Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4013 times:
Hello everyone!
I'm currently in the process of deciding whether or not I should start flight training, with the final aim being an ATPL (JAA). After Lufthansa didn't think I'd be a good enough employee - in brief words, they think I'm too calm and not ambitious enough - I'm now on the lookout for my way to become a pilot. After passing all basic knowledge and abilities tests for the LH pilot trainee scheme, I do think I have what it takes; and I do think I'll be able to go all that long way.
Now on to my humble request: Pilot Training in Germany is very expensive. Since a PPL (FAA) seems to be relatively easily transferable to a JAA one and a fellow student mentioned he was considering going to the US for pilot training, I'm thinking about doing just the same, mainly to save several thousand Euros.
So far, I have talked to a few people who did all their training at German schools and would like to get some first-hand stories, recommendations, reviews or whatever you may want to help me with from pilots who got their PPLs at US flight schools. Anything is very welcome, however it would be great if I could also get some recommendations on suitable flight schools.
I've searched the forum for some info, but the threads I found were either too specific for my needs or about later stages of training.
Thanks a lot in advance and best regards,
aloges
Edit: title changed
[Edited 2005-03-28 03:09:49]
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
FlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6297 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3895 times:
Well I not sure about going to the US for training. Do you just want to do you PPL only in the USS or all the way up to commercial?
There are many flight schools the one I like the most is ATP flight school. I dont really have much information. Sure there will be some more coming by the commercial pilots.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7598 posts, RR: 40 Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3856 times:
Aloges,
Hi! Be very, very careful if you are planning to do your training in the US and go back to Germany to work because the Luftfahrt Bundesamt may not accept it (your license) unless you actually have 1000 hours of actual commercial time.
Back in 1999, I had my PPL and was working on my CPL here in Canada, I had a job possibility in Germany and did my research if the Canadian CPL was accepted in Europe. They'll only accept foreign license 1:1, if you have 1000 commercial hours, otherwise you have to take the schooling in Europe.
The LBA wouldn't even accept my Canadian Radio license under the reasoning that they didn't think I could speak English... ..,right!
So your best bet would be to contact the LBA and ask them what the deal is.
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3822 times:
Thank you, Patrick. The problem you described is exactly why the only licence I'm looking at getting in the US is a PPL. The heads up as for the LBA is much appreciated, info on the issue can't be more first-hand.
Off topic: Pardon my indiscretion, but what was the job you were offered?
Anyone with some flight training experience?
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7598 posts, RR: 40 Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3810 times:
Quoting Aloges (Reply 5): Pardon my indiscretion, but what was the job you were offered?
Hello again. I was offered a job from a small charter company flying Citations throughout Europe. I can't say the name of the company but they were based out of DUS. They went bankrupt in 2000.
As far as my license is concerned, the LBA wouldn't even accept my PPL. I also know a few people in Germany who did their PPL's in the US and they are only allowed to fly US registered a/c in Germany, no D registered a/c.
I always wondered how LH does it with their school in Arizona. I went down there in 1996 to talk to them, and they said even they've had problems with the LBA. They also offer training (or at least they used to) even if you don't belong to LH, so you might want to check them out as well. I think that they're called Arizona Flight Training and based at Ryan airfield just outside of Tuscon. I've tried to find a web link but haven't seen one yet.
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3802 times:
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 6): They also offer training (or at least they used to) even if you don't belong to LH, so you might want to check them out as well. I think that they're called Arizona Flight Training and based at Ryan airfield just outside of Tuscon. I've tried to find a web link but haven't seen one yet.
One thing I was looking into is getting my PPL in the US, transcribing it (after double, triple and quadruple checking it with the LBA) and doing the "rest" of my training at InterCockpit, a flight school owned by Lufthansa Flight Training. They offer "ab initio" training and training for PPL owners; however, you need 80 hours for the latter. The price difference is about €20.000... sheesh.
Thanks for the name (Arizona FT), I'll try to find some info on that.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7598 posts, RR: 40 Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3796 times:
Quoting Aloges (Reply 7): and doing the "rest" of my training at InterCockpit, a flight school owned by Lufthansa Flight Training
Is that the school in Bremen? I remember watching the Stern Reportagen about the LH school in Arizona and Bremen. The one student finished the course and at age 23 was F/O in a A320, pretty well unheard of on this side of the atlantic.
Quoting Aloges (Reply 7): The price difference is about €20.000... sheesh.
When I was doing my CPL in Germany at VHM, the ground school alone cost me more then my PPL did in Canada, it was about DM 10,000! All in all it would have costed my well over DM 50,000 to finish it there!
Bri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3777 times:
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7598 posts, RR: 40 Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3776 times:
Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 9): I'm curious why, if you never worked for the company, and they are no longer in business, you can't say the name of the company?
