fox watch the Henhouse. Stay tuned. The problem will be fixed but the deadline is the Paris Airshow. Mark my(our)words!
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineCORULEZ05 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8277 times:

I seriously doubt Airbus engineers would finalize a project that had THIS many design flaws as it is being speculated. I mean, there might be little things here and there but NOTHING major.....this is a multi-billion dollar project, I can reassure you that they figured all of this out BEFORE the aircraft design was finalized and prototype built. So, I think all these "problems" are just BS intented to fuel rumors that the A380 will be a big failure.

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8237 times:

I have got the feeling that many journalists don´t understand how engineering works. They assume everything gets preplanned on the drawing board and then has to work as planned. They don´t understand things with many variables and the twiddling involved to get everything run smoothly. The A380 will have teething problems, like ANY other machine ever conceived, but I assume that the problems will be fixed.

Jan


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8019 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (reply 9):
As I reported a month or so ago, my sources tell me "Obese Albert" is overweight.
Airbus needs to shed about 3 to 5 thousand lbs(american).


If your "sources" (whomever they may be) are accurate, such news will not escape the radar of the "hatchet men" at SQ; who just love to reread their contacts. The woodshed at Changi always has an ample supply of sharp axes.  Laugh out loud


User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6025 times:

"My gut says this program becomes ever more "MD-11esque" as time passes."

So what did eventually become of MD-11 and how long did it take? I've been waiting for someone to sum it all up properly. Do I see my man here?

regards,
Eilennaei


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 5572 times:

Quoting Eilennaei (reply 13):
So what did eventually become of MD-11 and how long did it take? I've been waiting for someone to sum it all up properly. Do I see my man here?


 Confused Don't really understand your question.

Basically McDonnel Douglas, Airbus, and Boeing all recognized the need for a next-generation, 300-seat aircraft. MD thought the best strategy would be stretch the DC-10, fit performance-enhancing winglets, and fit new engines, beat Airbus/Boeing to the market, and thus have a successful airplane.

However, the intial performance of the MD-11 was very poor. The aircraft couldn't live up to range/payload estimations, which required unplanned stops and less revenue. Airlines were very unsatisfied, and despite a PIP to correct these problems, a huge blow came when SQ converted their order into A343.

When Boeing aquired MD, they axed the passenger MD-11 and continued selling the MD-11 as a freighter only. Eventually, they killed the entire line. Other than some frayed emotions to those who hold MD products near and dear... no big loss.


User currently offlineMilan320 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 869 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5214 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (reply 11):
I have got the feeling that many journalists don´t understand how engineering works. They assume everything gets preplanned on the drawing board and then has to work as planned. They don´t understand things with many variables and the twiddling involved to get everything run smoothly.


Very well said MD11Engineer. For anyone who has worked in engineering - any sort of engineering, then they should be familiar with the fact that all sorts of problems appear, especially near the end of a delivery (perhaps Murphy's Law  Wink/being sarcastic ). Given that the A380 has garnerd so much attention, especially in Europe, I'm not suprised that media turn to sensationalism - but that is to be expected.

/Milan320



I accept bribes ... :-)
User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5054 times:

However, the intial performance of the MD-11 was very poor. The aircraft couldn't live up to range/payload estimations, which required unplanned stops and less revenue. Airlines were very unsatisfied, and despite a PIP to correct these problems, a huge blow came when SQ converted their order into A343.

Yes, I know that bit by heart, almost. But what were those actual shortcomings in real numbers? And were the original specifications restored at some/one point? It seems so, but who has investigated into this? Nobody? People again repeating the same folklore stuff over & over again?

regards,
Eilennaei.


User currently offlineDeskPilot From Australia, joined Apr 2004, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4984 times:

I'm a project manager in IT. Although this relates to engineering of IT systems, I'm yet to work on a project yet that went smoothly from start to end. Regardless of the degree of planning (inc risk management), specifications, reviews, navel gazing, etc, there's always those moments when you discover something doesn't fit/work/meet the need and you experience that "oh my god, we left the baby on the bus !" moment.

