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Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?  
User currently offlineSkywatch From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 923 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5595 times:

I keep a pretty close eye on air traffic over my house. I noticed that just about every airline that flies over (American, Southwest, ASA, Skywest, Frontier, FedEx, and Airborne) do not have their tail logo lights on. Because of this, only the front half of the plane is illuminated. However, Continental from EWR flew over last night, and he had his logo lights on. The entire aircraft was lit up. What is the reason for some airlines using these lights, and some not?


------Forever Watchin' The Sky------
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBRAVO7E7 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1840 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

I believe some airlines dont use them to save money.

User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5427 times:

It is up to the pilot when the tail light is on or off. What altitude were the planes flying at? I have noticed that they tend to be turned off at around 10,000 feet or so.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5366 times:

The tail lights are most useful on the ground so the tower and other pilots can see the type of plane. Otherwise they are pretty useless. I have never seen a Southwest with the tail light on.

User currently offlineSkywatch From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 923 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5339 times:

These aircraft that I am referring to are at 5000ft. or so. Usually ten minutes outside of the airport(AUS).


------Forever Watchin' The Sky------
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

Several reasons.....many newer aircraft do not have them installed, or they have been removed and many airlines do not turn them on until on the ground.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineFlyer737sw From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5334 times:

Thats interesting...Almost every 737-NG that comes into SJC has there tail light on...Ever since that last thread regarding this issue, it seemed that more pilots are using the lights...Still haven't seen a 300 with them on though...

Kevin


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5313 times:

If they are installed they´ll have to be servicable or deferred with a time limit as per MEL. Now getting up there to change a light bulb typically requires a cherry picker (access is often from the bottom of the horizontal stab, exception B737 with the logo lights in the wing tips). So they create some maintenance issues. As a result masny airlines decide to deactivate them permanently and removing them from the MEL.

Jan


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

At SQ, the SOP for logo lights is they're turned off during the climb passing 10,000' and on the descent turned on as you're descending through 10,000'.

And MD11Engineer is certainly correct about MEL relief if the logo lights are u/s. At SQ, they're generally serviced when the aircraft passes through SIN.


User currently offlineDAirbus From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 593 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5282 times:
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ASA deactivated the logo lights on their CRJ's for maintenance reasons as MD11Engineer mentioned. They are located on the engine strut and vibration from the engine made the bulbs burn out on a regular basis.


"I love mankind. It's people I can't stand." - Charles Shultz
User currently offlineAirgeek12 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days ago) and read 5249 times:

Most likely to save power/money or something. I would imagine once they get above FL100 or something they would shut it off since no one's going to be seeing it anyways.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days ago) and read 5246 times:

How Reliable are these logo lights,from frequent Alignment/Fusing problems.
Secondly the logo lts can be C/F under MEL.
Thirdly it would be more noticeable on the Grd or at a lower Altitude.
I think most Airlines want to save Money & hence opt out of the Logo light & its support equipment.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAvionicMech From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 315 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5103 times:

Logo lights getting deferred.  Big grin You must be having a laugh, whenever we get an aircraft in the hangar there is quite often 4 burnt out logo lights with no sign of anything in the tech log. This is mainly because it is not an important part and I think the MEL only gives a 10 day restriction which could be a bit tight, so they are usually seen to be working when on the line. The trouble with the 757/767 is that the logo light filaments are replaced from on top of the stab which is even worse than on the 737NG which is from a panel underneath the stab.

User currently offlineCheekie747girl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

Quoting AvionicMech (Reply 12):
Logo lights getting deferred

I whole-heartedly agree! They are nasty and time consuming things to change, fortunately on more than a 10 day interval for my company!! (and are usually deffered to the safer confines of the hangar).

They are not so bad however on a bright sunny day when time is not an issue, and one can catch a few rays and admire the unique view from the stab  Cool


User currently offlineTroubleshooter From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 423 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4973 times:

On the ERJ, I work on, it´s a MEL D item. So we have up to 120 days to fix it. Its a real sh!t. I believe first the took the lamp, then they installed the two wires and then the horizontal stabilizer was riveted around. You need a gynaecologists fingers to attach the wires to the lamp.   

[Edited 2005-03-22 07:12:45]


This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
User currently offlineAvionicMech From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 315 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

I am pretty certain our aircraft aren't on a 10 day restriction to be honest but I am sure it is less than 120 days but I don't know for sure without looking it up.

On the 757/767 they are easy to change apart from when the terminals fall off in your hand due to corrosion and need a new one crimped on which means a trip down to get the terminals and tools needed then back up again to cut your hands on all the broken glass from previous filaments that have cracked and fallen apart.  Angry


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4903 times:

We had logo lights on our 737-800 when we first got them. However as time went on they started to become a pain and the decision was made to deactivate the system. Can't say that I miss changing those lights out.

User currently offlineAvionicMech From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 315 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4894 times:

I am actually the opposite to you LMP as I find the logo lights really easy to change on the -800 as you can get to them from underneath the stab and there is only two to burn out as opposed to 4 on the 757/767. Also with them being halogen filaments on the -800 as opposed to regular sealed beam lamps they dont seem to burn out as much.