I never said that I didn't work for the company. The reason why I choose not to name the company is for personal reasons. That's my business and no one else's.
Pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3082 posts, RR: 12 Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3769 times:
Aloges,
Based on your age, you might want to look at some universities here in the states as well. Perhaps getting a degree would help your career too. It's almost indispensible here in the States these days and you might be eligible for scholarships and grants that could help finance your training.
I am very unfamiliar with European aviation in general but I thought that I might suggest this route. I'm currently working on my CFI and about to graduate in June from St. Louis University with a degree in Aeronautics. We're also starting to see the industry turn up from the post 9/11 funk it's been in. Jobs are starting to become available and I have seen numerous ads for instructors that are fluent in languages outside of English. I don't know if the JAA considers instructing commercial time, but you need a Comm rating to get your CFI here in the states and it is for-hire flying.
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3756 times:
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 8): Is that the school in Bremen? I remember watching the Stern Reportagen about the LH school in Arizona and Bremen. The one student finished the course and at age 23 was F/O in a A320, pretty well unheard of on this side of the atlantic.
It's a bit complicated since LH sort of has two schools: one for the trainee pilots they plan on emplyoing later on (and who they help a lot financially) and one for the free market. The former is in Bremen and initial flight training is done in Goodyear, Arizona. The latter is in Frankfurt, right at the airport, and a lot if not all flight training is done in Zadar, Croatia.
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 8): When I was doing my CPL in Germany at VHM, the ground school alone cost me more then my PPL did in Canada, it was about DM 10,000! All in all it would have costed my well over DM 50,000 to finish it there!
The one bright spot is that if you're a little bit lucky, you'll earn enough as a pilot in Europe so the payments on the loan won't hurt too much.
Based on your age, you might want to look at some universities here in the states as well. Perhaps getting a degree would help your career too. It's almost indispensible here in the States these days and you might be eligible for scholarships and grants that could help finance your training.
Hm, scholarships... never thought about those. Any info you can recommend?
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Saintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3673 times:
Aloges,
I would recomend the US way for getting your PPL. I did it about 11 years ago and did an intensive course in just 3 weeks. I was fortunate enough to have an aviation background which really helped and the hardest part was studying for the exam. You can start studying before you go which will save you time.
The main reason for going was cost, even with flights, accomodation, food and car hire etc it was a signifficant saving compared to learning in the UK. The other big advantage was the weather. I lost maybe a couple of days because it was unsuitable. I doubt you would be that lucky in Germany.
It is also easier to fly in the States. There are loads of airfields, nav aids etc and the roads are big making navigation easy (even the back roads stand out like the autobahns).
I chose a place near Fort Worth, though I'm not sure they still teach. Research where and when you want to go (thinking about the weather) and when you narrow your choices down phone them and ask if they have had any foreign students, particularly German, and ask if they mind you contacting them to see how they got on. If the school is any good they won't mind at all.
If you are going to give it a go, make sure you allow yourself a reasonable amount of time to complete the course in as you don't want to have to go back to finish it off. I would think that 6 weeks would be sufficient if you are doing it full time. Another tip is to persuade a friend to learn at the same time. You split the costs and have someone to compare you experiences and problems with.
I no longer fly (new wife and kids put paid to that) so I am not up to date with legislation and particularly with the new EASA regulations, but I understood that the licence was tranferable provided you took the local airlaw exams. Look on the EASA web site for help or give them a call.
APFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3652 times:
Tons of people from Europe come here to APF to do their flight training. The major schools at the field are London Aviation, Naples Air Center (where Michael Schumacher did his training) and Europe American. I do all of my flying out of Europe American and I highly recommend them. The owner is a former German Airforce Pilot and all of the Planes at EAA are in excellent shape with high quality instructors. Their website is in German and English and is www.eaa-fly.com
MidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 16 Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3645 times:
Jonty From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3639 times:
Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 11): Based on your age, you might want to look at some universities here in the states as well. Perhaps getting a degree would help your career too. It's almost indispensible here in the States these days and you might be eligible for scholarships and grants that could help finance your training.
that might be a bit expensive as universities in America are a lot more expensive than those in Europe, or those in England at least! And its quite hard to get a visa as well - you have to have loads of guaranteed funds with you and stuff!
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From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6297 posts, 
From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7598 posts, 
Be very, very careful if you are planning to do your training in the US and go back to Germany to work because the Luftfahrt Bundesamt may not accept it (your license) unless you actually have 1000 hours of actual commercial time.
..,right!
The one bright spot is that if you're a little bit lucky, you'll earn enough as a pilot in Europe so the payments on the loan won't hurt too much.
From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, 
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