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737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?  
User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2688 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6310 times:

I am not protesting against Boeing removing the eyebrow windows above the 737 cockpit...it gives it a bold new look. My question is why are they doing it?


Fly one thing; Fly it well
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6284 times:

Lots of threads on this subject in the database. Unfortunately search is seriously broke at the moment....

Basically it's a component that is no longer needed and which costs $$ to operate and maintain.


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6275 times:

I'm not sure I remember this but I think eyebrow windows can be used to take navigational fixes from stars (including the sun). This is not done much anymore.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6267 times:

Eyebrow windows existed, for the most part, for traffic avoidance. With TCAS, ADS-B and all the other enhancments made to aircraft to prevent collision, why bother? Windows are expensive and need to be maintained. It's easier to manufacture an airframe without windows than with.

User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6254 times:

That sounds more reasonably. But didn't jurassic jetliners have a navigator window in the cockpit roof?


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (reply 2):
I'm not sure I remember this but I think eyebrow windows can be used to take navigational fixes from stars (including the sun). This is not done much anymore.


I seriously doubt this as they distorted badly when looking through them at any angle other than 90o/90o/.

Early DC-9 had larger eyebrows, but they still had a provision to cut a periscope sextant into the cabin roof in the forward galley area. Some of them had a compass rose mounted on the fuselage frames in that area, hidden away above the headliner.

edit: Besides, the NG which do not have the eyebrows were designed in the GPS era. I doubt that anyone on the project was thinking celestial nav. The US Naval academy no longer even teaches it.

[Edited 2005-03-08 15:47:10]


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6165 times:

I just don't understand why the eyebrows weren't already eliminated at the beginning of the NG-series.

Will all new 737s be w/o eyebrows?

Greetings from Berlin

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6152 times:

The US Naval academy no longer even teaches it.

That's disgraceful. What will they do when asked to deploy in space, which might well happen within the careers of midshipmen today? No GPS in space (yet). Yes I am (half-) serious. Whew, had to get that off my chest Big grin


I just don't understand why the eyebrows weren't already eliminated at the beginning of the NG-series.

My guess is that in this, as in everything else, Boeing continues to be a very conservative airframe manufacturer.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineFlyer737sw From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6073 times:

I personally think the 73 looks better without them...Makes the plane look more stealth like...

Kevin


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2688 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5914 times:

Was glare another reason why the eyebrows were eliminated? Certainly less sunlight can enter the cockpit without the eyebrow windows...also does it save weight to remove the eyebrows?


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5841 times:



Quoting A350 (Reply 6):
Will all new 737s be w/o eyebrows?

From this point forward, yes. They will not have the eyebrows.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4315 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5827 times:

I read a while back that pilots like the eyebrow windows as it gives them a view on steep banks while in a decent, e.g., turning short final.


I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5791 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 11):
I read a while back that pilots like the eyebrow windows as it gives them a view on steep banks while in a decent, e.g., turning short final.

I've heard the same from 717 and 737 pilots.


I'm still waiting to hear if the lack of eyebrow windows reduces the noise level in the cockpit, and if so, how much.


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5788 times:

>>>I'm still waiting to hear if the lack of eyebrow windows reduces the noise level in the cockpit, and if so, how much.

In all, I've spoken with 6 different pilots who have flown N201WN, N202SW, or N203SW, and they have all said the cockpit is indeed quieter. It's not the lack of eyebrow windows that does it, it's the addition of the 10 vortex generators that they added on these aircraft, just aft of where the radome meets the fuselage...


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5783 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR

Thanks, OPNLguy! Do you know if operators will be given the option to add the vortex generators to their existing 737's?


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5776 times:

>>>Do you know if operators will be given the option to add the vortex generators to their existing 737's?

From what I've heard, yes (and kits for plugging the eyebrow windows as well), but since these are not "revenue-producing" enhancements, I don't think there will be alot of demand for them until industry conditions improve...


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5775 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Maybe the pilots will each chip in $50 for a quieter work environment...  biggrin 


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5769 times:

>>>Maybe the pilots will each chip in $50 for a quieter work environment...

$50 times 5,000 pilots is only $250,000, which would maybe do a handful (or two) of aircraft, versus the 425 aircraft fleet. Maybe $50 per month?  Wink


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2688 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5736 times:

Wait..OPNL guy, is the first 737 with eyebrow windows N201WN, or N201LV....I'm really confused because I've heard it called by both registrations


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5730 times:

read a while back that pilots like the eyebrow windows as it gives them a view on steep banks while in a decent, e.g., turning short final.

If you are seeing the runway from your eyebrow window in a turn to window ;you've already overshooted it.Its not a proper way to turn finals.Besides there are sunshades and various other sunblocking materials stuck in it which makes it imposibble to see from that windows anyway.



Widen your world
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

>>>Wait..OPNL guy, is the first 737 with eyebrow windows N201WN, or N201LV

It was first referred to internally (incorrecty) as "WN" and it is indeed a "LV". The norm here is "SW", followed by "WN" and then other little oddballs, and I forgot this was one of those...  embarrassed 


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4770 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5664 times:
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After about a month of some very patient waiting on my part, I FINALLY saw N201LV. Not only that, but N202WN came in shortly after. I finally got my pics of eye-brow-less 737s. Big grin I will upload them shortly...hopefully they get through.

I must say they do look sharp without them.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

Quoting A350 (Reply 6):
ill all new 737s be w/o eyebrows

Yes Since they have started production minus the Eyebrow windows.

Quoting Thrust (Reply 9):
Certainly less sunlight can enter the cockpit without the eyebrow windows...

Yes that would be a relief,less use of Newspapers  Smile

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 12):
I'm still waiting to hear if the lack of eyebrow windows reduces the noise level in the cockpit, and if so, how much.

I dont think it would.Although the reports of Pilots as per posts say they do.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):
it's the addition of the 10 vortex generators that they added on these aircraft

Why exactly were these Vortex generators installed & why optional.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):
it's the addition of the 10 vortex generators that they added on these aircraft

Why exactly were these Vortex generators installed & why optional.

They were added to re-direct airflow and reduce cockpit noise, and they seem to do just that. They are now standard equipment on the NGs (along with the lack of eyebrow windows). Reportly, kits will be available (at some point) to add vortex generators to those that don't have them, and plug existing eyebrow windows, but I haven't heard when.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5526 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 23):
Reportly, kits will be available (at some point) to add vortex generators to those that don't have them, and plug existing eyebrow windows, but I haven't heard when.

Are these kits compatiable for the classics too.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 OPNLguy : I would assume so, since it's a pretty low-tech modification installation-wise, but we'll have to wait and see....
26 HAWK21M : Can anyone confirm if the Eyebrow blankings + Vortex Generators kit are Available on the Classics. regds MEL
27 Jetlagged : Nice Boeing is reducing the noise for the drivers. Wish they'd do something to reduce the noise in the cabin of the NG for us self loading cargo. The
28 Post contains images HAWK21M : Thats where cargo is so Peaceful. regds MEL
29 KIGuy52 : Probably the same reason they no longer put ashtrays in most new cars. It's cheaper. The manufacturers say it's because nowdays most people don't smok
30 FlyingTexan : Ahh, those good ole unintended consequences. Just like using eyebrow windows for paperwork storage. I saw the front of N201LV the other day, did a do
31 HAWK21M : Any news on Blankings Available to replace the #4 & 5 windows [Eyebrow Windows]. regds MEL
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