After investigation, options reviews and further thinking, you work out a solution (with some possible expectation reset) and you're on your way again.

Can't see why engineering in any other field would be different.



By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4796 times:

Wow, something went wrong during testing... in related news, a cow in Wisconsin just said "moo". That's what tests are for: discovering flaws in the initial design of an aircraft!

As for the credibility of "Der Spiegel" when it comes to the A380: I also think it's quite low. Usually I love the paper, even have a subscription, but since it's made by "upper class" people from Hamburg and the Airbus facilities in Finkenwerder block upper-class people's views, they have been bashing the A380 just like Boeing did in its worst times.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4539 times:

Airbus Says A380 On Track, Denies Test Problems

February 21, 2005

European planemaker Airbus said the development of its A380 superjumbo remained on track and denied problems had been encountered during stress tests on the aircraft ahead of its first flight.

"The preliminary findings indicate we are moving in the right direction," said spokesman David Voskuhl on Monday. "No serious problems have been encountered."

Voskuhl added that Airbus was still aiming for the A380 to have its first flight towards the end of March, although he repeated previous guidance that the date could slip into April.

Germany's Der Spiegel magazine reported this weekend that engineers at Airbus encountered "unexpected and significant difficulties" with the rear end of the plane when tests were carried out on it.

The landing gear was also causing engineers concern, the magazine reported, adding that the A380's first flight could be delayed by weeks.

"We are not aware of the problems that the Spiegel is claiming," Voskuhl said

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1108980578.html



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4429 times:

Just curious, but what exactly do they mean "Rear End" tests?

KhenleyDIA



Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
User currently offlineDeskPilot From Australia, joined Apr 2004, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4205 times:

Quoting KhenleyDIA (reply 20):
Just curious, but what exactly do they mean "Rear End" tests?


It's called the Pinto test. Ensures it doesn't burst in flames if it's rear ended  Smile



By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21487 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4180 times:

DeskPilot: It's called the Pinto test. Ensures it doesn't burst in flames if it's rear ended

...but you bet your premiums will skyrocket if your A380 gets bumped...! Big grin


User currently offlineDeskPilot From Australia, joined Apr 2004, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Quoting Klaus (reply 22):
...but you bet your premiums will skyrocket if your A380 gets bumped...!


I don't get the joke  Sad



By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

This some how related , watching a discovery channel about one of Burt Rutan's project, one of his teams building a round the world acft for a single pilot during the weighing process the team made their goal of being 200 pounds under target. In this phase I guess it is always over but having a small team they are able to control facets of the design. The complexites of the 380 having thousands of engineers having differsnt imputs probably made this inevitable.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
25 Areopagus : Well, the first article cited in the basenote says that the Rear End Test shakes the rear end, and that unexpected and significant difficulties were
26 UAcsOKC : Quoting Klaus (reply 22): ...but you bet your premiums will skyrocket if your A380 gets bumped...! Quoting Deskpilot (reply 23) I don't get the joke R
27 Prebennorholm : Let's just wait and see if the "news" should show up in real news media, not just Der Spiegel. Der Spiegel can only print disasters and all other sort
28 Post contains images Klaus : Der Spiegel is pretty astute when it´s about political topics, they just suck at anything regarding aviation...
29 Post contains images DeskPilot : Yes, realised afterwards and I work in the general insurance industry too
30 Post contains images Klaus : DeskPilot: Yes, realised afterwards and I work in the general insurance industry too You were probably just reluctant to even consider having to regul
31 Sonic67 : Spiegel article translated: The grammar is not completely correct because of the translation. Airbus engineers fight allegedly with rough problems wit
32 Deskpilot : General Insurers in Aus don't write the regulations concering general insurance. That's done by the Prudential Authority (APRA). If you're talking ab
33 A350 : I like the expression "unexpected and significant difficulties". How can they discover expected difficulties? If they are already expected, the have p
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