Now the worst lights to change have to be the red and the green nav lights on a -800 with winglets as you have to remove the whole of the lens assembly which is held in with quite a few screws. It is such a pain to do that the AMM actually recommends changing both filaments while you have it out. This is only the aircraft fitted with Aviation Partners Boeing winglets as I have never worked on one with the Boeing factory fit winglets but I doubt they are very much better.


User currently offlineAogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 4836 times:

5X deactivated logo lights because they were a pain in the butt and they cost too much money with no return.

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 4834 times:

I just love the jokers who on big checks put sealant around the access panels for nav lights!  Angry
I think they are the same guys who force all these panel screws with the worn recess back in! $$%&§

Most nav light repairs on the 727 are very easy:

You are sitting in your truck, waiting for departure. The F/E comes back from his walkaround and tells you that a wing tip nav light isn´t working. You ask him to show you which and walk with him to the offending light. There you´ll take the rubber traffic cone from the tarmac under the wing tip and give the wingtip a good whack with it, and enjoy the shocked look on the F/E´s face. And ... Bingo, the light is on again. Big grin
The reason is that the contacts in the lightbulb fitting tend to oxydise on this design. The vibrations from the whack break down the oxyde layer and the current can flow again!
Only if the whack doesn´t help you´ll get out the ladder and the screw driver to change the bulb. In 99% of all cases it is then at fault (burned through), in the one percent left, it is the lightbulb fitting.

Jan


User currently offlineSkywatch From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 923 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4823 times:

MD11Engineer: I like that remedy! BEFORE all else fails, give it a nice whack!


------Forever Watchin' The Sky------
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
. There you´ll take the rubber traffic cone from the tarmac under the wing tip and give the wingtip a good whack with it, and enjoy the shocked look on the F/E´s face. And ... Bingo, the light is on again

I guess Its very common & Effective  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTroubleshooter From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 423 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
There you´ll take the rubber traffic cone from the tarmac under the wing tip and give the wingtip a good whack with it

The same applies to the BAe146/RJ. I call it the "standby function"...  banghead 



This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2614 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

I can see the log book entry now; 'Malletized light assy. Ops chk good.' On a serious note, the Logo lights are also pretty expensive bulbs, which is another factor in removing them.

User currently offlineAmtrosie From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

On my corporate 737-200. The Big Boss loves them on/working,while the whole flight dept. doesn't. The locals have already taken some shots at us with a shotgun when we come in late(r) at night. We even had one drunk redneck show up at the airport waving his shotgun around!! Whoever said this job was boring?

25 LMP737 : Changing them out is not that big a deal. It's just having to grab a maintenance stand and then hoping the guy who changed it out before you did not
26 Post contains images FLY2HMO : AM and MX certainly love love to show off their asses. I've never seen them fly with their logo lights of below 10000ft. Heck, I think their being kin
27 Post contains images HAWK21M : Which place is this. Afghanistan Whats the Corporate B732 look like from Inside. regds MEL
28 Post contains images HAWK21M : Which place is this. Afghanistan Whats the Corporate B732 look like from Inside. regds MEL
29 L-188 : I didn't know Wal-mart had a corperate airplane.
30 MD11Engineer : Walmart has a whole fleet of aicraft, operated like an airline. Jan
31 AvionicMech : Well I guess that is the advantage of still living in the cocoon of the cozy warm hangar as opposed to the ramp, we have mobile platforms and air pow
32 CRJ200Mechanic : Have had to do that several times. The lower tail nav light on the CRJ is notorious for going out. If it has been changed before and the cover doesn'
33 Post contains images LMP737 : You haven't lived until you have had to push a work stand through a foot of snow at 2:00AM.
34 Amtrosie : Hawk, No not Afghanistan, and am glad it isn't. Hats off to those over in that part of the world though. The interior is full corporate, 28 pax max, w
35 HAWK21M : Amtrosie......Any Pics. regds MEL
36 Ba299 : At BA we use logo lights when we are on the ground to show that "the speedbirds are here"... In some airspace (such as gulf area) we turn on it as req
37 Post contains images AvionicMech : Well in that case LMP737, I don't think I really want to live. That is one big advantage of living in the UK though, that is that we don't get as muc
38 Post contains links and images Amtrosie : Hawk, There are some pics in this photo data base. I will try to show them...computers still throw me spinning. View Large View MediumPhoto © Eur
39 Post contains images HAWK21M : Thanks for the Pics.But I was talking about Interiors/Cabin etc. regds MEL
40 Amtrosie : Nothing from me. I am not that technologically advanced. However, the fact that $11.0 million was spent on the interior, gives you an idea. It rivals
41 Post contains links Accidentally : How's this? http://www.williegary.com/plane.html
42 Accidentally : Gary Unveils Newest Member of His Law Firm’s Fleet – Custom 32-passenger Boeing 737 Willie E. Gary unveiled the newest member of his air fleet –
43 Post contains images HAWK21M : Fantastic Interiors Looks good. regds MEL
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